I really dont mean to pry, but are you alright brother? Been a while since ive been on here, but you seem…angrier.
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Technically? It was me lol
I am 
Ive stopped tolerating certain behaviors and world views. Tolerating them is allowing the problem to persist.
If this problem isn’t resolved on MY watch, it will be resolved on my daughter’s watch. I dont want her to have to do what needs to be done for this course correction.
Tren and stage prep arent helping.
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Here’s a thing. I always feel dumb when I find out they do things differently in other places, like multiple dishwashers.
I think its my turn for people from somewhere else to feel dumb. Like there should be people all over the world right now having an Ah-Ha! Moment because of my 4 dish solution. Like “Oh my gosh! Why didn’t I think of that? 4 dishes is brilliant!!!”.
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replace all your socks to be the exact same so you never have to sock match again.
Then tell people it was your idea.
You’re welcome
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I understand the opposition to differing worldviews. Especially if its perceived as a social nuisance, and I hope I dont fumble this offense ball thats now been bounced in my court, but do you not see any irony given you mentioned your daughter? Say she herself has just wiped the table off one too many times. And she’s had enough. Wouldn’t you want her to be with someone who’s decent parts emotionally intuitive as well as prioritizes her as a person?
I dont think Em (who i understand was actually addressing an article), or Lonnie are pulling teeth or playing definition games. I think theyre giving well thought out input on things that mask issues that wind up in parties signing papers. Ya know? Whether its the washed clothes, or the paychecks coming in, appreciation is one of those delicate things that reign supreme in households.
Do I think you’re opposed to that last bit? Absolutely not. Do i think you love and care for your family? Absolutely. But I do think the nuances missed you by a hair.
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Sure. And I never advocated otherwise. I said @EmilyQ repeatedly talks about cleaning up after a partner as “mothering” which is otherwise considered ‘housekeeping’ by most women who stay at home.
I pointed to the other end of the script.
If a mother cleans up after her children, and a father provides them with money, wouldnt that inherently make all working husbands with SAH wives “fathering” their wives?
I dont believe so, but its the same argument. And men dont bitch about it because its expected of us, whether she stays at home or works - we’re still required to be providers.
If we’re required to be providers, what are our wives required to be?
Both @Lonnie123 and @EmilyQ take my position of a SAHM cleaning up after a husband to mean that I kick my shit covered boots off, piss on the toilet seat, leave laundry everywhere, and expect my wife to dutifully clean up after me.
This is their default assumption. Why their opinion is so low of men as a whole is interesting (read: retarded).
So whose missing the nuances here, really?
I’m calling them out on their shit - because its shit.
I’ve been doing that for decades.
Yet another unacknowledged method of brilliant simplicity. 
.
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Im following. To note, while I didnt assume you did the aforementioned behaviors, I did assume you had a more lax/acceptable viewpoint on those behaviors. Hence the irony question, so my apologies.
For me, I drank the feminist kool-aid for quite some time, and am now on the side of the submissive spectrum I think all women possess (have gotten absolutely demolished for having that perspective, but I get it). By submissive I dont mean dependent (on a sense of self level, not financial) I mean respectful and having an ability to yield (for the sake of husbands).
To be honest, I myself dont look at it as “mothering”, “fathering”, “babying”. I think those are words meant to degrade to one degree or another, although those are words originally intended for good and much needed roles (pretty much same to the ones you mentioned), when its actually just “I dont like this repeated behavior” and “I have not admitted or taken responsibility that I am doing this repeated behavior”.
I do agree the standards can become double, and its a two way street. Absolutely agree. Not trying to put words in anyone’s mouth. I think all 3 of yall are swell despite the head butting. Forgive the oozing neutrality on my end though. I do understand where you’re coming from.
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My big pet peeve is the car. I bought you the car, I keep the car running and maintained, so keep it clean and tell me when something is wrong. I drive her car every couple weeks just to make sure she’s not ignoring something. I come from a family of mechanics so I’ve been conditioned to be very particular about my machines.
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The amount of respect I have for you just increased tremendously.
This was pretty much my point, so I’m glad you were able to say it in a (much) nicer tone.
Its okay to publicly belittle men and husbands, but if one publicly belittles women and wives - simps and feminists are losing their minds.
What kind of woman doesn’t want to give her husband a soft place to land?
What kind of man doesn’t want to give his wife a stress-free home life?
These are two sides of the same coin to me. Its just annoying when one side gets shamed for wanting a wife to keep up her end of the bargain, but adamantly supports the husband doing his part.
I guess its on par with the expectations society has put on us, though.
I still see it as retardation.
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Same.
My wife should be expecting a downgrade given how she’s treated the last luxury car I bought her 
Just keep it clean and maintained. Aint buying a Gucci bag for it to be used as open yogurt container storage.
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I will gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with you in this battle.
After living in a shared house at University (30+years ago), I have a fairly large OCD about dirty dishes being washed, dried and placed back in their proper place after use. My wife and 3 kids do not share the same view and it is often a point of discussion in our house. And don’t even get me started on people not putting a tool back in it’s designated spot in the garage.
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I don’t know about people having 2 dishwashers, but we do have a dishwasher that is split into 2 drawers and each one can be used separately. This means one can be cleaning while the other is still being filled. So does the job of 2 dishwashers.
