The Death of Society?

Disgusting… top to bottom. The mayor should not be saying shit like this… talk about giving up.

After another stabbing, London Mayor Boris Johnson warns: DON’T get involved if you see trouble

By Charlotte Gill and Paul Sims
Last updated at 11:57 AM on 03rd July 2008

The risk from violent crime is now so high that people should walk away if they see someone else in trouble - in case they end up losing their own life.

That was the depressing warning yesterday from the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson.

He said he would tell his own children to ‘look after themselves first’ rather than help a victim in distress.

The comments follow the knife murder of 16-year-old Ben Kinsella after he tried to break up an argument outside a North London bar at the weekend.

In another example of violent, broken Britain, a former soldier died yesterday after being attacked on a bus by thugs he had asked to stop swearing.

Father-of-three Stan Dixon, 60, politely asked them to stop using bad language in front of his partner.

To avoid trouble, the couple decided to get off early.

But as the bus doors opened, two men pushed Mr Dixon violently to the ground, leaving him with massive head injuries.

Mr Johnson’s warning is a dramatic change from his stance last year - when he told citizens to ‘take a risk’ and tackle thugs, saying the chances of being stabbed were ‘microscopic’.

Since then, there has been been a horrifying death toll of innocent people simply trying to stop violence.

One high-profile victim was Harry Potter actor Robert Knox, 18, stabbed to death outside a bar in Sidcup, South London, in May as he tried to protect his younger brother.

Mr Johnson, who lives a few streets from where16-year-old Ben Kinsella was attacked, revealed what one ‘very nice ex-jailbird’ had told him - ‘If you see a fight in the street, don’t risk it because someone might have a knife.’

The mayor added: 'I’m afraid that may sound like a lack of public spirit if someone is being badly attacked. But if I was giving advice to my kids and there was a bar brawl in Islington, it would be to look after themselves.

‘Everybody is shocked by the level of violence we are seeing, particularly towards young people, and we must all work as hard as we can to reverse this dreadful trend.’

The mayor spoke as Scotland Yard chief Sir Ian Blair revealed that more than 1,200 people had been arrested and 528 knives seized in a major operation launched six weeks ago.

Nearly 27,000 youngsters had been stopped and searched.

Sir Ian said 95 per cent of those arrested are now being charged, up from 80 per cent when the operation started.

He warned young people: ‘My message is “don’t carry a knife” because if you do, you’re probably going to end up in prison.’

Mr Johnson urged parents, relatives and friends to ‘shop’ youths who carry knives to the police.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith claimed yesterday that knife crime was no worse than before, despite the spate of shocking youth murders.

Speaking on GMTV, she said: ‘Knife crime, although we are very worried about it, is no more serious than it has been previously.’

But hospitals yesterday reported a massive upsurge in child stab victims admitted to accident and emergency, particularly among the under-16 age group.

The figures were revealed by the Daily Mail on Saturday but released officially yesterday.

In the youngest age group, the number of children seeking treatment for stab wounds rose by 88 per cent, from 95 in 2002-3 to 179 in 2006-7, the latest year for which figures are available.

Among 16 to 18-year-olds, there was been a 75 per cent growth, from 429 to 752.

The number of adults attending hospital with stab wounds rose by 27 per cent over the same period, from 3,745 to 4,786.

LibDem spokesman Chris Huhne said of the hospital figures: 'These appalling figures show that the Government’s strategy for tackling teenage knife crime is failing abjectly.

'Ministers claim crime is falling, but these figures show serious attacks that require hospital admission are up.

‘They cut through all the problems with the crime reported to the police and the lack of information about teenagers in the British Crime Survey.’

Last month, a Government adviser warned that Britain was becoming a ‘walk on by’ society.

In a report ordered by Downing Street, Louise Casey said people were terrified they would either be attacked themselves or face arrest.

She said the change in attitudes - blamed on a loss of trust in the police - could let crime ‘strangle whole neighbourhoods’.

There is some merit in the “Dont try and be a hero” thing (you are a gas store clerk/customer and an armed robber comes in…just let the money go)

But if someone ran by and stole someones purse or something and I was in range to tackle the guy I probably would.

That’s sad, and pathetic. Britain is a Liberal Nanny state, and the fundamental flaw I’ve always seen in liberalism is the belief that people are inherently good.

They’re not.

Civilization depends on people’s willingness to do whatever it takes to defend it, including violence. I hope the pedulum swings back in the other direction soon.

I gave up on humanity a long time ago. I dont really see how it’s possible not to with shit like this.

This world sucks, and sadly it’s getting worse.

What a message to send, “Let’s all give up, Fuck it.”

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
That’s sad, and pathetic. Britain is a Liberal Nanny state, and the fundamental flaw I’ve always seen in liberalism is the belief that people are inherently good.

