If I remember correctly, Mike and Ray passed within a couple days of each other
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Yes, Mike died first and then Ray passed two days laterā¦June of 2001ā¦
Scott, could you please give more details on āthe gym bag full of drugsāā¦What year?..Was this at Goldās in Santa Monica?..What drugs are we talking about?..Steroids, speed, recreational drugs???..Also, Mike died BEFORE Rayā¦Respectfully, Steveā¦.
== Scott==
Remember ,this was over 30 years ago. We were At Spartan Gym in Md where he worked out because it was one of the few gyms that had Nautilus . He was showing some other bodybuilder what bodybuilding drugs and other stuff he had in his bag when we were in the locker room listing all these medical names I donāt remember now. The other guy seem impressed! He acted like he was a pharmacist , ha ha , and at the time I thought he might have been one? Whether Ray died before or after doesnāt matter, I think he felt responsible for his condition.
Scott
Mike Mentzer told me in the mid 90s he and EVERY pro-bodybuilder were taking āwell over the recommended dosageā of steroids. But he then told me, he had no idea what kind of crazy stuff the guys of the 90s were takingā¦and implied it was stronger than anything his generation had done.
And the stuff they take now makes the older guys look like they were eating Wheaties! Ha ha !
Scott
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Yes, Scott, BB has become a pharmaceutical freak showā¦And in no way, shape or form is their training applicable to naturalsā¦Intense, brief and infrequent is still the Gold Standard for those with normal endocrinologyā¦Respectfully, Steveā¦
Oh I just remembered at the time Mike was big into experimenting with those electric muscle stimulators! He had one of those in his bag as well and was showing it around. The times I saw him work out he was all business , no joking around or horse play. Very serious. Every once in a while he would help me force out a few more reps at the end of a set. I was one of the few in the gym who pushed it to my limit and he seemed to appreciate that even though I could only do about 40 pounds when he was doing the whole stack!
Scott
Good memory, Scott, He was introduced to it by Dr. John Ziegler (whom he worked for), the man who helped Ciba develop Dianabol, at the behest of Bob Hoffman, as the American Olympic lifters were far behind the Eastern Bloc countries when it came to drugs.
As I recall, John Grimek and Steve Stanko were two of the early guinea pigsā¦
Also, Ziegler went to his grave regretting the development of Dbolā¦Respectfully, Steveā¦
I remember vividly how a couple of guys in high school got hold of some Dbol and it wasnāt long before they were showing muscle and getting stronger fast. It was very discouraging . It almost made me quit several times. Itās like these āmotivational ā videos on the internet where they show these guys like Ronnie Coleman or these other giant guys working out. It is very entertaining Iike going to a freak show but motivational? No way. I know those guys are one in a million and thereās no way I could ever get even half as big as they can.
It makes me think I should be Doing something else with my time.
Scott
Not really much more to say about it.
Makes me wonder how he would get a copy of the autopsy report. I donāt think they would release it to just anyone.
I would think if anyone had the report if would be Joeanne.
Not sure, but Jerry Brainum has a very good reputation in general, so I donāt think he would lie. He also said the Mentzers were long time friends of his.
Jerry had posted moreā¦
They both suffered from serious depressive episodes. Mike was never the same after going on a speed binge a few year back. Ray had a serious kidney disorder, and Mike was going to donate one of his (Mikeās) kidneys to his brother. Itās difficult to say how much their style of training contributed to their chronic, unyielding pain. I recall that Mike had an operation to correct some type of nerve impingment in his neck that was so painful that he had to turn his whole body to look at you.
I donāt think there was any kind of coverup. I think that Mikeās death was entirely accidental, in the sense that he may have taken too many painkillers. He was in a great mood the last few times I had spoken with him, and was more up that he had been in a while. As for Ray, I do think he committed suicide. He and Mike had become closer than ever due to Rayās serious health problems, and Mike was taking care of his brother. I feel that after Mikeās death, Ray felt he had nothing to live for. Very tragic. Trust me, I knew those guys, and they were great guys. I miss them.
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I am sure I read that Mikeās nerve impingement was caused by a fall down the stairs in his apartment.
Mark
Ray told me he also had back issues. Debilitating at times. Heavy lifting takes a toll on the body.
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Ask Ronnie Coleman! Lol
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Steve - basically upper/lower split: mon + thurs workouts.
Thanks.
He himself blamed it on the extremely heavy 1/4 squats he and Ray used to do (1,000+ lbs).
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What Simon said. ^ Mike had told me he had bad neck issues from doing super heavy partial barbell squats.
From day one it seemed stupid to put a heavy bar across you neck and shoulders and go up and down with it.
Scott
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