The Next President of the United States: II

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
842

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Trump is a complete buffoon, and the fact that GOPers continue to stand in defense of him is a sure sign the party is headed in the wrong direction. It’s frankly embarrassing.

That he is a billionaire is virtually meaningless. Tons of pop musicians run financial empires - are they in high esteem among “conservatives”?

Trump should have laughed at and shown the door. Instead, “conservatives” (scare quotes intentional) keep rallying to his defense when anyone calls him what he is - a clown.[/quote]

Let’s not take this out of context TB. As you may already know I am a Marco Rubio supporter. What I am saying is that if the choice were between Trump and Hillary, regardless of Trumps obvious shortcomings for the highest office in the land he is still better than a chronic liar who has been lusting after power for the past 23 years. If a choice had to be made between the two it should be obvious that Hillary Clinton should not be at the top of anyone’s list. She has actually been given power and has blown it every time.

I prefer someone who tells the truth even if at times he plays the part of blowhard and bragger.

Also, don’t be so quick to dismiss Trumps financial status as a qualifier for the highest office in the land. There are plenty of skills which are needed to take a 30-40 million dollar inheritance and turn it into a 10 billion dollar fortune. As I’ve said on prior occasions negotiating ability, patience, persistence, discipline and much more. Contrast those qualities with Hillary Clinton standing in front of a room full of reporters and saying “wipe my server? You mean with a cloth?”. And how many other times has she gamed the electorate going back to the Jennifer Flowers days, trying mightily to keep her husband in power so that she could be relevant? This woman will stop at nothing to gain and keep power. ENOUGH! How in the world can say you would support this lying machine? When she had power she blew it! You can’t say that of Donald Trump…not yet at least.

I’ve had it up to my eyeballs with the lying Clintons. She especially assumes that everyone is stupid and that only she in her mighty lying wisdom can bring us out of the economic and foreign funk that her great leader Obama has placed us (and that she had a part in). You actually want four, possibly eight years of not knowing when she is playing us? For heaven sakes man look at her record! If her name were Linda Stinkowitz and not Hillary Clinton no one would be giving her a second look. She has the most unremarkable record of almost anyone who has been on the public stage for 23 years. Y

Sure she’s more refined than Donald Trump but what does that have to do with real leadership?

If the choice does come down to a big mouth or a liar, I’ll take the big mouth every time. And it is my guess that you will find that the electorate will also choose the big mouth.

843

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Trump is a complete buffoon, and the fact that GOPers continue to stand in defense of him is a sure sign the party is headed in the wrong direction. It’s frankly embarrassing.

That he is a billionaire is virtually meaningless. Tons of pop musicians run financial empires - are they in high esteem among “conservatives”?

Trump should have laughed at and shown the door. Instead, “conservatives” (scare quotes intentional) keep rallying to his defense when anyone calls him what he is - a clown.[/quote]

This, all of it.

Inasmuch as the contents of Trump’s wallet are driving this admiration, some things ought to be understood: He isn’t worth anywhere near what he says he’s worth. His inheritance was even more substantial than it appears, given the year in which it was bequeathed and the fundaments of economic change over time. This amounts to a much, much smaller growth factor than people think. Furthermore, Trump’s alleged financial heroism takes a further hit when it is remembered that he inherited not only the money with which to make the investments but also the highly functional (it had built his inheritance, after all) apparatus through which to execute them.

Much more importantly, none of this matters in the slightest. Shawn Carter grew up in the Marcy Houses, in which I have personally seen rats the size of rugby balls. He is now the overlord of a “business-entertainment empire.” In beginning at that particular A and ending at that particular B, Carter has enriched himself by an astronomically higher factor than has Trump. Does this make President Jigga an appealing thought? No. Does it mean Hov will make a naturally competent statesmen? Nope. Etc.

