The Double-Dose Surge Project

Diet and Nutrition
21

Since I have some Surge at home, I gave this a shot during my last two training sessions. When I tried it this past Saturday, I drank half a serving during training, downed the rest during my cooldown cardio session, and had the second serving about 15-20 minutes later. No side effects, no nothing. I felt the same way I feel after one serving peri/post workout.

Last night I switched things up a bit. I slugged back half of a serving before/during my warmup and sipped the other half during training. Then on the ride home I downed the other serving. Doing this made me feel kind of groggy for about half an hour, but then I was ok. If I do this again, I’ll follow what I did on my Saturday session.

This morning I’m feeling pretty good. The lagging soreness I’ve had from last week’s higher volume training has disappeared. I doubt I’ll keep doing the double Surge this week because my training volume is low, but I may pick it back up next week.

22

I have been taking Surge post workout since the summer, but recently started double dosing this past week for the project (1/2 serving 10 mins before, 1/2 serving during and a full serving immediately post workout). One of the things I immediately noticed is that I got a mean head rush from the second dose after training. I felt pretty awful for about an hour afterwards, but after a couple of times I stopped noticing it. I attribute this mostly to recent attempts to clean up my diet. Since coming off the Velocity Diet I have been steadily working into a clean bulk, gradually increasing calories and consuming practically no artificial sugars. Almost all of my carbs outside the peri-workout window come from vegetables, nuts, and oatmeal. Taking this into consideration, 110g of sugar (2 doses of Surge) in an hour is pretty intense.

Also, like other posters have mentioned, I too have noticed an increase in recovery. I recently started doing pretty intense leg days consisting of 6 x 6 squats and deads and am usually sore for about two to three days afterwards. However, I have been following the double Surge protocol for about a week now (started the day before the original post) and although I could tell the next day that I worked legs the day before, I felt significantly better than I normally would have.

One final note, last week was the week that I finally reached maintenance level eating on low carb days (I am currently following CT’s Carb Cycling Codex). This put me at +700 kcal on high days, +350 on mid days, and maintenance on low days, with all additional calories being consumed within the peri-workout window. Here’s the cool thing - according to my weekly body comp analysis, I actually lost fat while gaining muscle (about 1.5 and .5lbs respectively). This is according to two sperate testing methods, both of which were within .3% of each other. That’s bad ass.

That’s all for now, I’ll keep you posted.

23

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
nephorm wrote:

Since I work out in the evenings, I’m not sure if I should go ahead and use Metabolic Drive complete as my post-workout meal (because of the carbs before bed), or if I should stick to protein and fat. If anyone has any advice on that, I’d be happy to hear it!

By post-workout meal, do you mean the meal AFTER post-workout Surge? Like the post-post-training meal?[/quote]

Sorry, wasn’t clear. I mean the meal after the post-workout Surge. Surge, train, Surge, wait a bit, meal.

[/quote]

24

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
nephorm wrote:
Since I work out in the evenings, I’m not sure if I should go ahead and use Metabolic Drive complete as my post-workout meal (because of the carbs before bed), or if I should stick to protein and fat.

It’s the DOUBLE Surge project, right? So if you only take Surge! pre-workout, you are not taking a double dose of Surge. In which case it was unfair of you to take 2 cans of Surge that could have gone to someone who would have followed the 2 servings of Surge recommendation.[/quote]

Don’t jump to conclusions. I will be using two full servings of Surge, one pre and one post workout, I just wasn’t calling it a “meal.” Admittedly, I could have phrased it better.

25

[quote]wogrl wrote:
hockechamp14 wrote:
nephorm wrote:
Since I work out in the evenings, I’m not sure if I should go ahead and use Metabolic Drive complete as my post-workout meal (because of the carbs before bed), or if I should stick to protein and fat. If anyone has any advice on that, I’d be happy to hear it!

If you still need to lose weight, and aren’t willing to experiment then I’d just go with 2 scoops of Low Carb Metabolic Drive. However, this is assuming you’re having carbs while training. What do you have before and during your training session?

I’ve always been told/heard/thought that it doesn’t matter what time of day you’re training…that post workout it’s important to get those carbs in… your body will absorb them right up…even if you end up going to bed right after…that’s the whole point of a recovery drink --to help you recover and the major “recovery” comes from the carbs. (there’s tons of studies out there that show this very thing.)[/quote]

hockechmp14 and wogrl: Thanks for the responses, and I apologize (again) for my incoherence. I’m just getting over a cold, so hopefully that’ll be over soon.

