Agree.
This was the first (and only!) day that I was able to catch all of the testimony…and I will assure your that if Trump was on “the other side”…the GOP would be screaming for that person’s head to be delivered on a platter. I don’t know if I’ve ever heard so many Ad Hominem attacks, while at the same time never disputing the facts brought forth.
Where this will all go?
Absolutely nowhere. The House will merely vote to impeach (which is all that it can do); and the Senate will bow to Trump.
I think it’s time for those few politicians with a conscience who are actually likeable (so maybe 5% of the total) to jump ship and start a new party - same with the moderates on both sides of the aisle. We need a political party for the 21st century.
It sounds good…but ultimately it never has, and probably never will (at least in our Lifetime) work, @cyclonengineer .
If you look at say the WHIG party (interesting reading, by the way); and what Ross Perot attempted to do; these efforts ultimately are destroyed from within.
Infighting; disagreements on the party platform (this was a huge one with Perot’s party); the list goes on and on.
I don’t know if I would go so far as to say it’s “human nature”; but not only do people have a need to belong to a Tribe…that tribe needs to be partisan with some strong set of ideals; and it must be strongly opposed. (“Us and Them”/“Yin and Yang”).
Hope that makes sense!
I think they can impeach him for whatever reason they want with little to no evidence. I do think the Senate should have a level of proof higher than more likely than not, though. You are talking about overturning a national election.
With that said, I don’t think there is anything wrong at all about wanting the Ukraine to investigate Biden. Biden admitted withholding aid to get the prosecutor investigating his son fired. The fact that the creepy old dude is running for president shouldn’t shield him from being held accountable for that.
I think there’s a lot wrong with the president asking a foreign country to investigate a private US citizen and having his personal lawyer and major campaign surrogate run point on said investiation. But, that’s not the issue here. The issue is aid funded by tax payers and appropriated by congress was withheld in exchange for the announcement of an investigation into a political rival. How would you feel if Obama conditioned aid to Isreal on an announcement into an investigation of Trump?
Biden was carrying out official US policy - he wasn’t asking for a “favor”, to use Trump’s word. He had the backing of the international community and Republican lawmakers. That’s a disingenuous comparison. I’d really like to think you’re better than that.
No need to call Trump names.
Official US foreign policy is exactly what the president declares it to be.
Tell me one other time in US history when official US foreign policy was carried out by the president’s personal attorney… a private citizen who held no official government position.
Bolton’s description was succinct and accurate. This was a drug deal.
A private citizen taking money from the Russian mob.
Perry and another source told NBC News that Parnas and Fruman were trying to make money by drumming up a deal to sell liquefied natural gas to Ukraine’s big state energy company, and to oust the management at the company with help from their friends in the Trump administration.
During that time, federal prosecutors said in last week’s indictment, the pair was also engaged in an illegal scheme to funnel money into political campaigns, including a Super PAC that supports Trump, in order to “buy potential influence” and advance their business interests.
The indictment says that that Parnas and Fruman, along with their co-conspirators, hid the scheme from the candidates and campaigns to which they donated.
But there are questions about where the money came from. Court records show Parnas left a trail of debts, including a $500,000 judgment against him involving a failed movie venture. In 2014, Parnas and his wife were evicted from a $15,000-per-month, six-bedroom house in Boca Raton, the Miami Herald reported, citing court records. Separately, his business, Fraud Guarantee, was ordered to pay more than $26,000 to its landlord.
That same business paid Giuliani $500,000 in recent years for security advice, Giuliani now says, adding that he can prove the money came from the United States.
Also, this is exactly what I’ve said in this thread before:
But there are two impeachment hearings unfolding in the nation’s capital. One, carried out by the Democrats, is designed to ascertain the truth as to whether Trump sought a “quid pro quo” deal with Ukraine to get the country to investigate Joe Biden and the 2016 presidential election in exchange for aid money. The other, being carried out simultaneously by the Republicans, is quite different. Instead of trying to learn the truth, it seeks to create not just a counternarrative but a completely separate reality.
Each round of GOP questioning is not meant to interrogate the witnesses, which today included Sondland, but instead to create moments that can be flipped into Fox News segments, shared as bite-size Facebook posts, or dropped into 4chan threads. Their alternate universe — built from baseless online conspiracy theories and reading the tea leaves of Trump’s Twitter feed — dominates Fox News and Facebook. And the Republicans’ strategy, as confusing and bizarre as it may seem to those on the outside, is working.
