The Killing Joke

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
261

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

You’re right Christians have never done wrong.

[/quote]

Only a radically obsessed anti-Christian – to the point of sheer rabidness – would sum up his contributions to this thread with this statement.

And yes, it is your summary. You have nothing whatsoever of value to add here. You’re dismissed from class.

  • You can’t even punctuate your pathetic sentence correctly.
    [/quote]

Not sure if you’re aware, but the poster whose English you are insulting is French.[/quote]

Was unaware of his nationality. I will cut him some slack in that regard.

His arguments get none, however.[/quote]

No, I’m from Canada. I’m in the office so I’m multitasking. My writing abilities are not that good anyway.
[/quote]

And the virtual epileptic fit you’re throwing about 11th century Catholic Church transgressions ain’t all that good either when it comes to explaining beastly thuggery in 2015 Paris.[/quote]

You’re missing the point. I’m not in support of these terrorists. And I will not vilify all Muslim people. There are a lot of bad people today who use Islam has means brainwash and do evil. The same happened with Christianity. So when Christians come on here saying look how evil their religion is they seem to forget the evil past of their religion. Islam is young compared to Christianity and Judaism. Both Christianity and Judaism had there dark times and as the religion aged the people found a different means in the texts. These texts are all open to interpretation. [/quote]

So you are saying that Christianity and Judaism have become enlightened and Islam of today is the equivalent of the dark violent times in Christianity several hundred years ago? So to summarize, Current Christianity and Judaism, not violent, current Islam, violent? [/quote]

Christianity and Judaism not as violent as they used to be but still are. Islam and the moment has a lot of radicals. But you have to look at the areas in which these people live. A lot of them are born into war. Look at the US. I’m sure if you go to low income areas where crime is high i bet you will find a lot of Christians there committing violent crimes. But again this comes down to the human aspect. Humans can be evil, regardless of religion.
[/quote]

Are they committing these crimes in the name of Christianity like our bearded Islamic brethren?

I fear not.
[/quote]

I responded to your question on page 7 in case you missed it.

262

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

Look at the US. I’m sure if you go to low income areas where crime is high i bet you will find a lot of Christians there committing violent crimes. But again this comes down to the human aspect. Humans can be evil, regardless of religion.

[/quote]

The people committing the crime who might be Christians are generally not holding up a bible claiming the bible is the justification for the crime or serves the will of god, at least not in your example. I’d agree that condemning individual muslims for acts of violence that they didn’t commit is unfair, but I don’t think its unfair to look at a book that authorizes killing infidels when that book is being invoked as justification for the killing–with arguable textual support contained in the plain text of the book–and conclude that the book itself might be part of the problem.
[/quote]

And this is where the Christian past comes in. The bible was once used to do the same. It’s all words. it can be interpreted in many ways. It’s amazing when posters post a quote or say something about the bible the Christians go crazy claiming you have to have studied the bible carefully to understand it because it can be taken out of context. And yet here people are claiming to know the context of the Koran when they have not studied it.

Now i can guarantee if a Muslim man in the US murders someone not in the name of his faith it will be twisted by people and turned into a religious issue and all Muslims get vilified. And that is what a lot of Christians do. But when a man, who happens to be Christian, murders his religion is left of it.

263

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

You’re right Christians have never done wrong.

[/quote]

Only a radically obsessed anti-Christian – to the point of sheer rabidness – would sum up his contributions to this thread with this statement.

And yes, it is your summary. You have nothing whatsoever of value to add here. You’re dismissed from class.

  • You can’t even punctuate your pathetic sentence correctly.
    [/quote]

Not sure if you’re aware, but the poster whose English you are insulting is French.[/quote]

Was unaware of his nationality. I will cut him some slack in that regard.

