The Collective Power of T-Nation: What If?

Off Topic
81

Grey,

I agree that you’re entitled to your opinion. In fact, since Nate has posted on an internet forum he is open to all sorts of attacks.

The question is whether or not your attack is necessary at a time when he needs support. If you don’t want to give him money then you can choose to keep your wallet away.

If you’re not inclined to give financial support you could consider being supportive in some other manner. You’ve obviously got some strong thoughts on work ethic and a different perspective on life. Perhaps there might be a better way to make Nate more receptive to your way of thinking.

[quote]grey wrote:
Gee whiz. What a heavy thread.
I would hate to be in your shoes Nate.
Not because of the problems with your father (I lost mine in similar circumstances years ago) but because of your inability to deal with the situation on your own merits.
It’s your father who needs support during this difficulr period in his life and not you.

You are a healthy young man and should be able to handle any financial problems on your own.
For God’s sake man…your father is dying and you are crying about financial difficulties. Pathetic.
I don’t care how much flack I get from the rest of the T-Nation members. You are everything that is wrong with America these days. I abhore your pathetic attempt for charity.

You are young.
You are healthy.
You have a job.
You have a roof over your head.
You have a woman who loves you.
You have a future.

It’s people like you who lead me to believe that the world is definately coming to an end.
How dare you ask for charity?
Have you no honour?

I call them as I see them.

You are wrong.

get with it boy. Don’t be a fucking sap.

We all have our problems and most of them are probably worse than yours.

What if? What if you decided to become a man?
Over and out.

Oh and Stacey…do you really want to be with a guy who solves his problems by begging for money?
It makes me sick.
Sorry for the truth.
[/quote]

82

[quote]grey wrote:
It’s your father who needs support during this difficulr period in his life and not you.[/quote]

And I am helping to support him in many ways. At the same time, I know that I must also do what needs to be done for myself and my own sanity.

You don’t think it makes me feel selfish at times? That I want to help myself and my financial difficulties and my life, yet also be there for my father?

Come on man, get real. It’s not all about me. I’m sorry if I have said or done something that makes it seem that way. But I know that I must also take care of myself during this time.

[quote]You are a healthy young man and should be able to handle any financial problems on your own.

For God’s sake man…your father is dying and you are crying about financial difficulties. Pathetic.[/quote]

I am handling my financial problems on my own. I have been. I have done an incredible job of it as well (I think). I’m so close to being where I want. I’ve had many, many setbacks along the way, but I’m getting close.

At what point did I say mine are worse than others? I have not, and I have stated many times over that there are others who are far worse off.

I consider myself a man. A very good man. A man who has worked hard to eliminate debts, to overcome adversity, to support my father in many ways during this time. To help others and to become a better person.

The funny thing is that I never begged for money not once in this thread or any other thread or in my personal life. I have not asked for help from anyone, even those that said that would be more than willing to help in other ways.

I merely had an idea that could potentially help, not just myself, but many others through a “pay it forward” mentality. But I suppose by your ideas, we should not even think of helping someone when they are down and out for whatever reason because there is always someone worse off.

Thank you grey. I am grateful for your supportive words and encouragement through this time of my father’s last few days on this earth and the struggles I’ve faced through it all. I hope someone is there for you when you need it most, whether they help you financially, emotionally, physically or in some other way.

God bless.

83

Nate, pay no attention to Grey and don’t bother responding to him. Everyone has their own struggle and it’s not for anyone else to judge how the struggle affects someone.

Keep your chin up. You have more support than you will ever realize.

84

Hey guy, things are pretty tight for me right now too. I quit my job to start selling real estate 2 monthes ago and things are really tight. So much so that I’ve considered getting a second job. Anyways, basically I can’t make my minimums on my payments at the time, so I don’t have any money to give. But I do have some advice. Go buy Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. I think its like $15 off his website. It is a very good book. I think you would benefit from it A LOT. I don’t think running out and getting an apartment is a good idea for a while, you need to get debt free and get an emergency fund saved up before you go spending money on a deposit and rent.

