I think what I am doing is still in the spirit of the protocol…the changes I have made are very minor (except that I am not on gear right now, that is pretty major but that will change soon).
I think the important points are that the injections are done IV and that the days are spaced apart to limit somatostatin release.
Just to add to that remark, parietal cells of the stomach also express receptors for somatostatin, which when activated inhibits acid production.
2 things to report:
I am up 4 pounds…this might just be because of my increased carb intake so I am not calling it muscle gain yet. If it is muscle gain during PCT I am impressed. very impressed. I am still gonna tinker with my carb intake a bit but I think I may have it figured out.
I was thinking just tonight about the shot schedule and I started questioning the issue of the pre-workout shot…this is likely out the window given BBB’s new info but…
Here was my thinking…the pre-workout shot might not be a good idea because you are using your biggest and most important shot (Post Workout) when somatostatin levels would be highest (from the pre-workout IM shot) so wouldn’t it be best not to do the pre-workout shot?
I remember hearing Morepain saying in his awesome goodbye post (newbies folling this thread if you haven’t read it you should because it was sticky material but didn’t really belong as a sticky…search his posts and I think it was titled something along the lines of “things I know” or “things i’ve learned”… all good stuff)…anyways, i digress, he mentioned that he had tried running GH every which way and he found that 10iu post workout EOD was the best way to go BUUUUT he was injecting subq (in which case only 50% is hitting the vascular system right away and the other 50% is hitting the lymph system and getting slowly released).
If the power of the new protocol is really in the IV aspect would his protocol be better just switched to an IV shot because (in theory) you could use less GH and get equal results or equal GH and get superior results.
I then pondering the following gameplans:
I. 5-8iu post workout IV shot EOD or 3x/w (match the shots to heavy lifting days)
II. 2iu early AM IV shot and 4-6iu IV shot EOD or 3x/w
III. carry on with the current gameplan because it’s working
You are correct. I think the fact that i have not lost one bit of muscle during this PCT is evidence that at the very least GH can be used as an effective component of PCT.
I am going to continue to run it the same way for a while and see how it goes.
I wonder how many GH users, especially in the NPC and pro ranks, are aware of a protocol like this one, and how many are still using sub Q shots…
[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
2 things to report:
I am up 4 pounds…this might just be because of my increased carb intake so I am not calling it muscle gain yet. If it is muscle gain during PCT I am impressed. very impressed. I am still gonna tinker with my carb intake a bit but I think I may have it figured out.
I was thinking just tonight about the shot schedule and I started questioning the issue of the pre-workout shot…this is likely out the window given BBB’s new info but…
Here was my thinking…the pre-workout shot might not be a good idea because you are using your biggest and most important shot (Post Workout) when somatostatin levels would be highest (from the pre-workout IM shot) so wouldn’t it be best not to do the pre-workout shot?
I remember hearing Morepain saying in his awesome goodbye post (newbies folling this thread if you haven’t read it you should because it was sticky material but didn’t really belong as a sticky…search his posts and I think it was titled something along the lines of “things I know” or “things i’ve learned”… all good stuff)…anyways, i digress, he mentioned that he had tried running GH every which way and he found that 10iu post workout EOD was the best way to go BUUUUT he was injecting subq (in which case only 50% is hitting the vascular system right away and the other 50% is hitting the lymph system and getting slowly released).
If the power of the new protocol is really in the IV aspect would his protocol be better just switched to an IV shot because (in theory) you could use less GH and get equal results or equal GH and get superior results.
I then pondering the following gameplans:
I. 5-8iu post workout IV shot EOD or 3x/w (match the shots to heavy lifting days)
II. 2iu early AM IV shot and 4-6iu IV shot EOD or 3x/w
III. carry on with the current gameplan because it’s working[/quote]
I would stick to number 3. If it is working - why change it? That is a common mistake made by newbs when they are training… they are doing well doing as they do but then they read a ‘new’ plan that promises 50lbs in 6 weeks and change what they are doing prematurely… ruining their run.
Not only that but you should stick with the plan to see what happens, log it mentally at least and make changes next time to see if you can improve the results for yourself.
JMO
As for the Somatostatin increase following the Pre-workout shot - doesn’t somatostatin inhibit the release of GH rather than render it ineffective?
BBB could make a tidy living if he charged each interested pro a hefty consulting fee 
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I wonder how many GH users, especially in the NPC and pro ranks, are aware of a protocol like this one, and how many are still using sub Q shots…[/quote]
I honestly think there are more BB’s using IV/IM GH than we give credit. Not because it isn’t a very new and innovative idea by BBB - but simply because the chance of only one person coming to that logical conclusion (and when he explained it, it was logical and made simple sense as all the best ideas do - meaning this will have made the same sense to someone else - somewhere else) AND even if he was the only person to think of it… the chances of it not having left this site are pretty much nil… IMO
Although i have heard of IM use before… I have not heard of other users doing it IV which is strange to say the least… this really shows just how forward thinking this protocol was/is - it would be great if this turned into a ‘Doggcrapp’ story for our own BBB!! 
