[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
^^ Dog if that were the case they wouldn’t be around today. You’re sensationalising facts and routinely ignoring the fundamental purpose of the organisation; to help the Muslim community and related issues.[/quote]
And you are taking it on faith that their stated “fundamental purpose” is what they actaully do, in spite of strong evidence to the contrary.
There is no evidence. It’s all hearsay, false accusations, and guilty by association.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
There is no evidence. It’s all hearsay, false accusations, and guilty by association.[/quote]
All those people were CONVICTED. That’s not hearsay, false accusations, or guilt by association.
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
There is no evidence. It’s all hearsay, false accusations, and guilty by association.[/quote]
All those people were CONVICTED. That’s not hearsay, false accusations, or guilt by association.[/quote]
You think all the people that reddog listed were convicted? Wrong. A few folks that have had some connection to CAIR have been convicted, and that is mentioned on their website. CAIR itself has not been convicted of anything or is there any substantial evidence leaning towards them supporting terrorism. In fact, they openly and constantly say that it is prohibited in Islam. And if you are going to list them as an unindicted co conspirator then you can look earlier where i posted an ACLU quote that it was done as a legal tactic.
In a March 14, 2007 New York Times article, Michael Rolince, a retired F.B.I. official who directed counterterrorism in the Washington field office from 2002 to 2005, said, “Of all the groups, there is probably more suspicion about CAIR, but when you ask people for cold hard facts, you get blank stares.”
The article also reported, “Government officials in Washington said they were not aware of any criminal investigation of the group. More than one described the standards used by critics to link CAIR to terrorism as akin to McCarthyism, essentially guilt by association.”
[quote]zahmad wrote:
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
There is no evidence. It’s all hearsay, false accusations, and guilty by association.[/quote]
All those people were CONVICTED. That’s not hearsay, false accusations, or guilt by association.[/quote]
You think all the people that reddog listed were convicted? Wrong. A few folks that have had some connection to CAIR have been convicted, and that is mentioned on their website. CAIR itself has not been convicted of anything or is there any substantial evidence leaning towards them supporting terrorism. In fact, they openly and constantly say that it is prohibited in Islam. And if you are going to list them as an unindicted co conspirator then you can look earlier where i posted an ACLU quote that it was done as a legal tactic.
In a March 14, 2007 New York Times article, Michael Rolince, a retired F.B.I. official who directed counterterrorism in the Washington field office from 2002 to 2005, said, “Of all the groups, there is probably more suspicion about CAIR, but when you ask people for cold hard facts, you get blank stares.”
The article also reported, “Government officials in Washington said they were not aware of any criminal investigation of the group. More than one described the standards used by critics to link CAIR to terrorism as akin to McCarthyism, essentially guilt by association.”[/quote]
Just 7 high ranking members… But we should just ignore all that and take your word for it.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
In fact, they openly and constantly say that it is prohibited in Islam. [/quote]
Well, not to throw another log on the fire, but it is acceptable to lie to unbelievers’ faces according to numerous Islamic scholarly instruction. So, I take them saying that with a grain of salt. Let’s also consider the fact that a similar tactic–lying to unbelievers in order to throw them off-- has been used numerous times in the past by devout muslims in positions of leadership in the Mid East. The actions of President Sadat leading to the Yom Kippur war come to mind–in that case, it was swearing violence “within the year” and letting the timeline pass, giving furloughs to many officers and generally giving an appearance of winding down, then attempting to attack by surprise in '73. There are others as well.
Deception of the unbeliever is a well established use of lying in Islam.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
There is no evidence. It’s all hearsay, false accusations, and guilty by association.[/quote]
All those people were CONVICTED. That’s not hearsay, false accusations, or guilt by association.[/quote]
You think all the people that reddog listed were convicted? Wrong. [/quote]
Who in that list the reddog gave was NOT convicted?
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
There is no evidence. It’s all hearsay, false accusations, and guilty by association.[/quote]
All those people were CONVICTED. That’s not hearsay, false accusations, or guilt by association.[/quote]
You think all the people that reddog listed were convicted? Wrong. [/quote]
Who in that list the reddog gave was NOT convicted?[/quote]
Look it up, a bunch of those folks are addressed in the pdf file I listed.
Siraj Wahhaj and Nihad Awad off the top of my head were not convicted of anything. Some of the people on his list are not even affiliated with CAIR.
