Opinions? Comments? I think Lincoln’s war on the Confederate States ended what was created by the founding fathers.
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.
Considering that the the ideology of the southern states was diametrically opposed to the ideals embodied in the Declaration of Independence, his war was a necessary one. What do you mean by “it ended what was created by the founding fathers”?
[quote]Bismark wrote:
Considering that the the ideology of the southern states was diametrically opposed to the ideals embodied in the Declaration of Independence, his war was a necessary one. What do you mean by “it ended what was created by the founding fathers”? [/quote]
It made the Constitution merely a piece of parchment. The country was no longer ruled by law, but by men.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery. [/quote]
That was legally abolished on December 6, 1865, by the Thirteenth Amendment. The Civil War began in 1861.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery. [/quote]
That was legally abolished on December 6, 1865, by the Thirteenth Amendment. The Civil War began in 1861.[/quote]
Are you contending the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery. [/quote]
That was legally abolished on December 6, 1865, by the Thirteenth Amendment. The Civil War began in 1861.[/quote]
Are you contending the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?[/quote]
He’s contending that contrary to popular belief, it was not “the war to free the slaves.” Just a consequence of it.
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery. [/quote]
That was legally abolished on December 6, 1865, by the Thirteenth Amendment. The Civil War began in 1861.[/quote]
Are you contending the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?[/quote]
He’s contending that contrary to popular belief, it was not “the war to free the slaves.” Just a consequence of it.[/quote]
Lol, okay.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
Considering that the the ideology of the southern states was diametrically opposed to the ideals embodied in the Declaration of Independence, his war was a necessary one. What do you mean by “it ended what was created by the founding fathers”? [/quote]
It made the Constitution merely a piece of parchment. The country was no longer ruled by law, but by men.[/quote]
You write of law as if it was some sort of objective manifestation. It’s a set of institutionalized norms which are socially constructed. Actors obey laws for one or a combination of 3 reasons.
- Coercion - actors obey laws because they fear punishment.
- Self-interest - actors obey laws because they see it as in their interests to do so.
- Legitimacy - actors view laws as legitimate and obey them as such.
You are arguing that the Constitution, the law of the land, held preeminent authority. What you fail to understand is that authority absent of power and legitimacy is not authority at all.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery. [/quote]
That was legally abolished on December 6, 1865, by the Thirteenth Amendment. The Civil War began in 1861.[/quote]
Are you contending the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?[/quote]
He’s contending that contrary to popular belief, it was not “the war to free the slaves.” Just a consequence of it.[/quote]
Lol, okay.[/quote]
Do you believe otherwise?
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery. [/quote]
That was legally abolished on December 6, 1865, by the Thirteenth Amendment. The Civil War began in 1861.[/quote]
Are you contending the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?[/quote]
He’s contending that contrary to popular belief, it was not “the war to free the slaves.” Just a consequence of it.[/quote]
Lol, okay.[/quote]
Do you believe otherwise? [/quote]
Ah, ya.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery. [/quote]
That was legally abolished on December 6, 1865, by the Thirteenth Amendment. The Civil War began in 1861.[/quote]
Are you contending the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?[/quote]
He’s contending that contrary to popular belief, it was not “the war to free the slaves.” Just a consequence of it.[/quote]
Lol, okay.[/quote]
Do you believe otherwise? [/quote]
Ah, ya.[/quote]
Really? So the Civil War was fought primarily because the North wanted to liberate southern slaves and the South wanted to maintain the institution of slavery? What makes you believe this?
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery. [/quote]
That was legally abolished on December 6, 1865, by the Thirteenth Amendment. The Civil War began in 1861.[/quote]
Are you contending the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?[/quote]
He’s contending that contrary to popular belief, it was not “the war to free the slaves.” Just a consequence of it.[/quote]
Lol, okay.[/quote]
Do you believe otherwise? [/quote]
Ah, ya.[/quote]
Really? So the Civil War was fought primarily because the North wanted to liberate southern slaves and the South wanted to maintain the institution of slavery? What makes you believe this?[/quote]
Did I use the word primarily?