They’re not.

Civilization depends on people’s willingness to do whatever it takes to defend it, including violence. I hope the pedulum swings back in the other direction soon.[/quote]

Humanity isn’t inherently anything, except perhaps adaptable and opportunistic. Both of those can be good and bad.

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
I gave up on humanity a long time ago. I dont really see how it’s possible not to with shit like this.[/quote]

agreed

[quote]wirewound wrote:

Humanity isn’t inherently anything, except perhaps adaptable and opportunistic. Both of those can be good and bad.[/quote]

Wow. That’s probably one of the best, most true things I’ve ever heard.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
wirewound wrote:

Humanity isn’t inherently anything, except perhaps adaptable and opportunistic. Both of those can be good and bad.

Wow. That’s probably one of the best, most true things I’ve ever heard.[/quote]

He forgot one though - stupid. Most people are idiots.

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
That’s sad, and pathetic. Britain is a Liberal Nanny state, and the fundamental flaw I’ve always seen in liberalism is the belief that people are inherently good.

They’re not.

Civilization depends on people’s willingness to do whatever it takes to defend it, including violence. I hope the pedulum swings back in the other direction soon.[/quote]

Pathetic indeed! I hope British wake up to this. Vote for the BNP into your office and get things back in order!

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
That’s sad, and pathetic. Britain is a Liberal Nanny state, and the fundamental flaw I’ve always seen in liberalism is the belief that people are inherently good.

They’re not.

Civilization depends on people’s willingness to do whatever it takes to defend it, including violence. I hope the pedulum swings back in the other direction soon.[/quote]

I dunno about your definition there. People always say I’m liberal when the only thing I’ve ever advocated is letting people do what they want, as long as they don’t harm anyone else.

Criminals will kill people with knives.

Solution: Deny the victims the right to defend themselves.

Makes sense.

[quote]mr_slick wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:
That’s sad, and pathetic. Britain is a Liberal Nanny state, and the fundamental flaw I’ve always seen in liberalism is the belief that people are inherently good.

They’re not.

Civilization depends on people’s willingness to do whatever it takes to defend it, including violence. I hope the pedulum swings back in the other direction soon.

Pathetic indeed! I hope British wake up to this. Vote for the BNP into your office and get things back in order![/quote]

Wow, hope that’s a joke.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Uncle Gabby wrote:
That’s sad, and pathetic. Britain is a Liberal Nanny state, and the fundamental flaw I’ve always seen in liberalism is the belief that people are inherently good.

They’re not.

Civilization depends on people’s willingness to do whatever it takes to defend it, including violence. I hope the pedulum swings back in the other direction soon.

I dunno about your definition there. People always say I’m liberal when the only thing I’ve ever advocated is letting people do what they want, as long as they don’t harm anyone else.[/quote]

That’s why I hate to use the L word, because that tends to de-rail the conversation around here.

The classic definition of a Liberal is someone who advocates the advancement of individual liberty. Pretty much everyone in the US and every western democracy is a liberal. But in America, Liberalism has been mixed with Socialism, and other general weirdness, like PETA. I’m not saying that all liberals are socialists, but the political discourse is often infected by the extremes, so you end up with people who are very middle of the road on the issues who view the world in terms that are very sympathetic to socialism.

EDIT: clarity

Ugh. Classical liberalism can be found in the works of Hobbes and Locke, and originally liberalism was far from pacifistic. In fact, Hobbes wished to restore the power of the monarchy in order to create a strong central government to rule with an iron fist.

So basically I can go to London, walk around a public place randomly beating the shit out of people and stabbing them…and nobody will do shit?

Hmmmm…well, obviously criminal behavior won’t be effected by this situation.

…and you voted to let the government take your guns away…why?

Oh yeah…delusional people that live in fantasy worlds often believe that taking away one kind of weapon will prevent murder. You know what I just realized?? Washington D.C is EXACTLY the same way!!

London = owned

there is a whole world of difference between some guy nicking a purse or some drunk lads looking for a fight and the kids doing the stabbings.
most of these kids have grown up without authority figures and without hope of ever improving their lives of shitty council estates. all they relate to is the violence and crime endemic in their homes and estates.
i agree with what boris said, one well-meaning person has no chance agianst an armed or unarmed gang against these feral kids.
however, lets just say hypothetically, that i was in charge of the police, i would form squads of riot police to forcibly arrest any of these gangs wandering the streets. over the top, but the problem wont be solved by social workers, or voting bnp

Did anyone already not think that if you attempt to curtail someone who is willing to commit a violent crime, some risks come with that?

Of course you might get hurt if you try to stop someone with a knife mugging another person.

I doubt this advice will stop the people who would have helped anyway, and give those who would not a great excuse as to why they didnt.