Taqiyya is a safety net in case one’s life is in danger. Christians used the same idea to celebrate Jesus’ birthday. Taqiyya doesn’t give free reign to deceive anyone that is not Muslim.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
Taqiyya doesn’t give free reign to deceive anyone that is not Muslim.
[/quote]
You know, giving you the benefit of the doubt, let’s say that you truly believe that, and believe that that (as well as prohibitions against violence, against intolerance, against forced belief) is what all Muslims SHOULD believe.
That still doesn’t change one bit the fact that for years on end the world has seen, experienced and suffered at the hands of plenty of Muslims who disagree with you, and want nothing more than our total elimination and / or subjugation.
I don’t care if YOU call them “Zippims” or some other nonsense term. THEY identify themselves as Muslims, and only a fool would not be wary of anyone carrying that label.[/quote]
According to Pews there are 1.57 billion Muslims in the world. That’s a strong accusation to throw at over 20% of the world’s population.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
Taqiyya doesn’t give free reign to deceive anyone that is not Muslim.
[/quote]
You know, giving you the benefit of the doubt, let’s say that you truly believe that, and believe that that (as well as prohibitions against violence, against intolerance, against forced belief) is what all Muslims SHOULD believe.
That still doesn’t change one bit the fact that for years on end the world has seen, experienced and suffered at the hands of plenty of Muslims who disagree with you, and want nothing more than our total elimination and / or subjugation.
I don’t care if YOU call them “Zippims” or some other nonsense term. THEY identify themselves as Muslims, and only a fool would not be wary of anyone carrying that label.[/quote]
According to Pews there are 1.57 billion Muslims in the world. That’s a strong accusation to throw at over 20% of the world’s population.[/quote]
That’s not much of an argument.
It only means that even a small minority of radical Muslims would constitute a real threat.
[/quote]
It wasn’t an argument, it was a statement. I guess you don’t have a problem passing judgment on 1.57 billion people.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
You have developed “denial” into an art form, and mastered it’s practice.[/quote]
or maybe Media hype is the true art form that has mastered common perception?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
You have developed “denial” into an art form, and mastered it’s practice.[/quote]
or maybe Media hype is the true art form that has mastered common perception?
[/quote]
What year is it again?
Because a few things have happened since 2005.
But then, denial allows you to, well, deny that, right?
And of course, the world of terrorism is limited only to the US, right?
I mean, Westerners have not been attacked all over the world in the name of Islam, have they?
D-E-N-I-A-L.[/quote]
Well here’s some data up to 2009 for the EU:
and a RAND Report:
Easy to throw emotion and accusation into the pot, a lot tougher to prove it.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Easy to cherry pick, as well.
Show me some up-to-date worldwide statistics, and I’ll take it seriously.[/quote]
Lets see what DATA we have so far…
Gallup study showing 94% of Muslims in the world are against violent jihad
http://www.gallup.com/press/104209/who-speaks-islam-what-billion-muslims-really-think.aspx
Duke/UNC study showing that 40% of Muslim terrorist arrests were turned in by other Muslims, and that 130 Muslim Organizations have publicly and privately declared that terrorist actions are prohibited in Islam.
http://www.sanford.duke.edu/...ror_Lessons.pdf
Data showing that Islamic terrorists make up a tiny fraction of the terrorism in both the US and the EU.
RAND report showing that the homegrown threat of jihadism is way exaggerated.
And your buddy Steve Emerson at Investigative Reporting, a “non-profit”, has made over 3 million dollars with this Islamophobic propaganda.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20101024/NEWS01/10240374/Anti-Muslim-crusaders-make-millions-spreading-fear
And most of the other people that write the crap you believe are loons too -
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
Gallup study showing 94% of Muslims in the world are against violent jihad
http://www.gallup.com/press/104209/who-speaks-islam-what-billion-muslims-really-think.aspx
[/quote]
What is 6% of 1.57 billion?
What are comparable figures for the other major religions of the world?[/quote]
I’ve shown you plenty of data that shows that a very small % of Muslims are violent, a very small % of the terrorism that occurs is caused by Muslims, Muslims help stop the radicals, Muslims speak out against acts of terrorism, and a small but highly vocal group of loons spread all the Islamaphobic information and are laughing their way to the bank with your money.
Find someone else to play with and peace be with you.