Why is President Trump ludicrous? Lots of reasons. He can’t speak on policy issues with as much knowledge/authority as can about 85 percent of this very forum. He is a mumbling, reality-TV clown – an utter embarrassment to this country and, more specifically, to “his party” (who the hell knows whether it’s really his party). But setting all that aside, the POTUS is followed constantly by an instrument through which life on this planet can be extinguished or effectively extinguished. If I am permitted a bit of misogyny, we want such power to lie in the hands of people – be they men or women – who are masculine in the classical sense: strong but sober, cool and collected, reverent of the power of reason above all things. This is the literal opposite of a whining buffoon who stays up all night to hurl insults in a fucking Twitter catfight. Trump is the most histrionic little bitch ever to have run for high office in this country, and his supporters are as unmanly and ill-suited to make public decisions as he.

I said it a while back. The GOP ought to win this election. Whatever demographic advantage will be enjoyed by the Dem nominee, it will be wiped out and more by the three-in-a-row rule. Furthermore, the liberals have run out of charisma. Hillary is not going to fire anybody up as Obama did. It’s time, from a policy perspective, for 1600 Penn Ave to harbor a fiscally sober statesman. And yet the conservative base might, just might find a way to humiliatingly fuck itself so hard and publicly as to allow defeat to be snatched out of the proverbial jaws of victory.

Edited.

844

^ I should add that this doesn’t really apply to people around here. I don’t think Trump has many outright supporters on PWI. I think there is a different force obtaining, which has to do with dislike of HRC so strong as to push people into the unenviable position of arguing that a President Trump would be better than a President Clinton. In my view this is also wrong and dangerous, and it definitely relates in many ways to what I’ve said above, but it’s a somewhat different conversation.

845

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
And yet the conservative base might, just might find a way to humiliatingly fuck itself so hard and publicly as to allow defeat to be snatched out of the proverbial jaws of victory.

Edited.[/quote]

The one thing you’ve really got wrong, my friend, I’m quoting. If we fuck ourselves, it will NOT be the conservative base doing the fucking.

846

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
And yet the conservative base might, just might find a way to humiliatingly fuck itself so hard and publicly as to allow defeat to be snatched out of the proverbial jaws of victory.

Edited.[/quote]

The one thing you’ve really got wrong, my friend, I’m quoting. If we fuck ourselves, it will NOT be the conservative base doing the fucking. [/quote]

Point taken. I would in fact argue that, to at least a partial extent, Trump supporters – actual supporters – are by definition not politically conservative. They almost transcend politics, occupying some kind of Platonic realm of ideal absurdity. But as long as they call themselves conservative, the problems for the GOP will remain very earthly.

847

By the way, it’s great to have you back around here, Cortes!

849

[quote]pushharder wrote:
The biggest mistake a Trump hater/lampooner/critic can make is to blame his popularity on the alleged stupidity of his supporters. A discerning observer would comprehend that there is something else going on.[/quote]

His supporters are by definition stupid, for the reasons listed above. Where do you disagree? What is this other thing that’s going on?

850

[quote]pushharder wrote:
The biggest mistake a Trump hater/lampooner/critic can make is to blame his popularity on the alleged stupidity of his supporters. A discerning observer would comprehend that there is something else going on.[/quote]

As if those who would vote for a chronic liar are astute voters-HA!

851

[quote]pushharder wrote:
The biggest mistake a Trump hater/lampooner/critic can make is to blame his popularity on the alleged stupidity of his supporters. A discerning observer would comprehend that there is something else going on.[/quote]

They’re fed up with the “establishment GOP” and “RINOs”. Still, burning the house down in lieu of renovation is the epitome of idiocy.

855

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Trump is a complete buffoon, and the fact that GOPers continue to stand in defense of him is a sure sign the party is headed in the wrong direction. It’s frankly embarrassing.

That he is a billionaire is virtually meaningless. Tons of pop musicians run financial empires - are they in high esteem among “conservatives”?

Trump should have laughed at and shown the door. Instead, “conservatives” (scare quotes intentional) keep rallying to his defense when anyone calls him what he is - a clown.[/quote]

So if you had to vote for him or Clinton, who would you choose, t? [/quote]

Assuming we are in the real world, where neither could be an option - neither. Completely serious. I’d write someone in.

