The Muslim Holocaust

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
201

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Well, you’re really touching on why I reject religion period. Anything can be perverted to suit your interests.[/quote]

Hence, the reason for Jesus establishing the Church.[/quote]

I’m trying to figure out how to ask this without sounding accusatory, but I can’t, so please don’t take it that way. But do you honestly think the Catholic Church isn’t corrupt? Or hasn’t been?[/quote]

The human nature (the individuals), yes. We’re sinners. Like my Israeli friend says, “We’re not hypocrites because we’re Catholics, we’re Catholics because we’re hypocrites.” We are not perfect, never claimed to be.

Peter our Pope, denied Christ three times. Let me tell you about numerology here for a second. Three is very symbolic in the Bible, stands for completeness (Trinity, three days in Hell, Jesus tempted three times, &c.). Peter denied Jesus completely, Peter also told Jesus he loved him complete (Jesus asked Peter three times if he loved him, and he answered affirmative thrice).

As Catholics we know three things (okay we no more than that, but trying to make a point and go along with the theme of three). Those three things are some of the most morbid things you’ll ever wrap your head around, how we remind ourselves is even more morbid (but that is a later topic). What we know…we know of our fallen nature (we’re sinners), we know without the Lord we couldn’t do anything (anything that’s not going to be dashed in the pit of fire at least), and we know one day we’ll die (Tempus Fugit, Memento Mori).

As Catholics, we should not, or at least should not, have any illusions otherwise.

However! Always a however. :wink:

The Church has two natures (think of Jesus, two natures: human and divine). Jesus’ body, or Church, is made up as any other body. The reason for the divine nature is because Jesus is G-d and Jesus promised the Holy Ghost to the Church to guide us to the end of time.

Just as Jesus’ body was crucified, torn apart, beaten, corrupted by the nails, the lance, the leather of the whip and everything deemed profane, but his divine nature stayed pure, he never sinned. It was never corrupted.

That is why Catholics believe the Church can be perfect (morals, teachings, &c.), with sinners in it. Not because we’re some uber-uptight people who never do a bad thing or because our Bishops are sooooo good at teaching the same thing from the beginning of the Church on Calvary to the current date, but because Jesus is G-d and Jesus said he’d protect the Church from Hell and the Holy Ghost would be our guide, and we believe that the Holy Ghost cannot be deceived or deceive us.

As well, what congregation in Christendom has a sacrament of reconciliation? If we have a Sacrament (with a capital S) for the sole purpose of forgiving sins, you think we don’t recognize that we’re not corrupt? We know, trust us. We’ve been trying to tell the world of the human’s fallen nature, but no one believes us. What shall we do? Keep the preaching I guess.[/quote]

Wow, I was not expecting that great of a response, thank you BC. Well I can’t say I agree with you, thanks nonetheless.

203

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
his point is simple. He want you( who are claiming that all conflicts with muslims in it, is caused by islam, becuase murder, chaos is the root of islam ) to be consistent. you cant choose to use a materalistic history perspective on europa/christianity and a idealistic one when wiewing muslims.
thats inconsistent. This is the point I think orion is trying to make( I can be wrong )

ps. I dont know if you have claimed a idealistic aproach to islamic/arab history btw.[/quote]

I understand his point, I do not agree.

Communists and Nazi’s wanted to destroy existing religion and substitute it with something else.

Muslims do not wish to do this. Bin Laden fancies himself a religious man. He wants to reform the Caliphate. He wants to spread Islam by the sword like his ancestors did.

Or do you deny this.[/quote]

I dunno, there seem to be people that want to spread “freedom and democracy” with the sword, or do you deny this?

Now, who is the greater danger to peace overall?

[/quote]

Perhaps freedom and democracy are more important than a “peace” maintained through oppression.[/quote]

Perhaps, but who are you to make that choice for other people?

Perhaps submitting to the will of Allah is more important than even freedom, in fact, that might be true freedom.

Perhaps those evil Muslims only want to liberate you, and yet you do not greet them with flowers.

205

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
his point is simple. He want you( who are claiming that all conflicts with muslims in it, is caused by islam, becuase murder, chaos is the root of islam ) to be consistent. you cant choose to use a materalistic history perspective on europa/christianity and a idealistic one when wiewing muslims.
thats inconsistent. This is the point I think orion is trying to make( I can be wrong )

ps. I dont know if you have claimed a idealistic aproach to islamic/arab history btw.[/quote]

I understand his point, I do not agree.

Communists and Nazi’s wanted to destroy existing religion and substitute it with something else.

Muslims do not wish to do this. Bin Laden fancies himself a religious man. He wants to reform the Caliphate. He wants to spread Islam by the sword like his ancestors did.

Or do you deny this.[/quote]

I dunno, there seem to be people that want to spread “freedom and democracy” with the sword, or do you deny this?

Now, who is the greater danger to peace overall?

[/quote]

Perhaps freedom and democracy are more important than a “peace” maintained through oppression.[/quote]

Perhaps, but who are you to make that choice for other people?

Perhaps submitting to the will of Allah is more important than even freedom, in fact, that might be true freedom.