Did I say it was THE reason for the war?
Did I say it was the MAIN reason for the war?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery. [/quote]
That was legally abolished on December 6, 1865, by the Thirteenth Amendment. The Civil War began in 1861.[/quote]
Are you contending the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?[/quote]
He’s contending that contrary to popular belief, it was not “the war to free the slaves.” Just a consequence of it.[/quote]
Lol, okay.[/quote]
Do you believe otherwise? [/quote]
Ah, ya.[/quote]
Really? So the Civil War was fought primarily because the North wanted to liberate southern slaves and the South wanted to maintain the institution of slavery? What makes you believe this?[/quote]
Did I use the word primarily?
Did I say it was THE reason for the war?
Did I say it was the MAIN reason for the war?[/quote]
Me: He’s contending that contrary to popular belief, it was not “the war to free the slaves.” Just a consequence of it.
You: Lol, okay.
Me: Do you believe otherwise?
You: Ah, ya.
It’s rather implicit that you believe it was. Either that or you’re having a difficult time elucidating your position.
[quote]Bismark wrote:
You write of law as if it was some sort of objective manifestation. It’s a set of institutionalized norms which are socially constructed. Actors obey laws for one or a combination of 3 reasons.
- Coercion - actors obey laws because they fear punishment.
- Self-interest - actors obey laws because they see it as in their interests to do so.
- Legitimacy - actors view laws as legitimate and obey them as such.
You are arguing that the Constitution, the law of the land, held preeminent authority. What you fail to understand is that authority absent of power and legitimacy is not authority at all. [/quote]
I’m arguing that Lincoln ended the United States of America that was created by the founding fathers. Lincoln had the power and used it to coerce the Confederate states to comply with him. You argue that might makes right.
The MAIN reason people argue on PWI is because people don’t actually READ what is written. You inferred the above, it was not written.
It is not “rather implicit”
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I’d say it end one of the founding fathers few mistakes.[/quote]
Do you believe the founding fathers merely forgot to ban secession in the Constitution?[/quote]
I was talking about slavery. [/quote]
That was legally abolished on December 6, 1865, by the Thirteenth Amendment. The Civil War began in 1861.[/quote]
Are you contending the civil war had nothing to do with slavery?[/quote]
He’s contending that contrary to popular belief, it was not “the war to free the slaves.” Just a consequence of it.[/quote]
Lol, okay.[/quote]
Do you believe otherwise? [/quote]
Ah, ya.[/quote]
Really? So the Civil War was fought primarily because the North wanted to liberate southern slaves and the South wanted to maintain the institution of slavery? What makes you believe this?[/quote]
Did I use the word primarily?
Did I say it was THE reason for the war?
Did I say it was the MAIN reason for the war?[/quote]
Me: He’s contending that contrary to popular belief, it was not “the war to free the slaves.” Just a consequence of it.
You: Lol, okay.
Me: Do you believe otherwise?
You: Ah, ya.
It’s rather implicit that you believe it was. Either that or you’re having a difficult time elucidating your position.[/quote]
Lol, whatever.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]Bismark wrote:
You write of law as if it was some sort of objective manifestation. It’s a set of institutionalized norms which are socially constructed. Actors obey laws for one or a combination of 3 reasons.
- Coercion - actors obey laws because they fear punishment.
- Self-interest - actors obey laws because they see it as in their interests to do so.
- Legitimacy - actors view laws as legitimate and obey them as such.
You are arguing that the Constitution, the law of the land, held preeminent authority. What you fail to understand is that authority absent of power and legitimacy is not authority at all. [/quote]
I’m arguing that Lincoln ended the United States of America that was created by the founding fathers. Lincoln had the power and used it to coerce the Confederate states to comply with him. You argue that might makes right.
[/quote]
Where did your hard on for the law go? The Confederate states were engaged in an unlawful insurrection against the legitimate government of the United States. Lincoln had every right to make war upon them.
Show me an instance in history in which it does not. As the Athenians told the Melians during the Melian dialogue, “the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.” Force is the ultima ratio in politics.