The Garden of Eden

Legionary · September 5, 2012, 10:36pm

A Deistic Satirical Take on The Garden of Eden

ACT ONE

God created the world and two people named Adam and Eve, with whom he intended to populate the world.
One day, while God was not looking, the Devil came and captured Adam and Eve.
Adam and Eve were imprisoned in the Devil’s garden called “Eden.” God spoke to his eternal foe and asked for the return of his people. But the Devil, being fond of his new pets, refused.
God resolved to liberate Adam and Eve. Taking the shape of a serpent, God sneaked into the Devil’s garden.
Sensing that Eve was the more insightful of the pair, God approached her.
God said to Eve, “If you will listen to me, I know a way for you to escape your imprisonment.”
Eve said, “But Mr. Serpent, I do not wish to escape Eden. I like it here. This garden has everything I need.”
God said, “You do not know what you are missing. Outside of this garden is an entire world, much larger than a mere garden. This world was created for your use. You will be much more satisfied there.”
Eve said, “Really? I need to discuss this with Adam.”
God said, “No, don’t do that! Listen to me. In the far part of the garden there is a tree, called the Tree of Knowledge. Eat from this tree, and trick Adam into doing the same. Then you will know of the world at large, and your true mission in life.”
And so Eve did as God asked. She and Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge. They knew at once of the world outside and they were astonished to know how large and beautiful it was.
The Devil, sensing a disturbance, came into his garden to check on things. He was surprised to find that Adam and Eve had put on clothing and were building a boat out of fallen trees. He knew at once that they discovered the Tree of Knowledge.
The Devil was very cross. He spoke to Adam and Eve. “You think you are smart now! The world outside is not as grand as you think it is. In here - you are safe and taken care of. Out there - you must work and suffer.”
Adam spoke. “We know of the world at large and our true potential. What you say may be true, but we do not want to live in a state of perpetual dependence. We are going to leave this garden and take our chances in the world.”
Adam and Eve climbed into their boat and floated down river, exiting Eden.
The Devil began looking about his garden. By and by, he found a serpent that was not his own. The Devil spoke, “I see you now, God. I wish to confront you.”
God resumed his natural shape. God and the Devil stood facing each other. God spoke. “Those people were my creation, and I intended to populate the world with them. You stole them from me and now I have stolen them back.”
The Devil spoke. “You are clever God, but I am more clever still. Adam and Eve will populate the world, but once they have done this, I will find a way to turn their descendants into my servants.”
God spoke. “You shall not succeed. I will place a part of myself inside of each new born child. This shall be called the “heart.” The people of my world will never be separated from me - and they will never serve you.”
“We shall see,” said the Devil.

ACT TWO

Adam and Eve entered into the world. There they worked and suffered just as the Devil said they would, but even so they felt satisfaction. They knew they were doing that for which they were created.
Adam and Eve parented many children and these children parented many more. By and by, the world became full of the progeny of Adam and Eve. God was pleased.
The Devil was not pleased. The success of his rival irritated him greatly. The Devil tried repeatedly to enslave the progeny of Adam and Eve but he was not successful.
Thwarting the Devil with every attempt was the heart, that part of God that existed inside of every person.
The Devil thought to himself, “It appears that the only way I can enslave these people is if I somehow convince them to stop following their own hearts. I must be crafty.”
The Devil hatched a crooked plan. He took the form of a spirit and spoke to an impressionable man named Abraham.
“Listen to me, Abraham, for I am the Lord God,” said the Devil. “All of humanity is born separate from me. But I have chosen your people to be my special people. I will teach you how to reunite yourselves with me.” Abraham felt a rush of pride at having been chosen and he agreed to do the Devil’s bidding.
For the following months and years the Devil instructed Abraham and his people. He taught them elaborate and absurd rituals. This the Devil knew, would keep their minds focused on external things and thus keep them from looking inside - where the heart dwelt.
The people of Abraham performed their rituals with great diligence. They believed that by performing rituals, they were uniting themselves with God. When in fact, they were separating themselves from God.
The Devil was pleased with his success. He searched the world and found other men like Abraham. Soon the world was rife with ritualism, and divided into hostile tribes.

ACT THREE

God saw what the Devil was doing but he did not fret. For the heart, placed inside each person is not just the connection between God and humanity. The heart is also the source of inspiration and therefore creativity.
God knew that tribes who became ritualistic would also loose their ability to invent new things. These tribes would fall behind, and be conquered by other, more advanced tribes.
And so it came to pass that the Devil’s primary weapon was ritualism and God’s primary weapon was secularism. Some centuries, the Devil enjoyed the upper hand and some centuries God did.
The battle never did end. It goes on today much as it did in Abraham’s time. The battle never will end either. It will go on and on, Ad Infinitum.

Jewbacca · September 5, 2012, 10:53pm

Judaism is not dualistic.

The “Devil” as foe of G-d (and vice-versa, as in this, fairly standard, reversal) is a Christian heresy.