Perhaps those evil Muslims only want to liberate you, and yet you do not greet them with flowers.

[/quote]

Ah, but there were plenty of happy faces & flowers – at least at first – in Iraq, and now in Libya.

Besides, after people are free, THEY can decide for themselves what they want.

Freedom negates no option.

That can’t be said about anything else.

Freedom can’t be bad.[/quote]

Says you ,bu tlook where your freedom leads you!

Your women no longer know their rightful place, they order men around, young girls strut around and distract young men from their studies and their prayers.

You value houses and cars more than you God and your families!

You call this freedom?

I call this demonic possession and you should thank the brave young warriors who give their lifes to show you what power lies in true faith.

206

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[The Catholic Church is a cesspool of corruption dating back to the beginning to the present. [/quote]

What about the Orthodox Church? Do you believe they are corrupt as well? Everyone seems to ignore the “other” church from the east.

207

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

Well, there’s 655k right there since 2003 not counting deaths due to sanctions. By the way, your link above does not constitute proof that the American media has given this fair treatment. I sure don’t hear much about it on the news. Are you denying media bias in this country?[/quote]

Why do you keep talking about “deaths due to sanctions” the sanctions did not with hold food. Saddam kept the humanitarian goods for himself and his troops and left his people to starve so he could blame the west for their deaths. Looks like you fell for it as well.

So, I post a link to an article about Iraqi deaths and you do not believe the American media reports on it? Well explain why the article exists at all. If there were no coverage, there wouldn’t be an article. Someone is obviously reporting on it.

And define “fair” treatment. Every time civilians are killed it is reported. Prove that this is not true. Show me an aricle from a major news outlet about an attack that DOES NOT mention Iraqi or Afghanistan casualites. I don’t care if it’s a drone attack, suicide attack, US attack, or attack on troops.

Post a Link.

208

[quote]orion wrote:

I dunno, there seem to be people that want to spread “freedom and democracy” with the sword, or do you deny this?

Now, who is the greater danger to peace overall?

[/quote]

I do not deny the shaman are trying to spread freedom and democracy.

The Muslims, they’ve been doing it longer.

209

[quote]orion wrote:

Perhaps, but who are you to make that choice for other people?

Perhaps submitting to the will of Allah is more important than even freedom, in fact, that might be true freedom.

Perhaps those evil Muslims only want to liberate you, and yet you do not greet them with flowers.

[/quote]

yeah, didn’t Himmer say he wished the Nazis could convert to Islam since it was a warrior’s religion. It all ties together…

210

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
his point is simple. He want you( who are claiming that all conflicts with muslims in it, is caused by islam, becuase murder, chaos is the root of islam ) to be consistent. you cant choose to use a materalistic history perspective on europa/christianity and a idealistic one when wiewing muslims.
thats inconsistent. This is the point I think orion is trying to make( I can be wrong )

ps. I dont know if you have claimed a idealistic aproach to islamic/arab history btw.[/quote]

I understand his point, I do not agree.

Communists and Nazi’s wanted to destroy existing religion and substitute it with something else.

Muslims do not wish to do this. Bin Laden fancies himself a religious man. He wants to reform the Caliphate. He wants to spread Islam by the sword like his ancestors did.

Or do you deny this.[/quote]

I dunno, there seem to be people that want to spread “freedom and democracy” with the sword, or do you deny this?

Now, who is the greater danger to peace overall?

[/quote]

Perhaps freedom and democracy are more important than a “peace” maintained through oppression.[/quote]

Perhaps, but who are you to make that choice for other people?

Perhaps submitting to the will of Allah is more important than even freedom, in fact, that might be true freedom.

Perhaps those evil Muslims only want to liberate you, and yet you do not greet them with flowers.

[/quote]

Ah, but there were plenty of happy faces & flowers – at least at first – in Iraq, and now in Libya.

Besides, after people are free, THEY can decide for themselves what they want.

Freedom negates no option.

That can’t be said about anything else.

Freedom can’t be bad.[/quote]

Says you ,bu tlook where your freedom leads you!

Your women no longer know their rightful place, they order men around, young girls strut around and distract young men from their studies and their prayers.

You value houses and cars more than you God and your families!

You call this freedom?

I call this demonic possession and you should thank the brave young warriors who give their lifes to show you what power lies in true faith.
[/quote]

Then give up your car and your house. And convert to Islam if you want to. The reason you hate “freedom and democracy” so much is because what? You feel the wrong people lost the war? You think East Germany was better than West Germany? You wish the world was behind the Iron Curtain? Under the Taliban? If that’s your idea of nostalgia, I seriously feel sorry for you.

211

[quote]florelius wrote:

I agree that bin laden is a religious nut, but that is not an argument for that all muslims that are in conflict, are there because of theire religion. PLO and arafat where muslims, but there objectiv where nationalism. just to use an example.

When it comes to the “communist” regimes, yes they developed an aggressive atheist position.

The nazi`s where all over the place when it comes to religion.

My point stills stands, its important to hold people to the same standards. [/quote]

I am not stating that all muslims are evil. I am saying that Muslim extremists are evil.