Oh…I’m SURE Conservatives would say “Witch Hunt!” and “There is nothing there!!!”
Right…
Did this ever become apparent as I listened to the hearings.
“Each round of GOP questioning is not meant to interrogate the witness; but instead to create moments that can be flipped into Fox News segments; shared as bite-size Facebook posts; or dropped into 4chan threads”.
“Their alternate universe — built from baseless online conspiracy theories and reading the tea leaves of Trump’s Twitter feed — dominates Fox News and Facebook. And the Republicans’ strategy; as confusing and bizarre as it may seem to those on the outside, is working”.
Again…it will all go nowhere…
The House will impeach; and the Senate will bow to Trump.
Wasn’t it because the prosecutor wasn’t investigating anyone? The investigation into the gas company (I don’t think there was an actual individual investigation into Biden’s son) was open but he wasn’t going forward with it.
As far as Biden’s son goes; Americans just love to see what they want to see. The idea of someone getting a job that they have no qualifications for is not new. In fact, Trump appointed Rick Perry, a man who comes off as having mental deficiencies, to a position he was not qualified for. He did the same with Ben Carson. He did the same with his son in law.
Hunter Biden wasn’t even employed by Burisma to run the company anyway so his qualifications in that regard are irrelevant. He was on the board of directors (which was mainly a PR position that paid well). Again, tribalists don’t know what any of that really means. Hint: he wasn’t running the company, at all. This is why Joe Biden had no issues with the prosecutor investigating Burisma. Somehow, the Trumpkins have twisted the facts into Joe Biden blocking an investigation when the truth is he was encouraging it.
I apologize for the facts.
Here’s the good news: Fox viewers are older so they will eventually lose their audience as it dies off.
Sooner, rather than later, the Senate will have a Dem majority and the bad blood that the republicans have encouraged between the two parties will come back to haunt them. It is clearly the party that thrives off of divisiveness. It can’t exist without it. At some point people will have had enough of the partisan and tribal bickering and what will they have left to fall back on?
When was the last time the Wall was in the news? It’s just like the Tea Party; it all fades away because people can’t run on bitterness forever. The Republicans will have to perpetually search for things to get people angry about.
Also, people on Fox like to portray the Democratic party as being represented by the fringe. The purple haired undergrad SJWs. Yes, that element probably has more influence than its numbers would suggest but look at the Dem candidates: the front runners are rather normal career politicians. The fringe is not the base.
When you look at the fringe element among Republicans, you see Trump’s base. And the fringe is fickle, ready to move onto the next outrage.
It was an attempt to clean up an image of a shady company by Mykola Zlochevski , it’s a PR stunt. “Look, we have a US VP’s son on the Board of Directors”.
The idea that this upstanding individual would let a dumb spoiled rich kid from the US in the know is frankly preposterous.
Unethical and sleazy? Sure. But it’s very similar as has-been athletes and over the hill celebrities getting a million a piece to come to Chechnya and party with warlord Kadyrov.
@loppar
Your continual sourcing from buzzfeed, the guardian, nbc, cnn, or some twitter account - do not make one convincing argument to those of us opposed to this democrat lynching.
In fact, your continual ‘knowledge’ of all of this above the US government and conservative media sounds a lot more like a russian troll farmer.
Yes, the leftist media is very good at Photoshop, right?
Which part of the US government? Trump-appointed US officials such as dr. Hill and Gordon Sondland who have just testified against him?
Or the unelected Deep State bureaucracy?
Conservative media is repeating the Telegaph Agency of the Soviet Union (TASS). Whatever outrageous lie Russians start peddling, it’s bound to appear a day or two later on Zerohedge, Gateway Pundit, Hannity, Beck or Fox as honest-to-God truth.
Take for example Crowdstrike. An American company founded, among others by a Russian born US citizen.
Yet, on Fox today (is this source truthful enough for you?) POTUS repeatedly claimed that it was “owned by a wealthy Ukrainian”, something a cursory check at Wikipedia would disprove.
But you cannot dispute the word of the Dear Leader, can you?
Russian trolls are pro-Trump.
Be honest, nothing could change your mind short of an admission by Trump. And even then there would be some conspiracy about how the deep state finally got to him.
One reason is that it’s very easy for Russians to “pretend” to be alt-right and push against the whole global Zionist agenda. They pretty much wrote the book on it, literally.
Lynching, ???
C’mon…, @treco !
If anybody is being “lynched”, it’s these Public Servants by Trump, The Trumpublicans and the Conservative media.