I think what I’ll do is have Metabolic Drive complete as my post-post workout meal, and then have Metabolic Drive with flax right before bed. That’ll give at least an hour between the Metabolic Drive Complete and the Metabolic Drive Low Carb.

26

Also, I wanted to thank Biotest for the samples of the rocky-road Metabolic Drive bar and the Spike shooter… those were nice extra surprises to find in the box!

27

A little about myself…

I’ve been working out consistently for about 4 years now. I’m 36 years old, 6’1", 206 lbs, and between 13 to 15% bf.

I’ve gained somewhere on the magnitude of 15 lbs of muscle since starting. It’s been a lot of trial and error. Definitely slow progress but progress nonetheless.

I’m currently traveling this week on business for our company’s sales kickoff which occupies our time from early morning to night so getting in lifting sessions will be challenging to say the least.

I leaned down to about 188 lbs and about 10% bf over the summer. It was the largest and leanest I’ve been. I’ve classify my lifting over the last few years as heavy, low rep work.

Since that time, I’ve switched up to a HIT style training and have made some of the best gains of my life in the last few months. This is why I figured I’d be a good test subject since I have been making good gains lately and felt like I’ve started to plateau.

Could a double dose of Surge help me add even more muscle and strength after a good run over the last few months? That’s the question I wanted to answer.

My goal is to eventually be around 225 at around 10 to 12% bf (all six abs visible). Considering my body type and how much work I’ve had to put in to gain the muscle I’ve gained thus far, this is a stretch goal for me to say the least and I’m sure it will take some years to accomplish.

Since I knew I was going to be traveling, I started the Double Dose Surge Project a week early with my own stash. I’m sure my free Surge is sitting on my doorstep as we speak.

Currently I am doing 3 workouts per week. Two upper body and one lower body workout. So what have I noticed thus far after a week?

I have to admit I was sceptical whether I would notice anything significant but I’ve been pleasantly surprised thus far.

I’ve gained 3 lbs of scale weight without any visible notice of fat gain. I’ve definitely noticed a dramatic reduction in DOMS especially after leg day. I ususally have brutal lower body days and I can feel DOMS for about 5 days afterwards. Well since Saturday, my last lower body day, I was DOMS-free after 2 days. Amazing!

I also had another PR in my squat. I’ve just performed 5 sets of 5 reps of true parallel squats with 355 lbs. This is as strong as I’ve ever been. Although my main goal is body composition, achieving new strength PRs builds my enthusiasm to keep at it hard in the gym.

Well, that’s it for now. I’ll post more as I go on here. My internet access will be intermittent over the next few days so I will try my best to answer any questions in the evening or when I get a break throughout the day.

Randman

28

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
hockechamp14 wrote:
What do you have before and during your training session?

Huh? Do you know what this thread is about? Is this a joke? [/quote]

He could have a carb meal before training, and may not have a during workout Surge. I may have just had a total brain shut down, I don’t remember what I was thinking when I asked that.

Good luck to everyone doing the experiment. I always take 2 servings of BCAA and carbs while training, and never get sore.

29

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Neph, you should try to eat real food after PWO Surge, unless you will be going to bed shortly therefater and not eating again.

If you are not going to bed Biotest recommends the following, and so do I:

“If your goal is to lose fat, one to two hours after consuming the drink, eat a meal that complies with your current dietary program.”

If you are going to bed before eating again, go with the low carb Metabolic Drive, and some healthy fat like nuts (see today’s tip).
I assume you are not on the V diet since you did not mention it.

One last thing; you guys took all the Surge! Biotest is out, and so am I.
[/quote]

Nope, I’m not on the V-diet… I’m just limiting my carb intake to breakfast and peri-workout, and reducing overall calories. So, I’m flexible in terms of what my last meal of the day could be. I’m probably just obsessing over a minor detail, though, since this would only be on weight-training nights, and not every day of the week.

