Last time I checked, human rights don’t go away just because you aren’t in the majority. Ethnic minorities are “nonstandard”, people with disabilities are “nonstandard”, and fringe religious groups are “nonstandard”. The first two examples are genetic and the third is a choice, but in all cases people are entitled to equal rights under the law.[/quote]
Not saying anything about human rights - all I wanted to point out is that arguing on the “nature vs. nurture” reason for homosexuality is pointless. Shit, probably 100% of notorious serial killers have some genetic abnormalities, so, should they be let go?
Not comparing them to gays per se - just trying to get a point across.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Then you better have a long talk with about 70% of homosexual men.
[/quote]
well ZEB? Explanation of this?[/quote]
Inquiring minds would like to know…not that he’ll ever man up to admitting that he was called out.[/quote]
Still waiting for the response that you promised regarding the tons of information that I’ve posted. Dodging all of that with this nonsense is classic forliar stuff. It’s hard to believe but in the few years we’ve been doing this you’ve not only learned nothing (from anyone), you’ve actually somehow dumbed down.
Answer the posts forliar, the more you dodge the truth the worse you look. Just like your comrades you do yourself more harm than good.
Last time I checked, human rights don’t go away just because you aren’t in the majority. Ethnic minorities are “nonstandard”, people with disabilities are “nonstandard”, and fringe religious groups are “nonstandard”. The first two examples are genetic and the third is a choice, but in all cases people are entitled to equal rights under the law.[/quote]
Not saying anything about human rights - all I wanted to point out is that arguing on the “nature vs. nurture” reason for homosexuality is pointless. Shit, probably 100% of notorious serial killers have some genetic abnormalities, so, should they be let go?
Not comparing them to gays per se - just trying to get a point across.
[/quote]
I agree with you. Even if sexual orientation were a choice, people are entitled to the same rights regardless of what they choose.
Ironically, most of those whining about the evil gays have chosen to follow the religious right, and are the first to cry foul the moment they feel any kind of restriction on their exercise of religion.
That said, the medical and mental health organizations have concluded that sexual orientation is not a choice. You can choose your behavior, but you can’t choose who you find attractive.
And I’ll be happy to explain as soon as you explain away the tons of health related problems that gays not only spread among themselves but out into the heterosexual community as well.
Last time I checked, human rights don’t go away just because you aren’t in the majority. Ethnic minorities are “nonstandard”, people with disabilities are “nonstandard”, and fringe religious groups are “nonstandard”. The first two examples are genetic and the third is a choice, but in all cases people are entitled to equal rights under the law.[/quote]
Not saying anything about human rights - all I wanted to point out is that arguing on the “nature vs. nurture” reason for homosexuality is pointless. Shit, probably 100% of notorious serial killers have some genetic abnormalities, so, should they be let go?
Not comparing them to gays per se - just trying to get a point across.
[/quote]
I agree with you. Even if sexual orientation were a choice, people are entitled to the same rights [/quote]
You have the same rights as anyone else. We can both marry someone of the opposite sex. What YOU want are special rights. Special rights for a tiny group of people who abuse what rights they currently have. Hmm, not going to happen.
I agree and 85% of “homosexuals” have chosen to have sex with both men and women. That they “prefer” women is a choice NOT deserving a special consideration.
It seems that they should start by exercising good decision making regarding sexual intercourse instead of spreading more disease and causing more pain and mental anguish to themselves and others.
Last time I checked, human rights don’t go away just because you aren’t in the majority. Ethnic minorities are “nonstandard”, people with disabilities are “nonstandard”, and fringe religious groups are “nonstandard”. The first two examples are genetic and the third is a choice, but in all cases people are entitled to equal rights under the law.[/quote]
Not saying anything about human rights - all I wanted to point out is that arguing on the “nature vs. nurture” reason for homosexuality is pointless. Shit, probably 100% of notorious serial killers have some genetic abnormalities, so, should they be let go?
Not comparing them to gays per se - just trying to get a point across.
[/quote]
I agree with you. Even if sexual orientation were a choice, people are entitled to the same rights [/quote]
You have the same rights as anyone else. We can both marry someone of the opposite sex. What YOU want are special rights. Special rights for a tiny group of people who abuse what rights they currently have. Hmm, not going to happen.
I agree and 85% of “homosexuals” have chosen to have sex with both men and women. That they “prefer” women is a choice NOT deserving a special consideration.
