The Israel / Hamas Conflict

[squating_bear]

@doogie

@squating_bear

To the extent that Israel exercises control is the extent to which Israel has responsibility. And it is quite a bit.

Israel only exercises ANY control because if they don’t, they are attacked by genocidal maniacs who want to wipe them from the face of the Earth.

That’s the only reason they exercise ANY control you say. I don’t believe you. I think there’s other reasons.

I posted earlier a video of Palestinian Christians with an opposing testimony which carries way more weight with me than yours does

[doogie]

@squating_bear

I posted earlier a video of Palestinian Christians with an opposing testimony

The one from Al Jazeera?

[Reichsritter]

When it suits them, Israel allows the docile American to make fun of rural muslims behind his computer screen for a few months.

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

You’re right. I did, in fact, ask the entirety of israel if it was okay to post these before I did.

I am a Jewish slave.

[Reichsritter]

Too bad “the greater good” turned out to be the waste product of an equus ferus caballus. It was only about profit.
Because of that, America and in extension the whole west is in a terrible state. It’s lies all the way down, the fall is inevitable.

[mnben87]

@Silyak

@squating_bear

I have not said that Israel is responsible for making Gaza livable, Israel is responsible to the degree to which it makes Gaza less livable

And if I eat a sandwich, I have reduced the world’s food supply and am in some small way responsible for starving children in Africa.

But why do you think Israel is in particular responsible for the situation in Gaza? Egypt also has a border with Gaza. Gaza also has a coast. But only Israeli women and children are being raped and tortured.

And @squating_bear, at least to me, neither side has been a good neighbor. They have both made things difficult on each other. We can discuss who has been better or worse. Saying one side is solely the aggressor and one the victim is wrong IMO (which isn’t exactly what is being discussed I realize, but it’s close).

With regards to the current event, Hamas is at fault. That doesn’t mean that only Palestine or Hamas has been the only aggressor for roughly the last century.

[Bauber]

I am for wiping Hamas out and Israel should just take Palestine.

Might makes right. Israel has kept the kid gloves on for far too long.

Israel should have taken the option to move to NM / Arizona long ago and we could just glass the middle east and send the robots in to mine the oil. The entire area is nothing but a home base to grow and send terrorists / Islam out into the world.

You can’t fight or win over an ingrained ideology. The only way to beat it is to eradicate everyone that holds it.

I mean if everyone wants to put up with Islamic terrorism forever - cool.

[Bauber]

@mnben87

With regards to the current event, Hamas is at fault. That doesn’t mean that only Palestine or Hamas has been the only aggressor for roughly the last century.

There is a huge distinction I think you are missing.

Israel could easily genocide and could have for decades all of Palestine, but has not.

Palestine could not do that to Israel, but would given the positions were reversed.

Just because you are incapable of doing something - that does not give you the moral high ground.

Like a weak pussy man that can’t harm anyone - he is not peaceful. He is a weak pussy by design.

[cyclonengineer]

@squating_bear

pecifically because my point was that responsibility has degrees and limits

fine - the culpability and responsibility for that action is solely in the landlord in that case (clearly).

@RT_Nomad

This value was accepted by the masses with very few, mostly silent voices, exceptions.

What’s the more costly option in terms of total human lives in the long run? Let Hamas continue to amass weapons/power and launch at-will attacks on Israel - or have the IDF go in and eradicate the problem?
Both outcomes suck. Both harm people. I don’t think anyone in Israel takes the decision lightly.
As usual, innocent people on both sides have already been caught in the crossfire.

@doogie

The one from Al Jazeera?

No way that one is biased…

@mnben87

With regards to the current event, Hamas is at fault. That doesn’t mean that only Palestine or Hamas has been the only aggressor for roughly the last century.

Bingo

[mnben87]

I don’t disagree with you. We are comparing groups of people of which one has fairly secular values and is far more advanced with tech, to a backwards (by Western standards), and poor society.

I don’t think that means Israel is only good, or just a victim in the past.

[lamehack]

i love those topics where everyone has random, mostly uneducated opinions. (or they derive from decades of brainwashing, especially USA). not claiming mine is educated either, but:

• both sides hate each other
• the avg Joe, as always, suffers
• big pro-israhell movement in the USA, mostly due to some nonsensical ‘chosen people’ beliefs by many evangelicals, ‘whoever blesses israhell will be blessed’, those times are long done with however
• the USA with the failing dollar and rainbow flag tainted military has little chance of going against iran/russia/china
• average bread eaters like me and you will of course suffer the consequences

it appears that his entire circus will deeply divide the world, and even people within the usa. which is a welcome for the globalist masters ofc.
this time around it won’t be enough for israhell to pull of the holocaust victim card and they will suffer great losses under this war as the opposition is very strong
i personally won’t move a fucking finger for anyone in this war and most likely bunker down in my countryside bug out residence when the financial system collapses or move out of the country if possible (got roots elsewhere)

[cyclonengineer]

@lamehack

-israhell

clearly unbiased too spelling it this way repeatedly, come on dude.

I agree that either way other countries should stay the F out of this local conflict.