His arguments get none, however.[/quote]

No, I’m from Canada. I’m in the office so I’m multitasking. My writing abilities are not that good anyway.
[/quote]

And the virtual epileptic fit you’re throwing about 11th century Catholic Church transgressions ain’t all that good either when it comes to explaining beastly thuggery in 2015 Paris.[/quote]

You’re missing the point. I’m not in support of these terrorists. And I will not vilify all Muslim people. There are a lot of bad people today who use Islam has means brainwash and do evil. The same happened with Christianity. So when Christians come on here saying look how evil their religion is they seem to forget the evil past of their religion. Islam is young compared to Christianity and Judaism. Both Christianity and Judaism had there dark times and as the religion aged the people found a different means in the texts. These texts are all open to interpretation. [/quote]

So you are saying that Christianity and Judaism have become enlightened and Islam of today is the equivalent of the dark violent times in Christianity several hundred years ago? So to summarize, Current Christianity and Judaism, not violent, current Islam, violent? [/quote]

Christianity and Judaism not as violent as they used to be but still are. Islam and the moment has a lot of radicals. But you have to look at the areas in which these people live. A lot of them are born into war. Look at the US. I’m sure if you go to low income areas where crime is high i bet you will find a lot of Christians there committing violent crimes. But again this comes down to the human aspect. Humans can be evil, regardless of religion.
[/quote]

Are they committing these crimes in the name of Christianity like our bearded Islamic brethren?

I fear not.
[/quote]

I think my post above to jjackkrash somewhat addresses your question.

264

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

So this is a literacy problem?[/quote]

Yes. Not necessarily literacy of written communication in 100% of the cases, but literacy in a hyperbolic sense, yes.

Literacy of soul, conviction, sense, awareness, control…

Yes. Also add in oppressive governments, and a church that holds the vast majority of the worlds literate people, let alone scholars, and leaders with power problems. You have a desperate population, who looks to the church leaders for guidance, and those leaders spread ill.

For about the 300th time, the actual religion had nothing to do with it. The issue lies with the people who wore the robe and used the power it held for evil.

But then your response would be “but you’re white and whites held slaves in the US” if you were being consistent.

[quote] But just because that practitioner has labeled himself…lets say “Christian”…is it then fair to vilify all Christians?
[/quote]

We agree labeling all Muslims the same as terrorists is wrong. But I’m not ignoring the common theme that pops up more often than not.

265

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

Look at the US. I’m sure if you go to low income areas where crime is high i bet you will find a lot of Christians there committing violent crimes. But again this comes down to the human aspect. Humans can be evil, regardless of religion.

[/quote]

The people committing the crime who might be Christians are generally not holding up a bible claiming the bible is the justification for the crime or serves the will of god, at least not in your example. I’d agree that condemning individual muslims for acts of violence that they didn’t commit is unfair, but I don’t think its unfair to look at a book that authorizes killing infidels when that book is being invoked as justification for the killing–with arguable textual support contained in the plain text of the book–and conclude that the book itself might be part of the problem.
[/quote]

And this is where the Christian past comes in. The bible was once used to do the same. It’s all words. it can be interpreted in many ways. It’s amazing when posters post a quote or say something about the bible the Christians go crazy claiming you have to have studied the bible carefully to understand it because it can be taken out of context. And yet here people are claiming to know the context of the Koran when they have not studied it.

[/quote]

Its not my job to study their book or know its context. I don’t believe it is the word of god and I have better things, IMO, to study to better myself. But the book says what it says and people are taking the plain language of the text and using it to justify killing infidels. So, again, I think its fair for me to look at the book and look at the actions being justified by the book and think maybe the book is part of the problem.

266

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

Look at the US. I’m sure if you go to low income areas where crime is high i bet you will find a lot of Christians there committing violent crimes. But again this comes down to the human aspect. Humans can be evil, regardless of religion.

[/quote]

The people committing the crime who might be Christians are generally not holding up a bible claiming the bible is the justification for the crime or serves the will of god, at least not in your example. I’d agree that condemning individual muslims for acts of violence that they didn’t commit is unfair, but I don’t think its unfair to look at a book that authorizes killing infidels when that book is being invoked as justification for the killing–with arguable textual support contained in the plain text of the book–and conclude that the book itself might be part of the problem.
[/quote]

And this is where the Christian past comes in. The bible was once used to do the same. It’s all words. it can be interpreted in many ways. It’s amazing when posters post a quote or say something about the bible the Christians go crazy claiming you have to have studied the bible carefully to understand it because it can be taken out of context. And yet here people are claiming to know the context of the Koran when they have not studied it.

[/quote]

Its not my job to study their book or know its context. I don’t believe it is the word of god and I have better things, IMO, to study to better myself. But the book says what it says and people are taking the plain language of the text and using it to justify killing infidels. So, again, I think its fair for me to look at the book and look at the actions being justified by the book and think maybe the book is part of the problem.
[/quote]

I didn’t say you should study it. if the Koran is a problem so too is the bible.