This however still has its drawbacks as my kids will often chose to fill both at the same time, or even worse they will start to empty one and then fill up the spaces with new dirty things, so we end up with a mix of clan and dirty dishes together. It then becomes a lottery as to whether you get a clean plate or food poisoning.
Nope just one wife and one dishwasher. Which can substitute as 2 dishwashers with the right training i guess.
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I thought you were going to say it could substitute as 2 wives with the right training, but I dont think AI is that advanced… yet.
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Im horrible at accepting compliments, but thanks man.
On that note, (not saying anyone is doing it here in this thread), but the propaganda surrounding that societal mindset is sad.
That’s a great way to combine the two. I hate to see the husband and wife dynamic just turned on its head these days. My husband and I both always remind eachother “whatever the problem is, its US vs. The problem. Never you vs. Me”
We both come from decent working families, have had rough and traumatic pasts, been dirt poor on our own, and have also had many many faults caused by our own choices. I used to be a 50/50 gal, now im just an effort/effort gal.
Example: The kitchen stove top tends to always have grease spots on it. We cook with cast iron skillets and my husband likes higher fat foods. Have I told my husband that I like the stove top clean? Yeah. He also knows I come from a household where if a cup wasn’t put back properly I was woken up out of my sleep to put it back. Is there still grease spots? Yeah sometimes.
But likewise I know my husband just stood there and cooked food after coming from a job where he moves oil drums around all day, and gets talked to like he’s an idiot yet he keeps that entire warehouse running smoothly. To me? I can just wipe the grease off. Have i done it twice already today? Yeah, but ive also seen him come home in tears. Case rested.
Yeah I agree. And double yes to the expectations. For example I think when we first met my husband thought I expected him to like wine and dine me. And to his surprise I dont even know how to desire that. I struggle with depression more often times than not so wine and dine= running to the convenience store because ive given myself a crying spell headache and need some Tylenol.
I myself am not the ideal housewife, but I like feeling like im contributing to making home feel like home. Ive come to find my husband doesnt care too much about if I even fold the clothes before putting them away, he just wants a hug and someone to listen to him with sincerity. Shoot. Sign me up. I can do that till the day I die lol.
Id rather the vast population of the young ladies and men in my generation to have something like that. Just crappy knowing they dont.
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Well my dishwasher does make a little noise if I don’t turn it on correctly, so its not far off !!
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https://chroniclesmagazine.org/view/revolt-of-the-fatherless/
“This suggests the origins of our malaise to be in something conservatives should understand but do not: government’s systematic destruction of families. More precisely, it demonstrates further fallout from what David Blankenhorn calls in his 1995 book, Fatherless America, “the most harmful demographic trend of this generation,” and what John Turnipseed, a former gang leader who is now the director of the Center for Fathering, describes as “the biggest problem we have in the nation”: the elimination of fathers from the lives of tens of millions of children, the effects of which long ago transformed poor communities into war zones and now wreak havoc in middle-class society as well.”
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Firstly, in talking about what is driving women out of the marriage market I offered the housework disparity as a thing I hear about regularly as something that doesn’t cause divorce but builds up emotionally over time. I went on to offer a firsthand account of this sort of thing, but I also reported that I solved my issue - specifically the nasty sink and food on the counters that make me say “seriously? I just cleaned that” - by suggesting we need a cleaner rather than bitching about the sink again. My suggestion was “occasionally,” as at the moment in question, I was attempting a deep clean, which is hard to get to because my time is absorbed by cleaning up after the three of us (DOG, not child) in my time off from work. In that moment, he had come through and suggested “doing something,” which means weekend fun, and I noted that I was in the middle of cleaning the house. Rather than offering to help, he turned and went outside with the dog. It was then I decided that I needed something different - asking him to rinse the sink wasn’t working, so a cleaner was my new solution. I also stated in my post that he cheerfully agreed, and correctly pointed out that he’d suggested regularly scheduled cleaners in the past, but I hadn’t followed through (my own ambivalence). I then noted that I feel better able to rinse the motherfucking sink 100 times a day without bitterness because other things have been taken off my plate. I also noted that he is much more likely to “clean for the cleaner,” by which I mean put stuff away, than he is for me/us because he would never disrespect a service person by leaving stuff around and in her way. I say that not angrily, but as a “good guy” statement about him. Picking up can be blown off if it’s just me, whereas if there’s a person coming first thing tomorrow, it must be done the night before.
I don’t know what’s going on in your marriage, but mine is one of both liking and respect. My husband told me that he can see more definition a few days ago and also noted that I’d leaned out a bit. It lit me up with joy. I go to sleep in his arms when he’s here and he is well aware that he is my favorite thing. My kids adore him, my dog adores him, and I adore him. No offense, but despite the age difference I believe he could kick your ass. I like my husband. And he likes me.
Secondly…I’m not a stay at home wife. And you can be as angry as you want, at me or the world, but if you’re making the work she is doing for your family feel like a Sisyphusian struggle rather than a solid contribution, she’s not going to be able to feel good about it without having to do mental gymnastics. At work or at home, decent sorts endeavor to make a positive impact on the team. No one likes an asshole boss, who makes it more difficult to do the job well.
And thirdly…it would seem that sink issues are felt on both sides of the gender aisle. Does income determine the validity of wanting the sponge squeezed well or the dishes done along and along? The highest earner wins?
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