And one more time, were the Nazis motives during WWII to spread Christianity by the sword? Or was it to spread Nazism by the sword?

212

http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/pdf/Swastika-vs-Cross.pdf

Brother Chris, Orion, read this.

213

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Perhaps, but who are you to make that choice for other people?

Perhaps submitting to the will of Allah is more important than even freedom, in fact, that might be true freedom.

Perhaps those evil Muslims only want to liberate you, and yet you do not greet them with flowers.

[/quote]

yeah, didn’t Himmer say he wished the Nazis could convert to Islam since it was a warrior’s religion. It all ties together…[/quote]

The Nazis were greeted with flowers in some instances.

Now there is a thought.

214

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:
his point is simple. He want you( who are claiming that all conflicts with muslims in it, is caused by islam, becuase murder, chaos is the root of islam ) to be consistent. you cant choose to use a materalistic history perspective on europa/christianity and a idealistic one when wiewing muslims.
thats inconsistent. This is the point I think orion is trying to make( I can be wrong )

ps. I dont know if you have claimed a idealistic aproach to islamic/arab history btw.[/quote]

I understand his point, I do not agree.

Communists and Nazi’s wanted to destroy existing religion and substitute it with something else.

Muslims do not wish to do this. Bin Laden fancies himself a religious man. He wants to reform the Caliphate. He wants to spread Islam by the sword like his ancestors did.

Or do you deny this.[/quote]

I dunno, there seem to be people that want to spread “freedom and democracy” with the sword, or do you deny this?

Now, who is the greater danger to peace overall?

[/quote]

Perhaps freedom and democracy are more important than a “peace” maintained through oppression.[/quote]

Perhaps, but who are you to make that choice for other people?

Perhaps submitting to the will of Allah is more important than even freedom, in fact, that might be true freedom.

Perhaps those evil Muslims only want to liberate you, and yet you do not greet them with flowers.

[/quote]

Ah, but there were plenty of happy faces & flowers – at least at first – in Iraq, and now in Libya.

Besides, after people are free, THEY can decide for themselves what they want.

Freedom negates no option.

That can’t be said about anything else.

Freedom can’t be bad.[/quote]

Says you ,bu tlook where your freedom leads you!

Your women no longer know their rightful place, they order men around, young girls strut around and distract young men from their studies and their prayers.

You value houses and cars more than you God and your families!

You call this freedom?

I call this demonic possession and you should thank the brave young warriors who give their lifes to show you what power lies in true faith.
[/quote]

Then give up your car and your house. And convert to Islam if you want to. The reason you hate “freedom and democracy” so much is because what? You feel the wrong people lost the war? You think East Germany was better than West Germany? You wish the world was behind the Iron Curtain? Under the Taliban? If that’s your idea of nostalgia, I seriously feel sorry for you.[/quote]

What?

I should decide for myself what course to take?

But that isnot how its done, mighty invaders must bring their systems with them!

215

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/pdf/Swastika-vs-Cross.pdf

Brother Chris, Orion, read this.[/quote]

So?

One cleric who acted against the expressed wishes of his own church.

I think we would find one or the other Iman who does the same.

216

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Perhaps, but who are you to make that choice for other people?

Perhaps submitting to the will of Allah is more important than even freedom, in fact, that might be true freedom.

Perhaps those evil Muslims only want to liberate you, and yet you do not greet them with flowers.

[/quote]

yeah, didn’t Himmer say he wished the Nazis could convert to Islam since it was a warrior’s religion. It all ties together…[/quote]

The Nazis were greeted with flowers in some instances.

Now there is a thought.

[/quote]

You are correct. By the fascist White Ukranians who greeted them as allies against Stalin’s Communist forces. The Nazis responded by arresting and executing them.

217

[quote]orion wrote:

What?

I should decide for myself what course to take?

But that isnot how its done, mighty invaders must bring their systems with them![/quote]

It is how freedom works, but apparently that is lost on you.

218

[quote]orion wrote:
[So?

One cleric who acted against the expressed wishes of his own church.

I think we would find one or the other Iman who does the same.

[/quote]

I think we would most likely find him dead, either beheaded, shot or blown to pieces by other extreme muslims who do not share his views.

For instance: Grand Ayatollah Hakim.

219

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

What?

I should decide for myself what course to take?

But that isnot how its done, mighty invaders must bring their systems with them![/quote]

It is how freedom works, but apparently that is lost on you.[/quote]

That cant be true.

Liberators bring their systems with them, especially to brown people, who, through cultural or general inferiority must be taught how to conduct their own affairs.

I am positively sure of that, because I watch the news.

220

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
[So?

One cleric who acted against the expressed wishes of his own church.

I think we would find one or the other Iman who does the same.

[/quote]

I think we would most likely find him dead, either beheaded, shot or blown to pieces by other extreme muslims who do not share his views.

For instance: Grand Ayatollah Hakim. [/quote]

So you are saying one cleric who resists and is killed because of it is not really evidence that a whole faith did not go along surprisingly well with a political regime?