btw cortes - the new avitar looks pretty sick, looking forward to seeing some more pics, hope everything went well with the show
[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
Hey BBB or Cortes,
Can either of you give me some tips for injecting IV…I would like to start incorporating it into my routine for the morning and post-workout shot but have no idea what the fuck i am doing.
Do I just stick it into a visible vein or is there something more to it?
Thanks,
FG [/quote]
Hey FG. In all honestly, there’s really not much more to it than that. I use a belt as a tourniquet, though not always, buy I find it does make it easier. I usually go with the cubital vein (think that’s the right term, the one in the crook of your elbow) and occasionally with another location so long as the vein is large and pretty visible.
The biggest hangup I had in the beginning was the angle of injection. I have found that entering the vein at around 30 degrees seems to be ideal. I think my problem was that I was going at it too straight on, and end up perpendicular, rather than parallel.
It will probably just take some practice for you to get the feel of it. I’m not exaggerating when I say that there were times I had to stick myself upwards of 10 times in a single session before I finally drew blood. It was getting stupid. Eventually, however, and it did not take long, I just sort of intuitively figured out how the needle is supposed to go in, and how it feels when it has entered the lumen. I remember BBB talking about this feeling, and wondering about it, now I understand exactly what he means. I could pretty much do IV shots without aspirating at this point (though I wouldn’t…and, incidentally, you don’t actually really have to much aspirate many times because you will actually see blood come into the needle as it enters the vein with your aspirating at all).
Thanks for the comments on my new photos, too. I’ll have more up very soon!
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
MHD, did you miss the part about IV being the method that produces the most dramatic results?[/quote]
Yes i read it, maybe later on i’am going to try it, but i’am a bit scared about the iv injections, there is always a little bit airbubles in my slinpin when injection and that isn’t a problem with IM en subc injections, Is this also not a problem when inject i.v.
Do you got a link or something what can help me with i.v. injections
And i’am stil wondering if i should take insuline with my PWO-shot of GH. I rather take some highGI carbs PWO so i get my own natural insuline spike or is this a big problem because you get less insulinesensitive and you have a greater chance to becoming a diabetic.
Thanks a lot for the response
Hey Cortes, after doing all those IV injections do you have any tell-tale scarring or is it barely noticeable? I would like to try this in the next 1-2 years but that’s definitely one of my main concerns.
Trust me - to get scars from IV injections - you need to inject multiple times a day for months at a time AND also use blunt needles, not to mention having a compromised immune function having it’s role…
This is not going to be the case with any PED user… I would hope!
JJ
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
It’s only when/if you have crap quality GH and it makes to insulin resistant that regaining insulin sensitivity is crucial.
BBB[/quote]
I am quite intrigued by this statement, I must say. Reason being, I would imagine that most of the IR would come from both the increased levels of FFAs as well as increased Insulin Like Growth Factor-1 output, neither of which be in excess in the generic (or lower quality) GH. What is your reasoning, that makes you believe a lower quality growth hormone would cause IR, while a higher one would not.?
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Good questions, I can see you have a quick mind 
OK, whenever I have used the generic ‘blue top’ GH in the past (about 4 or 5 times though I didn’t complete my course as you’ll see why), after about 2-3 weeks, I would develop a severely distended abdomen, starting in the right upper quadrant (liver) and getting progressively worse.
At the same time, my limbs would get smaller and flatter and my energy levels (especially PWO when consuming a high carb drink) would plummet, with tired achy muscles.
These two signs were highly indicative of reduced insulin sensitivity causing the liver to uptake and store blood glucose, eventually spilling over into denovo lipogenesis. The muscles would be flat and tired because they were glycogen depleted, constantly, due to the inability to uptake blood glucose.
So it’s due to experience and logic that lead me to the conclusion. However the precise mechanism is unclear. Of course I suspect highly elevated IGF1, triggering the insulin receptor, leading to downregulation and resistance.
But why generic GH causes this, and (I assume) 191aa Gh does not, I cannot say with authority, sorry.