@lamehack

mostly due to some nonsensical ‘chosen people’ beliefs by many evangelicals, ‘whoever blesses israhell will be blessed’, those times are long done with however

I don’t think this is really the case anymore, then again evangelicals did vote in Trump…
an unprovoked attack that kills mostly civilians will generally get a negative reaction from most people…

[Andrewgen_Receptors]

@cyclonengineer

I agree that either way other countries should stay the F out of this local conflict.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/20/us/politics/biden-aid-israel-ukraine-taiwan-border.html

If Congress approves Mr. Biden’s combined approach, Ukraine would receive $61.4 billion for military and economic assistance, while Israel would get about $14.3 billion to bolster its air and missile defenses, including the Iron Dome system, which has protected the country from incoming Hamas rockets.

The request also includes more than $9 billion for humanitarian assistance in Israel, Gaza and Ukraine and $7.4 billion for security to support Taiwan and other allies in the Indo-Pacific. It also includes almost $14 billion to fortify border security operations in the United States — a nod to Republican demands that domestic security be considered alongside global conflicts.

If I wanted to draft an “aid package” that would almost certainly start a world war, it would look a lot like this.

[Bauber]

@lamehack

both sides hate each other

And this will never change. It is over whose sky daddy is the best.

@lamehack

big pro-israhell movement in the USA, mostly due to some nonsensical ‘chosen people’ beliefs by many evangelicals, ‘whoever blesses israhell will be blessed’, those times are long done with however

I agree many are pro Israel, but I don’t know anyone personally that states the religious chosen garbage.

@lamehack

the USA with the failing dollar and rainbow flag tainted military has little chance of going against iran/russia/china

I also disagree. Russia is practically a failed state that can’t even beat the Ukraine while their leader is on death’s door. China is not in a much better position. No wars are going to be fought conventionally.

Iran is a joke.

@lamehack

average bread eaters like me and you will of course suffer the consequences

Agreed.

@lamehack

i personally won’t move a fucking finger for anyone in this war and most likely bunker down in my countryside bug out residence when the financial system collapses

Same. My compound will be full of like-minded folks until we get nuked or something.

[cyclonengineer]

I am not at all surprised.
Disappointed as usual, but not surprised. I can almost see support Israel more than Ukraine for the simple fact that Iran hates them too and they are good ally to have against that.
Russia has shown the are having difficulty in armed conflict.

@Bauber

My compound will be full of like-minded folks

I will remind you that I am a good shot and in need of a friend with an abandoned missile silo…

[squating_bear]

@Silyak

@squating_bear

I have not said that Israel is responsible for making Gaza livable, Israel is responsible to the degree to which it makes Gaza less livable

And if I eat a sandwich, I have reduced the world’s food supply and am in some small way responsible for starving children in Africa.

Maybe, not necessarily. That’s not true of every sandwich you’ve ever eaten. It might be true of every bit of food you’ve ever trashed - except, sometimes someone else bought the food - but yeah if human resources were wasted in growing, gathering, transporting, supplying any amount of food all the way to me and it winds up in the trash I hate it as it is a clear representations of human efforts that literally wind up in the trash - its wasted - that’s seconds, minutes, planning, procedures, wasted

@Silyak

But why do you think Israel is in particular responsible for the situation in Gaza?

The first video that I posted in my second post in the thread should make that very clear, if you are interested.

I will remind you however that I never said exclusively responsible. And I will point out that you asked why particularly responsible - you didn’t ask why exclusively. So you might not want to waste your time watching what you should have already watched before stepping to me confrontationally in the first place - imo - which is obviously different from yours

@Silyak

But only Israeli women and children are being raped and tortured.

I was under the impression that was a global phenomenon

@Silyak

You also haven’t responded to the article I posted about Hamas repurposing foreign aid to make weapons

True. You didn’t ask me anything about it either.

@Silyak

How can you help people if everything they give them will be used as a weapon?

Man look - are you willing to try and make this all worth it, or not?
Am I just wasting my time and energy?

You are demanding that I defend an argument that I have already explicitly distanced myself from - while I was responding to you specifically. I do not have to crawl or stoop that low. I am taller than that.

You’ve not been discussing with me, you have been discussing with who you image I must be, should be, or something

I have asked you to recalibrate and reconsider and it very much seems that you have not

[Njord]

@Silyak

And if I eat a sandwich, I have reduced the world’s food supply and am in some small way responsible for starving children in Africa.

Isn’t this a bit of a non sequitur though?

Pulling a trigger intentionally to kill citizens at a concert is not congruent with eating a sandwhich while other nations struggle with food supply and distribution, right?

[squating_bear]

@RT_Nomad

When Germany was invaded to destroy the Nazi rule in Germany, no one was crying over the collateral death of German citizens that resulted from crushing the Nazi regime. The value system considering this was “the greater good.”

Not crying is one thing
Cheering for is another

When you said

@RT_Nomad

The value system considering this was “the greater good.”

Did you mean that was considered to be for “the greater good” under the value system at the time?

edit: basically - did you mean it was considered worth it… for the greater good?

The first time I read it I was like - wait, wut? Killing civilians was considered as a goal?

[squating_bear]

@doogie

@squating_bear

I posted earlier a video of Palestinian Christians with an opposing testimony

The one from Al Jazeera?

Yes, did you watch it?

[RT_Nomad]

@squating_bear

Did you mean that was considered to be for “the greater good” under the value system at the time?

The first time I read it I was like - wait, wut? Killing civilians was considered as a goal?

The goal was killing the Nazi’s, but to do so, some “innocent” people would become collateral damage for “the greater good.” It is really very simple.

This was how the school system worked. “X” amount of material was determined to be taught, knowing full well that some would not or could not keep up, for “the greater good.” Some children were left behind.