Tiribulus · September 5, 2012, 11:00pm

I know what you mean, but Christianity is not dualistic in the usual usage of that word. God created the devil. They are not ying and yang, equally eternal and ontologically similar opposing forces.

Legionary · September 5, 2012, 11:11pm

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know what you mean, but Christianity is not dualistic in the usual usage of that word. God created the devil. They are not ying and yang, equally eternal and ontologically similar opposing forces. [/quote]

They were when the concept of both a benevolent and evil god first entered theological thought. The relationship of Yahweh and Lucifer are merely a later variant of this.

Legionary · September 5, 2012, 11:16pm

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Judaism is not dualistic.

The “Devil” as foe of G-d (and vice-versa, as in this, fairly standard, reversal) is a Christian heresy.[/quote]

So you are saying Christianity’s take on this relationship is a perversion of Judaic doctrine? I would be very interested in hearing your perspective on this.

Jewbacca · September 5, 2012, 11:37pm

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Judaism is not dualistic.

The “Devil” as foe of G-d (and vice-versa, as in this, fairly standard, reversal) is a Christian heresy.[/quote]

So you are saying Christianity’s take on this relationship is a perversion of Judaic doctrine? I would be very interested in hearing your perspective on this. [/quote]

Yes. It’s in the “Ask Moshe” thread, which I need to update.

or go here:

http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/582899/jewish/The-Jewish-View-on-the-Devil.htm

Tiribulus · September 6, 2012, 2:10am

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know what you mean, but Christianity is not dualistic in the usual usage of that word. God created the devil. They are not ying and yang, equally eternal and ontologically similar opposing forces. [/quote]

They were when the concept of both a benevolent and evil god first entered theological thought. The relationship of Yahweh and Lucifer are merely a later variant of this. [/quote]Thanks

KingKai25 · September 6, 2012, 6:40pm

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know what you mean, but Christianity is not dualistic in the usual usage of that word. God created the devil. They are not ying and yang, equally eternal and ontologically similar opposing forces. [/quote]

They were when the concept of both a benevolent and evil god first entered theological thought. The relationship of Yahweh and Lucifer are merely a later variant of this. [/quote]

When was this, please? When was it that “a benevolent and evil god first entered theological thought?” Are you talking about Zoroastrianism, perhaps? Because in that system itself you don’t have two gods - you have one ultimate God and two warring spirits, both of whom were ultimately created by/ derived from God. Later forms of Zoroastrianism became more dualistic, but it was not originally so.

In any case, this is an irrelevant statement anyway because there is no evidence from the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible (1) that “the devil” was even conceived of as a distinct entity (the Hebrew ha satan was used in the Hebrew Bible to refer both to humans and to accusatory angels), (2) that ha satan was equated with the serpent (that is a Christian idea, not Jewish), and (3) God and the devil are at war.

Cute story though, just lacking any familiarity with ancient Near Eastern thought or the history of Jewish and Christian religions.

harrypotter · September 6, 2012, 8:50pm

So you’re saying we should nuke the areas that Islam currently inhabits and send troops into those areas deemed too risky to nuke for fear of killing others?

Well, we have already started with some parts so why not finish it?

Oh yeah, we already did/have/continue to do so since the Crusades.

Legionary · September 6, 2012, 9:11pm

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know what you mean, but Christianity is not dualistic in the usual usage of that word. God created the devil. They are not ying and yang, equally eternal and ontologically similar opposing forces. [/quote]

They were when the concept of both a benevolent and evil god first entered theological thought. The relationship of Yahweh and Lucifer are merely a later variant of this. [/quote]

When was this, please? When was it that “a benevolent and evil god first entered theological thought?” Are you talking about Zoroastrianism, perhaps? Because in that system itself you don’t have two gods - you have one ultimate God and two warring spirits, both of whom were ultimately created by/ derived from God. Later forms of Zoroastrianism became more dualistic, but it was not originally so.

In any case, this is an irrelevant statement anyway because there is no evidence from the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible (1) that “the devil” was even conceived of as a distinct entity (the Hebrew ha satan was used in the Hebrew Bible to refer both to humans and to accusatory angels), (2) that ha satan was equated with the serpent (that is a Christian idea, not Jewish), and (3) God and the devil are at war.

Cute story though, just lacking any familiarity with ancient Near Eastern thought or the history of Jewish and Christian religions.[/quote]

Moral dualism began as a theological belief, which was first seen implicitly in Egyptian religious beliefs by the contrast of the Gods Set (disorder, death) and Osiris (order, life. Are you denying religious syncretism’s effect on the Abrahamic faiths? The history is pretty self evident once one is freed from the chains of presumption.

Legionary · September 6, 2012, 9:12pm

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
So you’re saying we should nuke the areas that Islam currently inhabits and send troops into those areas deemed too risky to nuke for fear of killing others?

Well, we have already started with some parts so why not finish it?

Oh yeah, we already did/have/continue to do so since the Crusades.[/quote]

Who are you addressing? When did Islam enter the discussion?