I wouldn’t vote for Clinton because I will not knowingly vote for corruption, and Clinton is undoubtedly corrupt.

However, every time an American president goes into a room, the nation’s prestige is on the line. I would never votr for a reality-television lout for that job. It would be voter malpractice.

Trump’s sole quality is that he happens to be wealthy. So is Kim Kardashian. And he isn’t even a rich as his supporters claims - all these pro-business “conservatives” should know that a good chunk of Trump’s wealth is the estimated value of his “brand”, but no serious person thinks his brand is worth what he reports it as because there is no market clamoring to use (and therefore pay for) his name.

Trump is an embarrassment to whatever is passing for movement conservatism these days. The fact that policy-wise he is actually to the left of hated RINOs adds unintentional hilarity to this whole disaster. This flirtation with Trump will cost the GOP.

856

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
And yet the conservative base might, just might find a way to humiliatingly fuck itself so hard and publicly as to allow defeat to be snatched out of the proverbial jaws of victory.

Edited.[/quote]

The one thing you’ve really got wrong, my friend, I’m quoting. If we fuck ourselves, it will NOT be the conservative base doing the fucking. [/quote]

Respectfully, I completely disagree with this. They most certainly can, and most certainly have. See 2012.

857

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Also, don’t be so quick to dismiss Trumps financial status as a qualifier for the highest office in the land. There are plenty of skills which are needed to take a 30-40 million dollar inheritance and turn it into a 10 billion dollar fortune. As I’ve said on prior occasions negotiating ability, patience, persistence, discipline and much more.[/quote]

Enough. Seriously, enough. Trump is nowhere near worth $10 billion, and the fact that you continue to uncritically peddle this nonsense isn’t nearly a reflection on Trump as it is about your lack of objectivity (which is becoming legend around these parts).

And no one really thinks of Trump as this first class negotiator and businessman - who else is hiring him? Which powerful multinationals are begging Trump to sit on the board?

What’s Trump going to do? Use a reality show to pick his Chief of Staff?

I get it. You’re a party man, and if Trump ends up being the nominee, you’re obligated to declare him Greatest Candidate Ever, but no, Trump isn’t great, he isn’t even good. The sooner the GOP admits it, the sooner they take a step toward winning instead of doing…whatever it is that they are doing now, which is not setting themselves up to win.

858

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
The biggest mistake a Trump hater/lampooner/critic can make is to blame his popularity on the alleged stupidity of his supporters. A discerning observer would comprehend that there is something else going on.[/quote]

His supporters are by definition stupid, for the reasons listed above. Where do you disagree? What is this other thing that’s going on?[/quote]

Before I answer your question (which I cannot fathom you not already knowing the answer) do you think someone like Jeff Sessions is stupid?[/quote]

I really don’t know enough specific things about Jeff Sessions to pass judgment. Inasmuch as he praises Trump, he is a fool…except that with politicians, unlike regular people, you never can know whether they believe the things they say --especially when they say nice things about the reality TV star who’s histrionically whining his way to the “conservative” heart.

Now, in what way, vis-a-vis what I argued in my first post, are Trump supporters not by definition cretins?

859

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

They’re fed up with the “establishment GOP” and “RINOs”.

[/quote]

Why?[/quote]

Generally, they are maximalist ideologues who have little substantive understanding of history or politics. They reject via media in favor of my way or the highway. Compromise equals appeasement for the tea party and their ilk.

860

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
ZEB wrote:

Also, don’t be so quick to dismiss Trumps financial status as a qualifier for the highest office in the land. There are plenty of skills which are needed to take a 30-40 million dollar inheritance and turn it into a 10 billion dollar fortune. As I’ve said on prior occasions negotiating ability, patience, persistence, discipline and much more.

Enough. Seriously, enough. Trump is nowhere near worth $10 billion,[/quote]

Says the man who is intimately aware of every aspect of Trumps wealth. Oh…you mean you’re not? And neither am I.