It seems that they should start by exercising good decision making regarding sexual intercourse instead of spreading more disease and causing more pain and mental anguish to themselves and others.
[/quote]
your numbers don’t back up your theory. I’m guessing that most homosexuals have sex with an opposite sex partner early in life while they still haven’t come to terms with or are in active denial about their sexuality. I think a much smaller percentage swings both ways after coming out.
Zeb is fond of cherry picking statistics that support his preconceptions about gays, while ignoring other statistics, as well as the actual recommendations of the medical and mental health organizations providing those statistics. Classic confirmatory bias.
For example, he ignores the stats on STDs that are more common with heterosexuals than with gays. He also ignores the negative consequences uniquely associated with heterosexuals, like unwanted pregnancies and abortions.
Most importantly, he elevates himself above every major medical and mental health organization, as if his expertise and professional responsibility for the health of gays trumps the professionals. They are all biased, you see, because they say Zeb is dead wrong. Not only did the gays take over the APA, but they took over every other major medical and mental health organization in the world. It’s a vast gay conspiracy, I tell ya!
Hilarious. Even the CDC doesn’t agree with Zeb’s snake oil solutions for gays, and they’re the ones that provide the very statistics that he likes to quote. The CDC doesn’t tell gays to turn straight. They realize people can’t change their orientation, and that attempting to do so can actually be damaging. Instead, they tell people to embrace who they are AND live sexually responsible lives.
Of course, Zeb stops listening to the CDC at that point. He doesn’t really care about the facts. What he cares about is pushing his moral agenda, since he finds homosexuality to be repulsive and sinful.
Sorry Zeb, but this isn’t church and nobody cares what your religion thinks about gays.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Zeb is fond of cherry picking statistics that support his preconceptions about gays[/quote]
forliar you are living up to your name very well today. I’ve presented statistics from the CDC, and many, many other legitimate health organizations. I even made fun of you by stating “here are some statistics from the radical right wing Mayo Clinic…” You never reply to anything specific. You just ramble on about generalities. And you think people are that gullible? They see right through you and you’ve given more credence to the reason I call you forliar.
LOL homosexual men lead the way in HIV, gonorrhea, syphilis and clamidia and a host of other physical and mental disease. They are by far the least healthy group in the US. You know it and I know it. The difference is, you feel you have to lie about it, and I tell the truth.
You’ve slipped, you are just not as sharp as you used to be. Anyone can sanction a behavior, what does that take? Many in the APA want to remove pedophilia from the DSM list, did you know that? What does that tell you about the hold that certain groups have over the APA?
But that’s not even the topic that we’re on. I’m talking about the disease that homosexual’s suffer and spread to other gays and hetero’s alike, and what to do about it. I am bringing up politically incorrect problems and you stand there all starry eyed giving me politically correct answers which are not solutions. What’s the first victim of political correctness? Remember? The truth.
Name one “snake oil solution” that I’ve suggested. I’m pointing out facts and you are either running from them or lying about them.
Once again the name “forliar” fits you well. Show me one time that I said the CDC told gays to turn straight? That doesn’t even make sense. Whey would the CDC (an organization that collects medical statistics) make a recommendation for gays to turn straight. Now show me where I said this or apologize for being a liar, forliar.
I am the one who does care about the facts. You are the one who wants to enable gay men to kill each other. You are a disgrace to your own people forliar, a total disgrace.
And I have not mentioned religion once unless I was asked. This is independent from anyones belief system. These are cold hard facts which you continue to be unable to address. You’ve probably not even read the lengthy posts where major medical health organizations speak of the many disease’s that homosexual’s have, both physical and emotional. And that includes places like the Netherlands where homosexual marriage has been legal for many years. In the Netherlands HIV and STD’s depression, bulimia, substance abuse, are even suicide is still just as high among gays as it is in the US. What happened to embracing homosexuality as being the cure for these things? Your entire argument falls apart like a house of cards when the facts roll in buddy!
Like any snake in the grass, as soon as the light is shined on you, you slither away to find a rock to hide under. You attempt to change the topic as soon as you see that the facts cannot be defended. Your answer’s are weak and ineffective. Your evasion tactics transparent.
The burden of proof is on you to show that every single one of the major medical and mental health organizations has been hijacked by the homosexuals, that they have thrown professional integrity and responsibility to the wind, and that they really don’t know what they’re talking about.