268

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

Look at the US. I’m sure if you go to low income areas where crime is high i bet you will find a lot of Christians there committing violent crimes. But again this comes down to the human aspect. Humans can be evil, regardless of religion.

[/quote]

The people committing the crime who might be Christians are generally not holding up a bible claiming the bible is the justification for the crime or serves the will of god, at least not in your example. I’d agree that condemning individual muslims for acts of violence that they didn’t commit is unfair, but I don’t think its unfair to look at a book that authorizes killing infidels when that book is being invoked as justification for the killing–with arguable textual support contained in the plain text of the book–and conclude that the book itself might be part of the problem.
[/quote]

And this is where the Christian past comes in. The bible was once used to do the same. It’s all words. it can be interpreted in many ways. It’s amazing when posters post a quote or say something about the bible the Christians go crazy claiming you have to have studied the bible carefully to understand it because it can be taken out of context. And yet here people are claiming to know the context of the Koran when they have not studied it.

[/quote]

Its not my job to study their book or know its context. I don’t believe it is the word of god and I have better things, IMO, to study to better myself. But the book says what it says and people are taking the plain language of the text and using it to justify killing infidels. So, again, I think its fair for me to look at the book and look at the actions being justified by the book and think maybe the book is part of the problem.
[/quote]

I didn’t say you should study it. if the Koran is a problem so too is the bible.[/quote]

Ok, how so. How is the bible being used to justify terrorism at this particular time in history. Show me where that’s happening on anything resembling a comparable scale and I’ll make the exact same criticism.

269

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

So this is a literacy problem?[/quote]

Yes. Not necessarily literacy of written communication in 100% of the cases, but literacy in a hyperbolic sense, yes.

Literacy of soul, conviction, sense, awareness, control…

Yes. Also add in oppressive governments, and a church that holds the vast majority of the worlds literate people, let alone scholars, and leaders with power problems. You have a desperate population, who looks to the church leaders for guidance, and those leaders spread ill.

For about the 300th time, the actual religion had nothing to do with it. The issue lies with the people who wore the robe and used the power it held for evil.

But then your response would be “but you’re white and whites held slaves in the US” if you were being consistent.

[quote] But just because that practitioner has labeled himself…lets say “Christian”…is it then fair to vilify all Christians?
[/quote]

We agree labeling all Muslims the same as terrorists is wrong. But I’m not ignoring the common theme that pops up more often than not.
[/quote]

So is literacy a problem in Islam? Are the leaders taking advantage of this?

I don’t know where you go off thinking you know what my response will be but clearly you got it wrong. I’ve clearly stated numerous times that vilifying all people of a certain group because of the act of others in that group is wrong and you’ve agreed to that. but you here you thinking my repose would be to vilify all white people because some whites had slaves.

270

[quote]hmm87 wrote:
if the Koran is a problem so too is the bible.[/quote]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

NO, it isn’t. For fucks sake.

Name all the people who used the bible to justify killing innocent people in the last 3 years. Then, if it tops the number of dead people slaughtered by ISIS alone on youtube, you might have a point.

You seem like a bright enough guy, why the hell can’t you see the fallacy of your argument? (AC made the same one, but he hates Christians and Christianity with the passion of a 1000 suns so it is expected.)

271

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

So is literacy a problem in Islam? Are the leaders taking advantage of this?[/quote]

I thought I was clear when I said yes above.

You’re half right. The above applies to Muslims. However your repeated “but the Christians were bad a couple hundred years ago” nonsense means the above post does NOT apply to Christians. Otherwise you’d willingly acknowledge that people now have zero to do with what Christians did hundreds of years ago, and now aren’t in any way comparable to Muslims in the context of terrorism.

Again, I expect AC to not acknowledge that, because of his bias. You saying your just as biased?

[quote]but you here you thinking my repose would be to vilify all white people because some whites had slaves.
[/quote]

If you didn’t keep bringing up irrelevant shit I wouldn’t know that you’d do it on any topic, not just this one.

272

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

Look at the US. I’m sure if you go to low income areas where crime is high i bet you will find a lot of Christians there committing violent crimes. But again this comes down to the human aspect. Humans can be evil, regardless of religion.