30

took my first double dose today. no nausea or anything like that after taking the Surge. I know it may be early to know if it’s the Surge or not…but I’ve been extremely tired lately --from all the training and dieting and today, I’m not!
I taught spin this morning the lifted upper body—light day----meaning super setting and doing 3 exercises (shoulders, chest then back) 5 sets of anywhere between 10-20, depending on the exercise. I did 3 groups of exercises. so I consider this high volume and do it like a metabolic training type…everything back to back…no rest. It felt good and my muscles were definitely tired afterward. I rarely get sore anymore but rather tired and can’t perform as well if not fully recovered so I’m curious to see how the heavy day goes.
Oh! another thing…I got a great pump, when training— my muscles were all full and round : ) even got a few comments from some other trainers.
have another spin class later on tonight. I think my energy will be good.

31

My Surge came today! W00T!

This’ll be interesting, as this week I’m doing training I haven’t done in about 2 years…working above the 8 rep threshold. I rarely, if ever go above 6 reps, even for assistance work. This week my goal is to keep the majority of my training at 10-12 reps. This should make me sore as a dog this week. I should know if the Surge works better than usual, simply based on my generally low volume tolerance (not native, just a function of my training). I’m running on only 4 hours of sleep today, which generally skyrockets my level of soreness post workout…this should be good.

Will report back later…

32

This is day 1 for me in the Double-Dose Surge project.I will call this my "Get My Swagger Back"project(much love to Skip LaCour).

1 ser. Surge plus 1 scoop Supercharge
4o min.prior to w/o

1 Scarecrows 3 x 40 x 15,12,12
2a Bech Press 3 x 205 x 8*
2b BO rows 3 x 165 x 8 ,7,5
3a DB Incline Press 3 x 75 x 8*
3b BW Pullups 3 x 10,9,6
4a Telle flyes 3 x 35 x 15,15,15*
4b Face pulls 1 x 50 x 15
1 x 60 x 12
1 x 70 x 10

15 min.steady state cardio

1 serving Surge approximately 20 min.
after workout.

Notes:
a.Wieghed in at 167lbs at 11% bf
b.* by exercise indicates that I
completed all reps and will go
up in weight.This occurred on 3
exercises which is very unusal.
c.I did not tire at the end of w/o
as I have in the past
d.Will report tommorrow on recovery
and muscle soreness.

P.S. I received my shipment of Surge
today.I will use Spike Shooter
sample instead of Supercharge on
Thursdays workout.

33

Today was my first go-round with the Double-D protocol. Today was the last workout of my ABBH routine before moving on to a new program (deadlifts/dead bug twists/seated calf).

I have to say it was virtually effortless compared to normal days. I easily made all prescribed sets/reps.

I got hired as the asst. boys varsity soccer coach at the high school here, and we’re in conditioning right now, so I get out there and do a lot of the drills with the kids, so this will be a great test to see how well my recovery is between the weight training and the soccer.

No problem guzzling down the pre-during drink; however, I’m having trouble finishing the post-workout drink. Part of it, besides not being hungry, is the fact that I’m not a fan of anything raspberry by any means; however, I can say with certainty that for those of you who like raspberries/raspberry flavored things, you will more than likely be a fan of the new Surge flavor.

Have to echo what a previous poster said…many thanks for the free samples of Spike Shooter and the Metabolic Drive bar. Spike is no joke…I’ve never been that jacked up on any other thermogenic, and I’ve taken them all. I tend to have a stronger response on anything with yohimbe in it as my body doesn’t tolerate it all that well.

Off day tomorrow, and then Day 1 of Waterbury’s Strength Focused Mesocycle (I’m doing his year-long strength/mass phase from Muscle Revolution).

34

It’s important to remember that by pre-workout, I mean a minute or two before the first work set. At least that’s the way I do it. You don’t want to slam a pre-workout Surge, then train an hour later. You may “crash.”

I usually take the first dose with me to the gym in a stainless coffee container, do a warm-up, then drink it.

35

Yep, that’s what I’m doing, Chris. As soon as my cardio warmup/mobility/stretching is complete, I start drinking.

Feeling pretty good today, other than the fact that my free sample of Spike Shooter kept me up until freaking 1 a.m. and I have to get up for work at 5:30. I’m paying for it today!

36

Hey all,

My Surge arrived yesterday (after I had already finished my training session) along with the complimentary Spike Shooter and Rocky Road Metabolic Drive bar, T-Nation always knows how to overdeliver to its members!