I have never once disputed your cherry picked stats from the CDC. What I’ve disputed are your interpretation of those stats, your thoroughness and fairness in presenting other stats that you would rather not discuss, and most importantly your conclusions based on those stats.
You keep harping on the APA, as if they are the only professional organization that says you are wrong. They aren’t. They know the stats far better than you do, and every single one of these organizations unanimously says that you are wrong.
You’re a broken record forliar. But the problem is you’re playing the wrong tune. I gave you stat after stat, now run along and think about how you want to answer each of the problems that plague homosexuals world wide.
Here let me kick start your truth program. For many years you’ve been blaming all of the problems in the homosexual community on people not being more accepting of the gay lifestyle. Begin by answering the following question.
1-Why are homosexuals in the Netherlands, where gay marriage has been legal for many years still plagued with the same high rates of HIV, STD’s, drug abuse, eating disorders and a host of other mental and physical illnesses that effect gays in the US?
When you are finished with a satisfactory answer for the above question I have at least an additional 50 more for you.
It’s always hard to catch a snake because they are slimy and they slither to avoid your grasp.
1-Why are homosexuals in the Netherlands, where gay marriage has been legal for many years still plagued with the same high rates of HIV, STD’s, drug abuse, eating disorders and a host of other mental and physical illnesses that effect gays in the US?
[/quote]
A. You answer about none of the questions directed at you ZEB.
B.Despite that I’ll respond to your question
prejudice?
genetic predisposition?
who cares?
The responsible ones should still be able to get married and live free from harassment. Homosexuality is a fact of human life get over it. Male sexuality is problematic.
sarcasm:
Did you know that 99% of all rapes are committed by men? Clearly all men should not be able to get married until those that are rapey can control their sexuality. Clearly.
/sarcasm
1-Why are homosexuals in the Netherlands, where gay marriage has been legal for many years still plagued with the same high rates of HIV, STD’s, drug abuse, eating disorders and a host of other mental and physical illnesses that effect gays in the US?
who cares?[/quote]
You can do better than that. This is the sort of response I’d expect from forliar. Of course you two do have other similarities. Hmm.
I wouldn’t have to be a broken record if you answered my points instead of pretending that ignoring them would make them disappear.
So how about it, Zeb? Still waiting for the “proof” that you know more than every major medical and mental health organization in the world.
They’re well aware of your cherry picked stats, and they unanimously conclude that you are flat out wrong in your conclusions based on those stats.
As I’ve said over and over again, yes a segment of the gay population is sexually irresponsible. But you’re an idiot if you think that telling everyone to be heterosexual will magically fix the issue. The answer is for people to be sexually responsible, not for people to try changing their orientation. Attempting to do so DOUBLES the risk of depression, drug abuse, and suicidal thoughts. Do you really want that on your conscience?
And I already addressed your question on the Netherlands. Passing an equal rights law doesn’t eradicate homophobia. You can’t legislate the way people think. If the US were to allow gay marriage starting tomorrow, I guarantee homophobes like you wouldn’t change your view of gays. To the contrary, you would probably fight even harder to shame gays into denying who they really are. Despite the civil rights laws of the 60s, we continue to see blatant bigotry toward racial minorities 50 years later.
[quote]forlife wrote:
I wouldn’t have to be a broken record if you answered my points instead of pretending that ignoring them would make them disappear.[/quote]
Forliar the snake is at it again. I lay out multiple pages of questions for you to respond to and what do you do? You take a page out of the politically correct playbook; “the best defense is offense. When they hit you with something that makes sense and you can’t answer, just keep pushing them and ignore their logical argument.” Nice Job forliar - you have not helped anyone today but you have slithered around a lot. LOL
I have news for you forliar. I don’t have to cherry pick anything. There is literally not one good health statistic listed on the CDC regarding men who have sex with men. Sad but true. Why don’t you go to the CDC and read some of the statistics since you won’t read or respond to anything that I’ve posted. Afraid? Yeah I understand.
Hold on there forliar. You are slithering once again. Over half of all new HIV cases are from men who have sex with men. That’s a pretty big negative impact on society. It doesn’t matter to me if represents 100% of homosexuals or .00000000001%. The fact is if it were not for homosexuals there would be no AIDS epidemic. Now as far as the many other disease that is rampant in the homosexual community I’d say it’s quite a bit more than a small percent. STD’s, anxiety, drug use, bulimia, suicide, anal cancer (gee how does that one happen?) Yeah you guys are the epitome of the picture of health. I’d have a good laugh at you and your upside down logic if it were not so horrible.
I must say that you are more than earning the forliar name in this post. Tell me exactly where I said that I want everyone to be heterosexual? Show me, or apologize for lying. No wait, if I started making you apologize everytime you lied that’s all we’d be doing. I never said that and I don’t believe that so knock it off forliar.
[quote]And I already addressed your question on the Netherlands. Passing an equal rights law doesn’t eradicate homophobia. You can’t legislate the way people think. If the US were to allow gay marriage starting tomorrow, I guarantee homophobes like you wouldn’t change your view of gays. To the contrary, you would probably fight even harder to shame gays into denying who they really are. Despite the civil rights laws of the 60s, we continue to see blatant bigotry toward racial minorities 50 years later.
[/quote]
Oh I see, it’s people like me who live in the Netherlands and the US that make homosexuals have unprotected sex, which leads to the sky high rates of STD’s, HIV and many other diseases. Do you realize how empty you sound when you talk like that? All you have is name calling and other such nonsense.
Zeb: “Over half of all new IV in the US is from homosexual men, and they only represent about 1.5 million people. This is horrible we’ve got to do something to save these poor folks.”
forlife: “Homophobe.”
Got it forliar, I’ll keep posting the facts and trying to figure out what to do about it and you keep calling me names. Now whose side are you on again?
Sounds like you’re backpedaling from our previous conversations, which if true is actually a good thing.
Are you now saying that you don’t recommend gays try to change their orientation?
Maybe those stats about trying to change one’s orientation doubling the risk of depression, alcohol/drug abuse, and suicidal thoughts are finally starting to sink in.
Maybe, but I doubt it. Given your revulsion toward homosexuality, I would be shocked to see such a dramatic shift. But hey, one can always hope.
You brought up the Netherlands as “proof” that homophobia and societal rejection don’t contribute to the depression and suicide stats for gays. I simply called you on it. Passing a gay marriage law is a positive step, but it would be naive to assume that all the bigots would disappear after the law was passed, any more than racial bigots disappeared when the anti-miscegenation laws were struck down. True cultural acceptance takes a long time, but equal rights under the law is a good first step.
P.S. You’re not a homophobe because you want to help those in the gay community that are living sexually irresponsible lives. I’ve said repeatedly that I share your concerns, and strongly support responsible sex practices, irrespective of a person’s sexuality.
The reasons you’re a homophobe are that:
You are fundamentally opposed to homosexuality, and find it repulsive and morally reprehensible even when people are living sexually responsible lives
You cherry pick stats that support your preconceptions about gays, and use those stats to draw sweeping derisive conclusions about all gays
You don’t support equal civil rights for gays
You stubbornly ignore the unanimous conclusions of every major health organization, insisting that every single one of them is dishonest and politically corrupt, else they couldn’t possibly reach conclusions about homosexuality that directly contradict your own
You encourage gays to undergo reparative therapy, despite the documented failure rate and high risk of depression, drug abuse, and suicidal thoughts following this therapy (maybe you’ve changed your tune on this one, but I doubt it)
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sounds like you’re backpedaling from our previous conversations, which if true is actually a good thing.
Are you now saying that you don’t recommend gays try to change their orientation?[/quote]
This debate is about how many physical and mental ailments gays inflict on themselves and what we can do to help them. As if you didn’t know.
Maybe you live in a glass bubble forlife, I don’t know. But, here’s a clue for you, most heterosexual men find the idea of two men having sex disgusting. I think that there is a natural built in mechanism that kicks in, sort of like seeing a crushed animal by the side of the road. Sorry forlife, but what you do is outside the norm you cannot expect people to embrace it. What you can expect however is for people to treat you fairly and respect your rights. But I want to go above and beyond. Why not try to find ways to keep them safe and healthy? By the way I find what my uncle does disgusting too, he’s a mortician. So when you are throwing around your hate speech keep in mind that no one has to embrace what you do to actually practice tolerance and even beyond.
But here’s the real problem, in the Netherlands where gay marriage has been the law for several years homosexual men still have as high a rate of HIV and STD’s as in the US. What does that have to do with acceptance? They still harm themselves at the same rate either way.