BBB[/quote]
Just for the sake of being thorough, all other things were constant (diet, dose, method of injection)? Very odd, I must say. You clearly know your own body, so I imagine you already considered all of the above, but I thought I would ask anyways. I imagine that the “generic” growth hormone was made in a underground (or “non-medical”) factory? Was it all from the same supplier? What I am thinking, is perhaps the supplier OVERDOSED his brand of GH, to make the effects equal or even superior to the brand name. I would guess that he would make a bigger profit off of his GH versus a reputable one, no?
Or, another possible idea, is your use of glucophage-mentioned earlier? I am remembering a bit of info from a pharmacogenetics class, that discussed the ability of metformin to suppress the “genetic switch” (protein segment CBP) which is in (part) control of hepatic output-very vague description not entirely accurate in the way described. What I am thinking is the metformin might be responsible for the “better” insulin sensitivity.
[quote] Brook wrote:
Trust me - to get scars from IV injections - you need to inject multiple times a day for months at a time AND also use blunt needles, not to mention having a compromised immune function having it’s role…
This is not going to be the case with any PED user… I would hope!
JJ[/quote]
ok, thanks
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Brook wrote:
Trust me - to get scars from IV injections - you need to inject multiple times a day for months at a time AND also use blunt needles, not to mention having a compromised immune function having it’s role…
This is not going to be the case with any PED user… I would hope!
JJ
ok, thanks[/quote]
Yeah, seriously, no big deal. I don’t show any real evidence of intravenous drug use (oooh, scary!) even if I use the same vein four or five times in a day (not that I intentionally do, usually I will move back and forth between left and right arms, but I have had to jab multiple times in the beginning and it ended up with a lot more than four sticks a couple of times). Sometimes there’s a small red mark that looks like a zit, and since I shave my arms anyway and occasionally do get a zit or two around that exact area, even that litte mark blends right in.
Now, I will say that if you screw up and move out of the vein and end up injecting just “right” subcutaneously that you can end up with an ugly bruise and a pocket of fluid that won’t go away for at least a week. This, you don’t want, as it is pretty clear even to many laymen that it is a problem due to injection with a needle. That’s only happened to me twice though, and only once was it really obvious, and it was in my learning period when I still hadn’t figured out how to get the needle to enter the vein properly. I haven’t had an issue like this in months, nor do I expect to again.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Nice conjecture, but my use of metformin is not of sufficient import here I feel, since I have used quality GH without metformin and not had the issues.
I don’t think it is an OD issue, since I never attained numbness in the hands with the generic even @ 20iu, yet 12 iu of the ‘good stuff’ does it (12 iu in a day).
20iu of the generic did make my feet swell though, lol.
BBB[/quote]
Sorry to be a pain! : /
[quote]FuriousGeorge wrote:
Workout schedule would look like this:
M - chest/back/shoulders (GH day)
Tu - rugby practice (metformin day)
W - legs and arms (GH day)
Th - rugby practice (metformin day)
F - off (metformin day)
Sa - rugby game (GH day)
Su - off (metformin day)[/quote]
FG, is there any particular reason you are only lifting 2x/week? Consider the protocol you are running you should IMO be in the gym at least 4x a week, regardless of rugby practice. I have played rugby for many years so I know it would be difficult to hit the gym after a game, but after a practice it is very possible.
What are your goals? Do you want to BB or are you training for your sport? Are you incorporating olympic lifts into your training? I just can’t comprehend why you would run a cycle or any kind when only going to the gym 2x a week. You would get much better results if you changed your training regime!
Did no one else notice this, or you just choose to remain silent?
Ok did my first IV today without a tourniquet and wallah way too easy. It probably helps that I used to give IV’s when in the military. Took me the same time as an IM.
[quote]Game Time wrote:
FuriousGeorge wrote:
Workout schedule would look like this:
M - chest/back/shoulders (GH day)
Tu - rugby practice (metformin day)
W - legs and arms (GH day)
Th - rugby practice (metformin day)
F - off (metformin day)
Sa - rugby game (GH day)
Su - off (metformin day)
FG, is there any particular reason you are only lifting 2x/week? Consider the protocol you are running you should IMO be in the gym at least 4x a week, regardless of rugby practice. I have played rugby for many years so I know it would be difficult to hit the gym after a game, but after a practice it is very possible.