I’ve said on other occasions to other Trump haters. Forbes has his net worth at 4 billion. To take 30-40 million and turn it into 4 billion is a monumental task. But you wouldn’t know that as you’ve never done it, and apparently you do you have any respect for someone who has done it. Or, are you now declaring that Forbes magazine is full of Trump loving idiots too?

Pay attention Thunderbolt. I have said on many occasions that the 10 billion dollar figure could be wrong. I’ve used 4 billion as well as 6 billion which came from another financial source.

Really now, no one thinks this? Not anyone else in the entire world who has anything to do with finance thinks this? Wow, it seems that you have a lack of objectivity. You are willing to claim without any verification whatsoever that no one thinks Trump is a good negotiator simply because you don’t like him–now how about that?

Are billionaire businessmen supposed to hire out their services for such a thing? I never heard of that. Of course I’m not nearly as smart as you so I guess you can tell me all of the other billionaire business men who have hired on to negotiate someone else’s deals. Go ahead give me a list. It can be a short list because I don’t want you to take whole lot of time looking up the information.

I have no idea and neither do you. But I will say there was another billionaire who ran for President back in 92’ who drew 19% of the vote as a third party candidate, Ross Perot. He sat on GM’s board for a short time until they voted him off. Billionaire’s tend to be pretty independent. Now that might be an argument for keeping him out of the White House because one must get along with Congress just as Barack Obama has done–Oops no he hasn’t either. But I do think it is a good trait.

Oh my seems we have a lack of critical thinking here. How long has Trump been a reality star? That would be 11 years. Now how long has he been a successful businessman? That would be about 40 years. Try again…

I’ve made no secret that I’m a republican. I think the republican philosophy (if actually followed) will help the country far more than the mess that is now the democratic party. Now with that cleared up how many times have I said that Trump is far from my first choice? How many times have I posted that Rubio is in fact my first choice? You have to pay attention if you are going to try to rip me because so far you are missing by wide margins.

I guess that depends on what you think he is not great or good at. He certainly is great at making money. I know you are not impressed with anything he does because you don’t like him (more lack of objectivity on your part). How many billionaires are there in the world? Go look it up. It’s quite rare for a reason. Would this translate into him being even a good President? I have no idea. But, if I am pushed to vote for either Trump or Hillary as I have said it’s an easy choice for me. You think Trump would embarrass the office, but I have news for you Hillary has already embarrassed the US. We have a very well known corrupt individual in Hillary Clinton and I won’t stay home and refrain from voting to further her career as you suggested that you would.

[quote]The sooner the GOP admits it, the sooner they take a step toward winning instead of doing…whatever it is that they are doing now, which is not setting themselves up to win.
[/quote]

Okay Bud let me set you straight on a just a few things: First, the GOP is not thrilled to have Trump in the race much less having him at the top spot (um…you couldn’t tell?). Secondly, Trump’s success so far is directly related to the right wings total disgust not only with Obama but their own party (this one you should have known). Thirdly, when it comes right down to it Trump will not be the nominee. If you’ve noticed he has hit 32% or so and flattened out going as low as 26% or so. In other words he has hit his “glass ceiling”. Put another way there is no depth of support for him. When 5 or 6 more candidates drop out their support will go to one of the others in the top tier. We know this because already the other two "non-politicians have gained ground on him. So the “we hate standard politicians” group is spread out among three candidates. If Trump were that strong he would be up in the high 30 percentile by now.

I want no thanks for your political education it was a gift from the heart.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
The biggest mistake a Trump hater/lampooner/critic can make is to blame his popularity on the alleged stupidity of his supporters. A discerning observer would comprehend that there is something else going on.[/quote]

They’re fed up with the “establishment GOP” and “RINOs”. Still, burning the house down in lieu of renovation is the epitome of idiocy. [/quote]

Ever hear of a guy named Andrew Jackson?[/quote]

Heh. The same Jackson you vilified here on PWI in a previous thread?

In any event, never confuse a populist and a demagogue. Trump is the latter, not the former. And there is no comparison to Jackson.