They don’t even all believe the same thing. You have people who claim to represent BLM being pissed off about those components.
This is akin to saying everyone in the tea party supports white nationalism because some of them do. And they flipped the fuck out when people made that argument but now want to make the same argument. They didn’t want people painting with a big brush then but have no problems doing it now. And it’s apparently wide enough that anyone who doesn’t vote for Trump is a Marxist.
I didn’t go to any protests or anything because I have been slammed at work and with the kid. But I know people who went and many of them are about as far from Marxists as you could be. Hell a lot of them were probably people who voted for Trump (they may not this time) and many of them are diehard second amendment types.
This is where you and I fundamentally disagree. I lump Marxism into the same trashbin of ideas as fascism, Nazi-ism, communism, theocratic dictatorships and cults. CULTS ESPECIALLY.
Black lives matter is a sentence that is an obvious truth. The only people who disagree are few in number and politically neutered KKK members and their ilk.
Black Lives Matter is an openly Marxist movement that has given me no indication to believe that they will improve anyone’s lives at all. They reek of lies. They cynically exploit the good intentions of good people to sow division and chaos, wrapped up in the fear of consequences for disagreement. They are popular. Very popular.
Tough titties if you don’t like being called out on emboldening Marxists to step out of the shadows and act. You pretend it is somehow benign, but these ideas don’t belong in American society any more than the KKK’s do.
But that’s not what is meant by a lot of people when they say black lives matter. It’s not what’s meant by the vast majority of protestors. Organizers of protests and groups from around the world have said they are apart of something and it’s been largely decentralized. They don’t agree on much but many use the same phrase. Many of the things people have called for are typical conservative views actually. I’ve posted some of them. Is the Cato institute Marxist? How about the Republicans in these polls? How about all those people?
What about the Republicans calling for police reform at the national level? Are they Marxists?
You can rail against Trump and some of it l can agree to.
I don’t see his overreach even one iota different than Obama.
But rule of law - Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, Nadler, diehard activist judges going up to USSC? These clowns along with Dem mayors and governors exemplify following the Constitution to you?
And they are somehow worse than GOP???
I have voiced it here before, being right of GOP sure doesn’t make me leapfrog them to support a Dem party that has surged towards as far left as possible. Trump or no Trump.
This viewpoint is one l can’t comprehend, anymore than my parents espousing ridicule for 90% of Dem/Libs platform and then supporting straight ticket and $ donations (inc bumper stickers calling for organize and resist gop) for Dems.
I understand what you are saying completely, which is why BLM is such a steaming pile of horse shit. They are openly Marxist. I looked at their website circa 2015 and it was blatantly Marxist. They’ve cleaned it up a bit since then but the ideas are all still there, and the founder is on camera saying she’s a trained Marxist. Their nonsense policy positions and vague, impossible-to-argue-against goals should be another good clue.
They know most people don’t know anything about that, so they ride the wave of virtue signalling and everyone’s desperate attempts to show what an ally they are. And then just like that, their policies are implemented in major ways in major cities.
What’s next? Who knows?
There’s an argument to be made that fear of consequences from Marxists shape the behavior of even republicans, yes.
To be clear, nobody is against the general notion of reforming police. There’s a difference between that, and getting rid of them. You also need to consider that in addition to the policy changes being advanced, the police have been subjected to all kinds of attacks by Marxists, yes Marxists for some time now. Ridiculous notions like decriminalizing violent crime and limiting police powers have been underway for years now, with no good outcomes to show for any of it by any measure you can imagine.
“But we meant well!!”, shrieked the Marxists who didn’t know they were Marxists.
That’s fine and now you’re talking about a specific group of people. But just because we had chapters of the Tea Party that were white supremacists it would be a mistake to say the Tea Party movement consists of white supremacists only. While an “official” BLM founder or group may be Marxist it’s a huge mistake to say that people who support the black lives matter movement are Marxist.
Because if so a lot of Republicans and a ton of Americans became Marxist overnight. Voting for Joe Biden doesn’t make anyone a Marxist. Neither does saying black lives matter or attending a black lives matter rally. Neither does the Cato Institute calling for police reform. Nor the GOP pushing a reform bill.
Agree completely. That’s actually a major consideration for me at this point, where we have successfully alienated allies and basically just fucked around.
Nope. You don’t get a pass on that, not when radical policy changes are being implemented in the USA.
Imagine the KKK changes it’s name to “All Lives Matter” and advocated for exactly the same policies as BLM. Most notably, that police in black neighborhoods should be de-funded and the black nuclear family dismantled and discouraged. Violent mobs have made this demand clear, and the mayors literally kneeled in front of the mob before getting the police de-funding policy implemented immediately, with no meaningful feedback from the public.
This is in addition to demoralizing the police in many other ways throughout these events.
Would you still say that…
“While an “official” ALM founder or member may be a KKK member, it’s a huge mistake to say that people who support the all lives matter movement are KKK members.”
You don’t even know what it means. It’s a new catchphrase you picked up from the propaganda fever swamps.
Hehe, you definitely don’t have credibility to say cults are a bad thing.
You missed the point. You don’t think they’re going to accomplish their goal, ok, but it is their goal good and decent? Ending discrimination against blacks (which exists) and police brutality (which exists)? Again, their goal is worthy. So, they get a hearing at the table.
If you can’t see the substantive difference between the core goal of BLM (misguided as their strategy and tactics are) and the core goal of the KKK, you’re beyond help. You’re immune to reason, and your thoughts are made for you by someone else.
This is classic Marxist playbook. I’m not calling you a Marxist, by the way. I’m just pointing out where your Critical Theory arose from.
Avoid any and all discussion of policy details. Characterize your opponent as some sort of uncaring demon at worst, oblivious simpleton at best. No matter what, don’t get into any of actual the policy outcomes. Focus on the sloganeering and good intentions of your supporters.
Don’t get into the details, which are published in English, plain to see and woven around a false narrative of easily dis-proven lies.
You also missed a key part of my thought experiment. The core goals of the KKK and BLM are the same. The KKK, in my thought experiment, wants to defund the police in black neighborhoods and eliminate the black nuclear family, which seem like exactly the kind of policy goals you’d expect the KKK to favor.
Are those worthy goals as long as you call yourselves “Black Lives Matter”?
Two things. First, BLM the organization is not good at the core as far as I am concerned, while BLM the movement is. Second, most terrible political movements in history started because someone had a good goal or intention and chose bad means of trying to accomplish it. Then either they turned bad or actual bad people took over
So you went from agreeing with me back to “no we need to lump massive amounts of people into this” pretty quickly. Are we back to being Marxist’s if we vote against Trump already?
Dude, I’ve known of and rebutted Critical Race theory years before you learned of the term on the internet. Can it.
Nonsense - every time I’ve tried to get you into a conversation on policy details, the dog suddenly ate your homework or you don’t have Twitter or you haven’t read about that yet. I want to discuss what Trump is doing re: economy or DOJ, and you’ve tucked tail an ran. Spare me.
Re: BLM, from your link:
Every day, we recommit to healing ourselves and each other, and to co-creating alongside comrades, allies, and family a culture where each person feels seen, heard, and supported.
We acknowledge, respect, and celebrate differences and commonalities.
We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.
Heh. Yeah, just like the KKK!
The organization is radical, I’ve never said otherwise, but I’ll say it louder for those in the back: they want to tackle a real problem in society. They’re dumb, they’re naive, they’re radical - but they arent evil. The KKK?
They aren’t tackling any issue in society. They’re evil and want their version of evil perpetuated.
That’s where I’m worried we’re headed. It’s July 5, so lots of time to see what happens next with our budding Marxist revolution and examine some of the outcomes that get left in its woke. I mean wake.
The fact that people don’t find Marxist lines of thought just as alarming as Nazi lines of thought or military dictatorship lines of thought is very alarming to me.
You can’t even play along in a make-believe thought experiment without pretending that I’m making a statement about reality, and not the thought experiment I was just explaining in English?
I agree mostly, and great point about even the best intentions can lead to a bad path. And that’s perfectly fine to point out re: BLM. But that’s a world of difference from the KKK, which have no good intentions to start with that can go down an accidental bad path.
Twojarslave is attemtping an outrageous moral equivalency that doesnt exist.
Yes, really. I’m continuing to make my point about Means/Ends, and highlighting what BLM has to say about their Ends refutes your flimsy attempt to equate BLM and the KKK.
That’s fine. You aren’t worried about the plethora of items I listed about the actual President of the United States and what he’s said and done and I am. So maybe we see things a bit differently. I’m actually against both and not just one.
Because it’s not a Marxist line of thought to say Biden’s best argument is not being Trump. You’ve got to really leap to do that or be convinced that everything you disagree with is Marxist. Which right now is where you’re at. You weren’t a few months ago. You just wanted to defend Trump. Now Marxism is a keyboard shortcut for you.
The second part is a bit amusing when the actual President just had a bunch of people hit with flash bangs and tear gas so he could have a photo op and has a long history of threatening military force and using violence.
But maybe that’s just the Marxist in me for opposing him.
Ha ha. That’s the spirit! A little self-examination.
Marxist thinking is not just “criticism”. Marxist thinking, among many other things, is when you compare a real world outcome to utopia and conclude that this or that policy will somehow produce the desired outcome. You don’t have any evidence for this, but you say it because people will believe you and vote for you. In fact, you may believe you. Rinse, repeat.
There’s a lot more to it than that, but that’s the easy part and that’s what they hooked me on. I felt like I was smarter than the average bear because I knew all about Dick Cheney’s corporate history and all of his buddies too. Then the greedy motherfucker went and shot a guy in the face, who then apologized to Dick Cheney for being in the way of Dick Cheney’s gunblast. All of the lies into the Iraq war, around 9/11, Haliburton, you-name-it, there was a lot of stuff to be deeply upset about. I was.
It is something I’ll be connecting ideas to more often, now that it is clear we’re in some early stages of a Marxist revolution.