What are your goals? Do you want to BB or are you training for your sport? Are you incorporating olympic lifts into your training? I just can’t comprehend why you would run a cycle or any kind when only going to the gym 2x a week. You would get much better results if you changed your training regime!
Did no one else notice this, or you just choose to remain silent?[/quote]
See, this schedule actually makes sense to me though. In general, in-season training for sports is very minimal because of demands on the system from long practices and heavy contact games. Training sessions can sometimes be only 1-2 times a week, and never more than 3. This is one reason why players get progressively weaker as the season goes on, and the other reason is that they are getting pummeled by large men at least 1x a week, more if there are full contact practices. This is particularly true in football, and rugby is extremely similar with regard to hard contact, sans pads. This the reason the off-season is so important for athletes–they cannot continue to make progress while in season because system demands are too high, and they are prioritizing sports performance.
You want a day of rest before your game so you can be ready to go and fresh, no soreness…so Friday is out as a training day automatically. You probably want Sunday off to recover from being cleated, tackled, stepped on, scrummed, and pummeled. So Sunday is out. Rugby team practices are generally long and brutal, with a shit-ton of running. I cannot imagine wanting to train after a 2-3 hours of running and tackling. I have had friends who have played rugby before, and I cannot imagine them training after the practices I watched, although I imagine intensity varies with coaches…
The only way I could see him getting an extra–and productive–session in would be to do another upper body about 6-8 hours before rugby practice on Thursday. Other than that, the schedule looks about right considering I’m sure he has unlisted cardio in there as well probably.
My .02.
I didn’t notice the training regime - FG is of course not a BB, and while he does plays rugby - i never got the impression it is of any significant level of competition, purely for the love i gathered.
I also didn’t think he had/has any aspirations of being particularly muscular or any other aesthetic based goal other than to have and keep the David Beckham type body (which i consider to be too slim, but the girls love it ;P) - and he does.
I would also expect that from that regime posted - it is not only based around focusing on his rugby training rather than weight lifting - but also to achieve a peak fitness level. It is a pure H+F training plan in my experience, and his body represents those sort of goals rather than maximum muscularity or other iron based sporting goals.
We often forget that there are users of AAS who don’t want to be as big, as strong or as powerful as possible - i personally WOULD have expected one or all of these assets to be beneficial in rugby, but i don’t think that rugby is the only driving force behind the training plan/AAS use.
I personally agree with you - i don’t consider PED to be totally necessary for a goal that doesn’t demand the absolute pinnacle of the discipline in question - but i may be well mistaken on his goals, as they are simply assumed from previous posts and his pictures, etc.
That said, i think that he knows just enough to be able to construct a cycle safely for his own reasons - and is old enough and ugly enough to do so if he so desires! He is harming no-one and it is his choice - as it is mine or yours… whatever our goal.
Just wanted to get that in before it turns into a who should or shouldn’t use thread!
[quote] Brook wrote:
I also didn’t think he had/has any aspirations of being particularly muscular or any other aesthetic based goal other than to have and keep the David Beckham type body (which i consider to be too slim, but the girls love it ;P) - and he does.
[/quote]
Compared to David Beckham? Thems fightin’ words there brook.
[quote]BUSHMASTER wrote:
Ok did my first IV today without a tourniquet and wallah way too easy. It probably helps that I used to give IV’s when in the military. Took me the same time as an IM.[/quote]
Great to know we will have feedback from another practitioner of IV method. Keep us posted Bushmaster. (and yes, I think the military experience was a big help)
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
BUSHMASTER wrote:
Ok did my first IV today without a tourniquet and wallah way too easy. It probably helps that I used to give IV’s when in the military. Took me the same time as an IM.
Great to know we will have feedback from another practitioner of IV method. Keep us posted Bushmaster. (and yes, I think the military experience was a big help)[/quote]
I am not doing the exact protocol though as I am doing this for cutting purposes for a competition. I am doing 2iu’s in am and 2iu’s preworkout all iv. No injects on non workout days.