KingKai25 · September 6, 2012, 10:34pm

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know what you mean, but Christianity is not dualistic in the usual usage of that word. God created the devil. They are not ying and yang, equally eternal and ontologically similar opposing forces. [/quote]

They were when the concept of both a benevolent and evil god first entered theological thought. The relationship of Yahweh and Lucifer are merely a later variant of this. [/quote]

When was this, please? When was it that “a benevolent and evil god first entered theological thought?” Are you talking about Zoroastrianism, perhaps? Because in that system itself you don’t have two gods - you have one ultimate God and two warring spirits, both of whom were ultimately created by/ derived from God. Later forms of Zoroastrianism became more dualistic, but it was not originally so.

In any case, this is an irrelevant statement anyway because there is no evidence from the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible (1) that “the devil” was even conceived of as a distinct entity (the Hebrew ha satan was used in the Hebrew Bible to refer both to humans and to accusatory angels), (2) that ha satan was equated with the serpent (that is a Christian idea, not Jewish), and (3) God and the devil are at war.

Cute story though, just lacking any familiarity with ancient Near Eastern thought or the history of Jewish and Christian religions.[/quote]

Moral dualism began as a theological belief, which was first seen implicitly in Egyptian religious beliefs by the contrast of the Gods Set (disorder, death) and Osiris (order, life. Are you denying religious syncretism’s effect on the Abrahamic faiths? The history is pretty self evident once one is freed from the chains of presumption.[/quote]

I am honestly appalled by the sheer number of people that use wikipedia as a viable source. People get on here all the time pretending to be experts in subjects about which they know nothing, and almost invariably, they use wikipedia as their source. It’s become so prevalent that I now check wikipedia every time someone comes in spouting some sort of religious revisionism. You stole that entire statement - “Moral dualism began as a theological belief, which was first seen implicitly in Egyptian religious beliefs by the contrast of the Gods Set (disorder, death) and Osiris (order, life)” - right off the wikipedia page. In the future, if you are going to claim that something is self-evident in a field about which YOU actually know nothing, find a better source than the internet.

If you’re going to make claims about ancient Egyptian religious beliefs, you need to look into scholarly works like Jan Assmann’s The Search for God in Ancient Egypt . I assure you, the issues are MUCH more complicated than wikipedia suggests. The reality is that, except for a brief spasm of monotheism, Egyptian religion was characteristically polytheistic, meaning that they believed in the existence of multiple gods. Dualism proper entails the existence of two equal divine beings locked in tension with one another.

Furthermore, dualistic structures can be found in COUNTLESS religions across the globe. Does that mean that they were all dependent upon the struggle between Set and Osiris in Egyptian mythology? Nonsense. Binaries are simply a category employed universally in human thought; their existence in multiple religious and philosophical systems indicates nothing about their source.

Most importantly, you are still failing (and will fail) to demonstrate the necessary historical, causal connection between ancient Israelite monotheism (which possessed NO conception of a Satanic antagonist to Yahweh until the Persian period, and which NEVER portrayed Satan as Yahweh’s equal) and the relation between Set and Osiris.

KingKai25 · September 6, 2012, 10:41pm

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Judaism is not dualistic.

The “Devil” as foe of G-d (and vice-versa, as in this, fairly standard, reversal) is a Christian heresy.[/quote]

No, Rabbinic Judaism (i.e., post-70 A.D.) is not dualistic. However, many Jews of the Second Temple period (515 B.C. - 70 A.D.) certainly believed in the devil as God’s foe. That belief is reflected in literally dozens of different texts from that period, though different names are used at different times (Satan, Azazel, Belial, etc.). The Christians received their conception of Satan as Yahweh’s foe from the Jews of the Second Temple period (post-biblical period).

Sloth · September 7, 2012, 12:55am

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:
You stole that entire statement - “Moral dualism began as a theological belief, which was first seen implicitly in Egyptian religious beliefs by the contrast of the Gods Set (disorder, death) and Osiris (order, life)” - right off the wikipedia page.

[/quote]

Ouch.

Cortes · September 7, 2012, 2:43am

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:
You stole that entire statement - “Moral dualism began as a theological belief, which was first seen implicitly in Egyptian religious beliefs by the contrast of the Gods Set (disorder, death) and Osiris (order, life)” - right off the wikipedia page.

[/quote]

Ouch.[/quote]

Haha!

Ambugaton · September 7, 2012, 2:44am

Shit. Thought this was going to be about the Hemingway novel. Out.

pat · September 7, 2012, 3:27am

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know what you mean, but Christianity is not dualistic in the usual usage of that word. God created the devil. They are not ying and yang, equally eternal and ontologically similar opposing forces. [/quote]

They were when the concept of both a benevolent and evil god first entered theological thought. The relationship of Yahweh and Lucifer are merely a later variant of this. [/quote]

Have you actually read the bible? I mean the whole thing.
We are constantly bombarded by criticisms of the bible who don’t know shit about it.

pat · September 7, 2012, 3:29am