[/quote]

The people committing the crime who might be Christians are generally not holding up a bible claiming the bible is the justification for the crime or serves the will of god, at least not in your example. I’d agree that condemning individual muslims for acts of violence that they didn’t commit is unfair, but I don’t think its unfair to look at a book that authorizes killing infidels when that book is being invoked as justification for the killing–with arguable textual support contained in the plain text of the book–and conclude that the book itself might be part of the problem.
[/quote]

And this is where the Christian past comes in. The bible was once used to do the same. It’s all words. it can be interpreted in many ways. It’s amazing when posters post a quote or say something about the bible the Christians go crazy claiming you have to have studied the bible carefully to understand it because it can be taken out of context. And yet here people are claiming to know the context of the Koran when they have not studied it.

[/quote]

Its not my job to study their book or know its context. I don’t believe it is the word of god and I have better things, IMO, to study to better myself. But the book says what it says and people are taking the plain language of the text and using it to justify killing infidels. So, again, I think its fair for me to look at the book and look at the actions being justified by the book and think maybe the book is part of the problem.
[/quote]

I didn’t say you should study it. if the Koran is a problem so too is the bible.[/quote]

Ok, how so. How is the bible being used to justify terrorism at this particular time in history. Show me where that’s happening on anything resembling a comparable scale and I’ll make the exact same criticism.
[/quote]

The bible was used for terrorism in the past in the same manner the Koran is being used today. It could be used again. But no it is not at this particular time in history.

273

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Any person who truly desires a secular society must want laws against everything from murder to rape to robbery thrown out.
[/quote]

Those are bad examples, simply not wanting to be the victim of those crimes is enough to want it illegal. [/quote]

But, secularly, your want is just the expression of chemical reactions in your brain. There is no reason what you want is any more right than what you don’t want. You are expressing laws as the natural outcome of physical parameters, NOT the result of moral judgments about what should or shouldn’t be. And there are plenty of counter examples anyway. Suicide by cop for example. And even whole societies that don’t agree with you. Why is your want the good one and other people and societies wants the bad ones?[/quote]

I never said my want is the good or bad one. You said secularly there is no good or evil so why bring it up when I am talking about a reason for secular laws?

274

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:
if the Koran is a problem so too is the bible.[/quote]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

NO, it isn’t. For fucks sake.

Name all the people who used the bible to justify killing innocent people in the last 3 years. Then, if it tops the number of dead people slaughtered by ISIS alone on youtube, you might have a point.

You seem like a bright enough guy, why the hell can’t you see the fallacy of your argument? (AC made the same one, but he hates Christians and Christianity with the passion of a 1000 suns so it is expected.)[/quote]

Wow just the last 3 years? How convenient for you. People have justified killing innocent people in the past with the bible. That’s a fact. Because it hasn’t happened in a while doesn’t erase that fact.

275

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

So is literacy a problem in Islam? Are the leaders taking advantage of this?[/quote]

I thought I was clear when I said yes above.

You’re half right. The above applies to Muslims. However your repeated “but the Christians were bad a couple hundred years ago” nonsense means the above post does NOT apply to Christians. Otherwise you’d willingly acknowledge that people now have zero to do with what Christians did hundreds of years ago, and now aren’t in any way comparable to Muslims in the context of terrorism.

Again, I expect AC to not acknowledge that, because of his bias. You saying your just as biased?

[quote]but you here you thinking my repose would be to vilify all white people because some whites had slaves.
[/quote]

If you didn’t keep bringing up irrelevant shit I wouldn’t know that you’d do it on any topic, not just this one.
[/quote]

You’re just arguing in circles. I’m using christains in the same manner you’re using muslims to show you how stupid it is.

276

OK I’m done for the day. Will reply tomorrow if there’s anything to reply to. No hard feelings towards anyone hope i didn’t come off that way.