Just some advice,
Denny

85

Nate.
I am being supportive. This is my way of doing it. Get yourself off of your computer and find your way through your troubles.
Does having people give you a pat on the head make things any better?
Does the 500 or even 1000 dollars that you received from friends really make a difference? What are you going to spend them on?
I want everybody else to understand that encouraging Nate in this type of behaviour is demeening and counterproductive at this time of his life.
Do your words of solace change anything? No. You are internet persona and although you mean well you are at the end of the day pixels on a computer screen.
That is unfortunate but so very true.
The prof. one day turned off his computer and “POOF” he was gone. Will he return? I don’t know and probably few of you do as well, if any.
What’s my point? The internet should be the absolutely last place to look for support. Get back into the real world and try to solve your problems by working harder or working more. real life works exactly as does bodybuilding…you have got to put in the time and effort to get results.
If a noob started a thread stating that he isn’t getting any results what would you say to him…it’s ok buddy…I’ll send you some protein powder. How about this one…no problem…just go to church and pray.
No. You wouldn’t would you. You would tell him to man up and put more food on the plate and more plates on the bar.
That’s basically what I’m trying to tell Nate.
Nate.
Buck up. Be strong for your father.
Put your own troubles on the backburner for now including Stacey…she should understand what you are going through and wait.
Time has a way of putting things in perspective. You will realise this years down the road. Don’t make the mistake of creating a more painfull memory of these current times than they already are.
Another word of advice…share your happiness but keep your troubles to yourself.

Get to work and your God will bless you.

86

I have to say I agree with Grey on both posts. Wouldn’t change a word.

87

[quote]ThatGirl77 wrote:
Nate, pay no attention to Grey and don’t bother responding to him. Everyone has their own struggle and it’s not for anyone else to judge how the struggle affects someone.
[/quote]

I don’t know ThatGirl, this is a tricky issue…

Since we are on a site dealing with men, manhood, men in society, being a manly man, fighting the effeminizaton of men, and all that good stuff, feedback on how you are dealing with lifes issues, from a manly man’s perspective, is probably appropriate.

Anyway, I do think there is a difference in seeking emotional support or discussion on the Internet and seeking financial support on the Internet. I think the issue here perhaps is that Grey isn’t offering much sugar coating on his viewpoint.

At the same time, in reading this thread I do feel a bit as if my emotions are being held hostage. Of course I sympathize and feel badly and wish I could help, but that doesn’t make it right either.

Every man has his own cross to bear…

88

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
He’s worked very hard to maintain his excellent credit rating in spite of past financial difficulties (taking on his ex-girlfriends car, cell phone, rent, and insurance payments as well as all of his own while on very limited income when she defaulted on her agreements).

I was under the impression that he was already behind on payments and his credit rating was already pretty bad. If in fact his credit rating is still excellent, then a bankruptcy filing may indeed not be in his best interest.[/quote]

So, I talked to 2 doctors and 2 lawyers (not practicing, but legal experts) today and I was wondering what people thought of this solution:

Nate has his DAD file for bankruptcy. He would be able to get medicaid coverage within about 30 days which would cover 100% of hospice costs (although he would have to use a medicaid service provider). It would also cover any of his unpaid medical bills that took place after his insurance expired.

If he has any money or assets before filing for bankruptcy, he could give it to Nate, (up to $50,000 tax free as a father-son gift more in some cases) and still file for bankruptcy with none of the gift, or any of Nate’s assets being at risk in any way. Its not considered to be fraud either. Nate, you have no financial liability for any debt he accrues, nor any of the effects of your father’s filing for bankruptcy.

So I’m just wondering, this was the concurrance of my 4 experts today. Is there something obvious that I’m mising here?

89

Things must be tough for Nate for him to have to stoop this low.

It’s not the way I’d have done it, but I wish you all the best Nate and hope you pass through these tough times quickly.

You do need to change your focus though. Do a google search for “law of attraction”.

God speed.

90

Nate! Best of luck to you! I’m more or less in the same situation as yourself. The one good thing that has come out of my situation for me is that I learned a pretty good life lesson about how to manage money. Money can’t make you happy, but can sure make you unhappy.

Best wishes,
Analog_kid(Matt)

91

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
MikeTheBear wrote:
He’s worked very hard to maintain his excellent credit rating in spite of past financial difficulties (taking on his ex-girlfriends car, cell phone, rent, and insurance payments as well as all of his own while on very limited income when she defaulted on her agreements).

I was under the impression that he was already behind on payments and his credit rating was already pretty bad. If in fact his credit rating is still excellent, then a bankruptcy filing may indeed not be in his best interest.