[quote] Brook wrote:
Although i have heard of IM use before… I have not heard of other users doing it IV which is strange to say the least… [/quote]
Doc Speers using rHGH IV since 1999
"I copy here the first e-mail I received from Big Doc to me, Dated March 21, 2000
'I am a 68 year old retired Anesthesiologist. After retirement I owned and operated a bodybuilding gym for 9 years. I became a hardcore body-builder in my latter 50’s, competing in local and state competitions in 89, 90, and 91 (with the help of steroids of course, which all competitors were using at that time). I won five 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place trophies.
In 1992, I began having anginal chest pain, responsive to nitroglycerine. My coronary occlusive disease was no doubt accelerated by high calorie ketogenic dieting and use of 500 mg stack totals of roids per week to drop my bodyfat down to 4% for competition.
In 1992, I was busted by the FDA for making and selling GHB. Four years later I was sentensed to 30 months in federal prison for my “crimes against the state” (I had no victoms). I lost my gym and all my other assets. I suffered two MI’s between indictment and sentensing, and my anginal problem became progressively worse in prison. I refused heart surgery, taking my chances on surviving my sentense.
Two days after my release from incarceration, I had my first chelation infusion. After 12 infusions my coronary status had improved enough for me to join a gym and start easing my way back into bodyduilding. After my first 30 chelations I have continued having one per month for preventive maintenance. Anginal chest pain is no longer a problem for any activity I now enjoy.
Eating junk carbohydrate garbage in the joint and not working out, my bodyfat increased to about 35% (10 inches added to my waistline). I have been doing HIRT (high intensity resistance training) ALA Arther Jones and Mike Mentzer for the past 18 months, and using all the nutritional tricks I know plus creatine and a few other effective supplements. I am now back down to about 12% bodyfat (a loss of about 45 pounds of fat). I lost only 25 pounds of weight, which means I regained 20 pounds of muscle. I believe that such fat loss with simultaneous muscle gain by anyone over 60 without steroids may have never been done before.
I have also been injecting HGH (IV instead of subq for increase bioavaila- bility) for the past 12 months. I would like to warn people with coronary problems about the one potentially serious side effect of HGH use. The water retension from HGH is due to increased secretion of ADH (anti- diuretic hormone) from the posterior pituitary. This hormonal relationship is not in any medical literature. However, it must be true, because the water retension and hypertension are easily controlled by .2mg of clonidine q 12 hours (personal experience). Clonidine’s primary action is retarding ADH secretion. ACE inhibitors have no effect, which means that angiotensin and sodium retention are not part of the problem.
The above is important, because ADH is also a generalized vasocon- strictor, capable of causing coronary vasospasm and death. Older people, especially those with a history of coronary occlusive problems, should have nitro handy at all times, and if angina, hypertension or water retension is a problem while using HGH, should be put on clonidine to attenuate the problem." ’
I posted more about this man a few pages back.
And it is not taking anything away from BBB because Doc Speers is actually BBB’s granddad.
An excellent way to be compensated for the expertise you have acquired. Financial comfort is a good thing.
I have just done my first IV injection.
I found it extremely easy and much prefer it over IM.
No pain.
No bruising.
No twitching.
Faster.
Excellent.
One large issue that many users here will not yet comprehend is the likely-hood if IV injects increasing needle fixation (in some users only).
I think it is a real issue that only really makes itself apparent quite some time after discontinuing injecting yourself. IV injections definitely are more problematic than IM IME.
JMO
I’am also going to try iv-shot, but now i am using Genotropin Pfizer miniquick 1,2 mg. and i am wondering is the water in these miniquick sutable for IV-injections.
Sorry for my english i am from Holland
[quote] Brook wrote:
One large issue that many users here will not yet comprehend is the likely-hood if IV injects increasing needle fixation (in some users only).
I think it is a real issue that only really makes itself apparent quite some time after discontinuing injecting yourself. IV injections definitely are more problematic than IM IME.
JMO[/quote]
Do you mind elaborating on this? I am not sure what you mean, some users will develop the perceived need to continue injecting? If so, too late for me already Kidding, but I seriously am curious as to what you mean.
Simply put - it is being addicted to injecting. Of course ‘addicted’ is the wrong word and as such i didn’t use it… more clearly it is having an unhealthy obsession with it where it is not merely a means to an end it becomes an end in itself to a certain degree.
But of those people who are a little more comfortable with admitting addictions, and how may use IV drugs - they will often testafy to the increase in needle fixation as the drug use continued.
Steroid users are, in general, very UN-likely to be claiming addiction to their drug of choice or to injecting in itself (although i know for a fact that ‘enjoying’ injecting and finding reasons to do it more frequently than necessary could easily be classed as satisfying one’s fixation). But that is a whole different argument i do not want to get into on this site…