[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Kareem Said wrote:
What incentive was there to work in catalonia during the anarchist phase? there is incentive to work so you can eat, get new clothes, have nice dinners at the communal restaurants, so they could have education and go to the pub and have sports events etc etc.
[/quote]
I don’t know anything about Catalonia. Do they produce anything other than essentials to survive? What sporting events? I hope it wasn’t European football run by capitalist states.
I disagree. If I can not improve my station there is no point in working hard, furthering my education, getting an education to begin with, taking a chance on innovation, etc…
Someone has to come up with “what get’s produced.” If that party doesn’t have incentive to innovate there will be nothing for the wokring class to produce in short order.
Hell, people today already accept “free” food and money to do nothing when McDonalds is hiring. You think all of a sudden people will have drive because they get a piece of what they produce. That already happens, it’s called a salary.
[quote]
Workers make everything in society, every single thing. We would have iPods and big ass TV’s, we just wouldn’t have a capitalist extracting surplus value off the workers who make it.[/quote]
Yes they do, but in almost every case it isn’t an idea/product they came up with. They also don’t typically know anything about producing, selling, marketing, etc… said idea/product. All they know is there single job (often very well).
They also don’t have the resources for R&D, unless you think farmers are going to give crops away for R&D, which 9/10 will produce nothing. [/quote]
I don’t know how to isolate things you said so I will just respond like this dude.
Yes they were former private owned teams, the footballers collectivised the team and the fans took over the stadiums.
Catalonia is in spain, it was Anarchist collectively run for a long time until the fascists with help from mussolini and air support and weapons and financial backing from Nazi Germany won the war against the republicans, communists, anarchists and other resistance groups. But a massive section of spain was ran along Anarchist lines without wages or police etc etc and it worked and productivity actually increased from its previous capitalist economy.
Again saying they don’t have the resources would be true in a capitalist economy, after an anarchist revolution there would be no currency and no capitalist enterprise, I am not saying workers should run everything in capitalism because obviously thats impossible, I am talking about a different economy, based on workers producing to provide what workers want. So everything we produce now and more, without the value system of capitalism there would be no impediment to producing as much as possible. No millions of tonnes of food a year dumped to keep illusory “value” systems capitalism has to enforce to keep the capitalist economy from tanking.
Again obviously none of what I said would work in a capitalist system. I am talking about a non monetary, non statist society.
we have seen it work in reality as I said for instance in catalonia, until it was crushed by the fascists. Ultimately it would have to be global like the capitalist economic system is now. I think it will definitely come about, maybe not for hundreds of years or until monopoly capitalism has breathed its last laboured breath, but i am sure we will see it.