277

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JR249 wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

Do you think a non Christian could be elected as president in America?[/quote]

In 2016 and beyond, yes, I do personally. In previous elections, perhaps not so much.
[/quote]

Why this response when a non-Christian has already been elected in 2008 and 2012?[/quote]

An overt non-Christian. [/quote]

Even though he’s on record saying nice Christian-like things, Thomas Jefferson was known to be a deist and accused of being anti-Christian by his contemporary detractors.[/quote]

I don’t know how I forgot about him, considering I own a Jefferson bible. The number of Americans who are aware of his deism is small indeed. I doubt that 1 in 20 Americans even know what deism is.
[/quote]

Christianity was the fundamental framework through which the colonists lived their lives. It dominated every aspect of their lives and the social structures of their communities. When they went to the polls in 1800 they were voting for decentralisation and a pro-French policy against the incumbent federalists. Jefferson’s personal religious convictions were unimportant to the voters. My point was, hmm87 suggested that a non-Christian could not get elected. I was saying that yes, a non-Christian could get elected today - indeed, for the vast majority of Christians Barack Obama is not believed to be a practicing Christian. His support is as low as 17% amongst Mormons for example. Obama is widely seen as an anti-Christian President and some even believe he’s a Muslim. So yes today. And yes back Jefferson’s day.
[/quote]

A better question would just be do you think a practicing jewish/buddhist/muslim/hindu could get elected (listed in order of % of our population). There is too much grey area between an atheist and a bad practicing member of a religion.

278

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Any person who truly desires a secular society must want laws against everything from murder to rape to robbery thrown out.
[/quote]

Those are bad examples, simply not wanting to be the victim of those crimes is enough to want it illegal. [/quote]

But, secularly, your want is just the expression of chemical reactions in your brain. There is no reason what you want is any more right than what you don’t want. You are expressing laws as the natural outcome of physical parameters, NOT the result of moral judgments about what should or shouldn’t be. And there are plenty of counter examples anyway. Suicide by cop for example. And even whole societies that don’t agree with you. Why is your want the good one and other people and societies wants the bad ones?[/quote]

I never said my want is the good or bad one. You said secularly there is no good or evil so why bring it up when I am talking about a reason for secular laws?

[/quote]

But my point is, you didn’t give a reason. You gave a statement of what sometimes is and sometimes isn’t. You can just as easily have people that want murder and write (or don’t write) their secular laws to reflect that. Secularity doesn’t lead to any specific laws. You haven’t added anything to the observation of what already is and isn’t.

But even in your use of the word want, you are describing what is generally outside of the secular realm. Unless of course you actually were referring to the physics of the human brain when you mentioned what you want (which would be a very uncommon usage). But again, if that is your definition you are describing law as the result of precise physical circumstance. For example, it’s like saying “things fall” is a reason for gravity. It’s not, that would be the result.

279

750×600 59 KB

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

Wow just the last 3 years? How convenient for you. People have justified killing innocent people in the past with the bible. That’s a fact. Because it hasn’t happened in a while doesn’t erase that fact.
[/quote]

280

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JR249 wrote:

[quote]hmm87 wrote:

Do you think a non Christian could be elected as president in America?[/quote]

In 2016 and beyond, yes, I do personally. In previous elections, perhaps not so much.
[/quote]

Why this response when a non-Christian has already been elected in 2008 and 2012?[/quote]

An overt non-Christian. [/quote]

Even though he’s on record saying nice Christian-like things, Thomas Jefferson was known to be a deist and accused of being anti-Christian by his contemporary detractors.[/quote]

I don’t know how I forgot about him, considering I own a Jefferson bible. The number of Americans who are aware of his deism is small indeed. I doubt that 1 in 20 Americans even know what deism is.
[/quote]

Christianity was the fundamental framework through which the colonists lived their lives. It dominated every aspect of their lives and the social structures of their communities. When they went to the polls in 1800 they were voting for decentralisation and a pro-French policy against the incumbent federalists. Jefferson’s personal religious convictions were unimportant to the voters. My point was, hmm87 suggested that a non-Christian could not get elected. I was saying that yes, a non-Christian could get elected today - indeed, for the vast majority of Christians Barack Obama is not believed to be a practicing Christian. His support is as low as 17% amongst Mormons for example. Obama is widely seen as an anti-Christian President and some even believe he’s a Muslim. So yes today. And yes back Jefferson’s day.
[/quote]

A better question would just be do you think a practicing jewish/buddhist/muslim/hindu could get elected (listed in order of % of our population). There is too much grey area between an atheist and a bad practicing member of a religion.[/quote]

Jewish, maybe, Muslim, yes, if he was black democrat and wasn’t too overt with it (as non-PC as that is to say), the others, no.