So, I talked to 2 doctors and 2 lawyers (not practicing, but legal experts) today and I was wondering what people thought of this solution:

Nate has his DAD file for bankruptcy. He would be able to get medicaid coverage within about 30 days which would cover 100% of hospice costs (although he would have to use a medicaid service provider). It would also cover any of his unpaid medical bills that took place after his insurance expired.

If he has any money or assets before filing for bankruptcy, he could give it to Nate, (up to $50,000 tax free as a father-son gift more in some cases) and still file for bankruptcy with none of the gift, or any of Nate’s assets being at risk in any way. Its not considered to be fraud either. Nate, you have no financial liability for any debt he accrues, nor any of the effects of your father’s filing for bankruptcy.

So I’m just wondering, this was the concurrance of my 4 experts today. Is there something obvious that I’m mising here?
[/quote]

One thought, if the gift is within 90 days before the BK, could Nate be sued for the assets as an improper distribution? I am not sure the answer to this question, if this was a business, the answer would be yes, but I am not sure in an individual BK. Just something to think about and check out.

92

Words of wisdom analog.

While many people won’t believe it, it is true. You are still the same person if you have money… and if you are predisposed to find the bad, focus on problems, to make choices that make you unhappy, having money just gives you a bit more lattitude to do so.

93

On the side:
It’s what I don’t understand about some T-Nation posters that they feel they HAVE to post “the truth” about someone when all it really ends up being is a blanket truth they assign to a problem/situation of which they have an incomplete grasp or “the________” (insert whatever absolute you feel strongly about). It’s not the stating of such a thing but rather the claiming it as “the truth” with which I have an issue.

I understand the need to vent in some cases; I don’t understand the need to insult people to the core with one?s own so-called enlightenment. In most cases it is evident the motivation is not because this person cares about “the truth” but rather hearing (seeing) themselves say it. And in many instances this forfeits that person’s integrity and/or his/her insinuated passion for the truth in that the post becomes no longer about the topic but a self-absorbed/narcissistic poster (AKA: Troll).

I am in no way saying that posters to a specific thread should only be composed of the group known as “yes-men” or that the ones who have posted on this particular thread are of this type. I am saying that some of us could show a little more tact and possibly forethought. Alas, I digress Maybe I’m just too nice, or maybe I don’t care to hear myself rip up to shreds a man who is broken, mourning, and doing everything to sustain himself, his family, and more.

94

[quote]Stace22 wrote:
On the side:
It’s what I don’t understand about some T-Nation posters that they feel they HAVE to post “the truth” about someone when all it really ends up being is a blanket truth they assign to a problem/situation of which they have an incomplete grasp or “the________” (insert whatever absolute you feel strongly about). It’s not the stating of such a thing but rather the claiming it as “the truth” with which I have an issue.

I understand the need to vent in some cases; I don’t understand the need to insult people to the core with one?s own so-called enlightenment. In most cases it is evident the motivation is not because this person cares about “the truth” but rather hearing (seeing) themselves say it. And in many instances this forfeits that person’s integrity and/or his/her insinuated passion for the truth in that the post becomes no longer about the topic but a self-absorbed/narcissistic poster (AKA: Troll).

I am in no way saying that posters to a specific thread should only be composed of the group known as “yes-men” or that the ones who have posted on this particular thread are of this type. I am saying that some of us could show a little more tact and possibly forethought. Alas, I digress Maybe I’m just too nice, or maybe I don’t care to hear myself rip up to shreds a man who is broken, mourning, and doing everything to sustain himself, his family, and more.
[/quote]

I call bullshit on your whole post.

You are clearly bias in this situation, which is the equivalent to our individual “truth”(s) that have clearly been pointed out… or a better word, our perceptions…

Some of them dont agree with yours? Oh well, such is life.

Its all subjective, and its fair game. Nate started the thread.

Besides, my perception is I wouldnt want my girlfriend in here fighting my battles and calling fellow members Trolls.

There, someone had to say it.

95

[quote]violatepropriety wrote:
Stace22 wrote:
On the side:
It’s what I don’t understand about some T-Nation posters that they feel they HAVE to post “the truth” about someone when all it really ends up being is a blanket truth they assign to a problem/situation of which they have an incomplete grasp or “the________” (insert whatever absolute you feel strongly about). It’s not the stating of such a thing but rather the claiming it as “the truth” with which I have an issue.