I just finished a 5 day off period, which I took after finding out I was accepted into this experiment. It had been four weeks since any down time. I used this time for some active recovery and for focusing on my nutrition.

My next training cycle is a strength phase. I’ll be following Eric Cressey’s Intermediate Strength Training program (phase 1) on the newly released WorkoutPass. You can find these workouts and thousands of others here: www.workoutpass.com/instantaccess.php?recommend=134

I’ve always wanted to try one of Cressey’s programs and since I’ve been designing my own for the last 1.5 years, it will be a nice break for a while. I’m sure it will be quite effective. Tomorrow will be day two of my new strength program and day 1 of my Surge experiment. Stay tuned!

-John A. Sifferman NSCA-CPT

37 
 Stoked.  Totally stoked.  That is what I am at this moment.  I arrived home from work yesterday to find a beautiful package sitting at my house-- and beside of her sat a delivery from Biotest.  The Double Surge Project.  Two containers of Surge, a Metabolic Drive bar, a Spike Shooter, and carton full of possibility.  I love being a guinea pig; to test, to find a better way.

Thing is, I’m from North Carolina, but I should have been born in Missouri, the “show me state.” I’m a cynic. I don’t believe in hype or marketing-- I’ve been fooled too many times in my younger days. I have to see it for myself. If Chris Shugart has any concerns about his hypothesis, then he might have screwed up when he picked me, because I’m going to give you the straight story.

But to be honest, I don’t believe Chris has anything to be concerned about. Why? Well, for one, I’ve used Surge before as a single serving post workout drink and was impressed with its ability to improve: recovery, pump and body composition. Not cranium boggling, boat load of anabolics effects, mind you, but positive verifiable effects none-the-less. With that being said, let me categorize your humble test subject.

Currently, I work as Project Manager for a commercial construction company.  I endure a three hour round-trip commute each day, on top of the ten plus hours spent at work.  Add a very active five-year old, a wife with a longgg list of errands, two pot-bellied pigs, and you've got your hands full.  So trying to achieve the perfect training schedule, let alone finding the time to train can sometimes be somewhat of a struggle.

I would prefer to let my body recovery after an “intense” workout before I attempt to tackle another kick ass workout, but inevitably I have to workout when time allows, not when I choose. (Make hay while the sun is shining!) I’m also 37 years old, not a geezer (well to some I might be) but old enough to where I am starting to notice the effects of age on my training. Namely in the department of recovery.

My training for the past three months has been low reps, multiple sets, with the weights ranging in the 85% max and above range; with that being said, I’m going to be somewhat sadistic to Chris’ hypothesis and commence his Surge experiment with a German Volume Training routine. I do believe the greater the volume and intensity of work, the greater benefit one receives from Surge, and of course the greater chance of DOMS. Heh, heh, heh… sucker.

I just came off a see-food bulking cycle which has left me both bigger and stronger, but you know, these love handles that cropped up as well are really starting to bug me.  You see, Chris and others may be Former Fat Boys, but I am a Former Skinny Fat Boy-- I was skinny but with a high percentage of body fat.  So not only do I want to be cut-- I want to be big and strong as well.  What is a person to do?  Do I even dare mention it?  Can I, even with the assistance of the Double Surge, beat the conundrum of fat loss and muscle building?

I am not talking about the massive body gains of a constant overeating program; but more of a “Carbolin 19 effect”, a shift in body composition. My hypothesis is simple: go well above maintenance calories on training days based on protein and carb meals, with the majority of the carb calories to be consumed peri, during and post workout.

Non-training day meals will be comprised mainly of protein and fats with my intake below maintenance level. However, my overall intake for the entire week shall be above maintenance amounts. Enter the Double Dosed Surge, which fits into this scenario as if it were born there. Will it work? Stay tuned and see.

Our indicators shall be my current stats and probably some before and after pics.

Current stats: 205 lbs. approximately 14% bf.

Lifts: Squat 345 ATG, Deadlift 405, Bench 270, Bent Row 255.

Now I am sitting at work; in the distance I can see them swinging a seven ton steel column through the air, but that is not the iron I am dreaming of...

Stoked. Totally stoked.

38

love your post lizard king… you must have been a writer in another life… very captivating

39

Why thank you ma’am.

40

wogrl, how about some pics? You know, for science and stuff. :slight_smile: