[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
This kind of arguing–“I’ve never been to China so how should I know whether it’s free or not!” [/quote]
That is definitely not what I said. I said I have no idea how tyrannical it is compared to the U.S. I KNOW, without a doubt, that China is not free.[/quote]
Sub that in then. Point stands like a dick on Viagra.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
This kind of arguing–“I’ve never been to China so how should I know whether it’s free or not!” (which is related to such drivel as “I’ve never been in a holocaust so I won’t pass judgement” and “I’ve never met Hitler so who am I to say?”)–is where I opt out. It’s fatuous last-ditch stuff. You haven’t been there? Read some words about it. I know with utter certainty that you have opinions and beliefs about places to which you’ve never been and people whom you’ve never met–the Founding Fathers, Somalia–because I’ve read things you wrote about them.
Here’s how it goes:
Nick, do you have an opinion on Adolf Hitler and/or Joseph Stalin?
–“Yes.”
Did you ever meet them?
–“No.”
How can you form an opinion of them?
–“Things I read.”
That’s the only way for that conversation to go. So it’s simple: take that and apply it to China. Then come back to the thread once you’ve got something of substance to say.[/quote]
Exactly the point I was making.[/quote]
Yep, exactly. If you don’t know about China because you jist havent been round dem parts, then neither do you know anything about any other place in the universe to which you’ve never been, or anybody whom you’ve never met, etc.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
This kind of arguing–“I’ve never been to China so how should I know whether it’s free or not!” (which is related to such drivel as “I’ve never been in a holocaust so I won’t pass judgement” and “I’ve never met Hitler so who am I to say?”)–is where I opt out. It’s fatuous last-ditch stuff. You haven’t been there? Read some words about it. I know with utter certainty that you have opinions and beliefs about places to which you’ve never been and people whom you’ve never met–the Founding Fathers, Somalia–because I’ve read things you wrote about them.
Here’s how it goes:
Nick, do you have an opinion on Adolf Hitler and/or Joseph Stalin?
–“Yes.”
Did you ever meet them?
–“No.”
How can you form an opinion of them?
–“Things I read.”
That’s the only way for that conversation to go. So it’s simple: take that and apply it to China. Then come back to the thread once you’ve got something of substance to say.[/quote]
Exactly the point I was making.[/quote]
Yep, exactly. If you don’t know about China because you jist havent been round dem parts, then neither do you know anything about any other place in the universe to which you’ve never been, or anybody whom you’ve never met, etc. [/quote]
Yeah there is a logical fallacy going on here. You never met Hitler, how could you know he was a sob? You never been to an active warzone, how could you know it’s dangerous?
Which logical fallacy is it? 
[quote]NickViar wrote:
there are minute differences between communities and states.[/quote]
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
This kind of arguing–“I’ve never been to China so how should I know whether it’s free or not!” (which is related to such drivel as “I’ve never been in a holocaust so I won’t pass judgement” and “I’ve never met Hitler so who am I to say?”)–is where I opt out. It’s fatuous last-ditch stuff. You haven’t been there? Read some words about it. I know with utter certainty that you have opinions and beliefs about places to which you’ve never been and people whom you’ve never met–the Founding Fathers, Somalia–because I’ve read things you wrote about them.
Here’s how it goes:
Nick, do you have an opinion on Adolf Hitler and/or Joseph Stalin?
–“Yes.”
Did you ever meet them?
–“No.”
How can you form an opinion of them?
–“Things I read.”
That’s the only way for that conversation to go. So it’s simple: take that and apply it to China. Then come back to the thread once you’ve got something of substance to say.[/quote]
Exactly the point I was making.[/quote]
Yep, exactly. If you don’t know about China because you jist havent been round dem parts, then neither do you know anything about any other place in the universe to which you’ve never been, or anybody whom you’ve never met, etc. [/quote]
Yeah there is a logical fallacy going on here. You never met Hitler, how could you know he was a sob? You never been to an active warzone, how could you know it’s dangerous?
Which logical fallacy is it?
[/quote]
…All of them?
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Somebody needs to read more Hobbes.[/quote]
I’ll just go to the local housing projects and talk to a bunch of single, non-employed mothers next time a Republican is elected president. I can find the same fear there.[/quote]
It’s clear you haven’t really familiarized yourself with Hobbes because if you had, you would have seen the point I was making. I think you missed it; your above counter-example/analogy/whatever is seriously unrelated.
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
This kind of arguing–“I’ve never been to China so how should I know whether it’s free or not!” (which is related to such drivel as “I’ve never been in a holocaust so I won’t pass judgement” and “I’ve never met Hitler so who am I to say?”)–is where I opt out. It’s fatuous last-ditch stuff. You haven’t been there? Read some words about it. I know with utter certainty that you have opinions and beliefs about places to which you’ve never been and people whom you’ve never met–the Founding Fathers, Somalia–because I’ve read things you wrote about them.
Here’s how it goes:
Nick, do you have an opinion on Adolf Hitler and/or Joseph Stalin?
–“Yes.”
Did you ever meet them?
–“No.”
How can you form an opinion of them?
–“Things I read.”
That’s the only way for that conversation to go. So it’s simple: take that and apply it to China. Then come back to the thread once you’ve got something of substance to say.[/quote]
Exactly the point I was making.[/quote]
Yep, exactly. If you don’t know about China because you jist havent been round dem parts, then neither do you know anything about any other place in the universe to which you’ve never been, or anybody whom you’ve never met, etc. [/quote]
Yeah there is a logical fallacy going on here. You never met Hitler, how could you know he was a sob? You never been to an active warzone, how could you know it’s dangerous?
Which logical fallacy is it?
[/quote]
Heh, I’m stubborn - I see a red herring
Which was yours?
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
Heh, I’m stubborn - I see a red herring
Which was yours? [/quote]
I see that your logical befuddlement endures. Constancy is indeed comforting.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Yep, exactly. If you don’t know about China because you jist havent been round dem parts, then neither do you know anything about any other place in the universe to which you’ve never been, or anybody whom you’ve never met, etc. [/quote]
I have no idea what China’s laws are like, what life is like there, or anything else about it, really. I know only what I hear. I would not judge any place based on what I hear. I may say, “I hear…” about it, but that’s it. If I was thinking about moving and you suggested Santa Fe, New Mexico, I wouldn’t buy a home based on your suggestion. I would check it out first. The way one feels about a society is not a mathematical equation, so I would not claim to know something about a location without having been there myself. Opinions are like assholes, you know?
I have NO desire to live in China. I “own” my property here in America, and have no intention of leaving it for a different master. I’m not sure what’s so controversial about what I’ve said, other than the possibility that some feel I’m questioning patriotism/nationalism.
Do the North Koreans who watch this video know how Americans live?
I’m having trouble putting my finger on just what was funniest about that video, Nick: the fact that it was made in the first place, the Korean girl’s chirpy, cheerful narration, or the Monty Pythonesque deadpan British guy’s voiceover narration.
America! Fuck Yeah. Pardon me while I gather some snow to eat with my roast pigeon.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
I’m having trouble putting my finger on just what was funniest about that video, Nick: the fact that it was made in the first place, the Korean girl’s chirpy, cheerful narration, or the Monty Pythonesque deadpan British guy’s voiceover narration.
America! Fuck Yeah. Pardon me while I gather some snow to eat with my roast pigeon. [/quote]
What’s funniest, to me, is how pathetic it is that another nation makes a film like this about us, while we would never dream of doing the same thing. It sure is nice to live in the richest, most powerful, and most benevolent nation in the history of the world, isn’t it?
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Yep, exactly. If you don’t know about China because you jist havent been round dem parts, then neither do you know anything about any other place in the universe to which you’ve never been, or anybody whom you’ve never met, etc. [/quote]
I have no idea what China’s laws are like[/quote]
I don’t believe you.
I don’t believe you don’t know about political prisoners in China.
I don’t believe you don’t know about '89.
I don’t believe you don’t know about their deporting North Koreans to die in gulags.
And understanding an oppressive regime is not analogous to weighing Santa Fe as a place to move. Obviously.
Again: You’ve never been to Nazi Germany. Are you waiting until you visit to pass judgement, or are you not?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
I’m having trouble putting my finger on just what was funniest about that video, Nick: the fact that it was made in the first place, the Korean girl’s chirpy, cheerful narration, or the Monty Pythonesque deadpan British guy’s voiceover narration.
America! Fuck Yeah. Pardon me while I gather some snow to eat with my roast pigeon. [/quote]
The accent is what gets me. Sounds like the lanky guy who’s Ricky Gervais’ sidekick. “Eating snew.”
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
Heh, I’m stubborn - I see a red herring
Which was yours? [/quote]
I see that your logical befuddlement endures. Constancy is indeed comforting.[/quote]
No you don’t, I’ve got more layers of slipperyness than you could even really begin to pretend to handle
I see many things, from many angles - that’s no flaw
I’ve got flaws, but enjoy misleading others to latch onto false flaws of mine that don’t really exist, makes me feel smart when they bite like fish on my shiny obvious little pieces of bait. But I’m trying to stop because that’s just sick of me to enjoy such a thing, even tho they almost always have what they got coming
The ability of mine to see a red herring does not imply the inability to see anything else. Much less actual belief. You shouldn’t hold a grudge with me, it has potential to give you incentive to miss much learning. You seem to maybe be a natural at this whole slipperyness thing - I type that as a compliment, but you can read it how you want
Friends?
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
Heh, I’m stubborn - I see a red herring
Which was yours? [/quote]
I see that your logical befuddlement endures. Constancy is indeed comforting.[/quote]
No you don’t, I’ve got more layers of slipperyness than you could even really begin to pretend to handle
I see many things, from many angles - that’s no flaw
I’ve got flaws, but enjoy misleading others to latch onto false flaws of mine that don’t really exist, makes me feel smart when they bite like fish on my shiny obvious little pieces of bait. But I’m trying to stop because that’s just sick of me to enjoy such a thing, even tho they almost always have what they got coming
The ability of mine to see a red herring does not imply the inability to see anything else. Much less actual belief. You shouldn’t hold a grudge with me, it has potential to give you incentive to miss much learning. You seem to maybe be a natural at this whole slipperyness thing - I type that as a compliment, but you can read it how you want
[/quote]
I can’t judge China or the Chinese government, I’ve never been there.
Implicit axiom: I can’t judge a place or group I haven’t been to or met, respectively.
Axiom applied elsewhere: I can’t judge the Nazis/Stalin/Molochites/Dahmer/Fred West.
This is the furthest thing from a red herring. It is, in fact, a reductio. A red herring would have been my responding: “But in China, the women don’t shave their armpits.”[/i]
Yes, I’ve heard the “I’m slippery/learn from me” thing before. I submit in refutation that my grasp of all herrings red, evidenced above, is something you might look to for edification’s sake yourself.
Friends–of course. Don’t take my previous post, or this one, or my general correctness in arguments with you, as instances of hostility. My original comment about your enduring befuddlement was intended as a joking, if jokingly sincere, ribbing.
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
I’ve got more layers of slipperyness than you could even really begin to pretend to handle
[/quote]
Edit: So I keep hearing. One would think our previous encounters would have gone differently, in light of this oft-asserted truism.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
I don’t believe you.
I don’t believe you don’t know about political prisoners in China.
I don’t believe you don’t know about '89.
I don’t believe you don’t know about their deporting North Koreans to die in gulags.
And understanding an oppressive regime is not analogous to weighing Santa Fe as a place to move. Obviously.
Again: You’ve never been to Nazi Germany. Are you waiting until you visit to pass judgement, or are you not?[/quote]
I believe you know about the political prisoners who have opposed America’s War on Drugs. I also believe you know what happens when a large group of people decides to withdraw its property from the U.S.
I believe you know about Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc.
I don’t believe you support open borders.
Nope, I’m not waiting to pass judgment on Nazi Germany. I really haven’t waited to pass judgment on China, either, truthfully. I would just rather not compare either State to mine based on what mine tells me.