I understand the need to vent in some cases; I don’t understand the need to insult people to the core with one?s own so-called enlightenment. In most cases it is evident the motivation is not because this person cares about “the truth” but rather hearing (seeing) themselves say it. And in many instances this forfeits that person’s integrity and/or his/her insinuated passion for the truth in that the post becomes no longer about the topic but a self-absorbed/narcissistic poster (AKA: Troll).

I am in no way saying that posters to a specific thread should only be composed of the group known as “yes-men” or that the ones who have posted on this particular thread are of this type. I am saying that some of us could show a little more tact and possibly forethought. Alas, I digress Maybe I’m just too nice, or maybe I don’t care to hear myself rip up to shreds a man who is broken, mourning, and doing everything to sustain himself, his family, and more.

I call bullshit on your whole post.

You are clearly bias in this situation, which is the equivalent to our individual “truth”(s) that have clearly been pointed out… or a better word, our perceptions…

Some of them dont agree with yours? Oh well, such is life.

Its all subjective, and its fair game. Nate started the thread.

Besides, my perception is I wouldnt want my girlfriend in here fighting my battles and calling fellow members Trolls.

There, someone had to say it.[/quote]

I couldn’t agree more. I have always liked nate and most of what he has posted, but this was a bad move. I wouldn’t dream of asking what he did if I was going to be kicked out on the street much less because I was uncomfortable and wanted to buy my girl an engagement ring.

He racked up his cc debt he shouldn’t ask others to help pay it. Being a man is taking care of your business period. You said the bad opinions or comments were narcissistic, I don’t think so. Maybe the request was a little narcissistic.

D

96

I feel for you and your dad Nate, but honestly do you work too Stace? Maybe I am ignorant and dont know the situation, but what are you doing to help with the financial situation? I have respect for both of you, and sincerely hope things start looking up for you. God bless.

97

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
I expected to get my own place months ago. Every time I think I’m close, something happens. I can’t move out until my credit card is paid off. Then I need money for a deposit and first month’s rent. On top of that, I would like to propose to Stacey, but I have no idea how I’ll even find a way to save the money necessary to buy her a ring without going back into debt. I’m also trying to help my dad financially as well. Even with my job, I won’t have much money to save once I pay off my credit card and get an apartment. And I can’t continue living at home due to the stress. Stacey and I would like to get engaged so we could move in together as it would help both of us tremendously.
[/quote]
Repeat this as if it was your favorite mantra: Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

It seems your crisis is more psychological than financial. Yeah, you’re down in the gutter monetarily, but your [b]expectations[/b] are the real issue. You say you couldn’t move out until your credit cards were paid off, but why did you accrue such a hefty balance in the first place? If you can’t prove yourself to be financially balanced, then why in the world are you even thinking about marriage!

Next up, your reasoning for wanting to leave home is “due to the stress”. It doesn’t sound like you’re being evicted or experiencing domestic abuse or similar complications. Quit being a pansy and learn to manage! Marriage may prove equally stressfully for you (if not more). What are you gonna do then, breakout the paper cup and whistle dixie for change at the bus stop? Asking donations from relative strangers rather than puckering up with the stress of home-living is the easy way out. I echo the thoughts of others in that I believe you need to: be a man!

Last but not least, if Stacey truly cares about you, she knows a ring isn’t a prerequisite to living with you. The fact you feel a need to be engaged so as to be living with her is a false sense of chivalry. It’s even more ridiculous how you feel the need to buy her a pricey ring for the purpose of engagement given that your financial situation is in cahoots. If either of you were truly humble, you’d accept rings from a Cracker Jack box before asking for donations. Just my opinion.

Peace be with you.

P.S. I’ll light a candle for each of you at church.

98

Stace, I have avoided posting on this thread until now but, I think your post was misguided. People on this forum are giving their opinions and experiences, not stating “the truth”. Many posters who are leaving such messages are also leaving messages of support for Nate along with their opinions. I for one like Nate and have enjoyed his posts over the years, but you have to expect differing points of view when you start a thread like this.

As another poster stated, Nate has a lot going for him, a woman who loves him, an education, and a future. Much of this can’t be fully appreciated when he is suffering through losing his dad, but I am sure it will in the future. I have had very hard times emotionally and financially myself, and pulling myself out of them had a profound impact on what kind of a man I am today.

I do commend you for your supportiveness during these times for Nate.

Nate, I truly wish you and your family the best. Stay strong bro.

99

[quote]supermick wrote:
Dude everyone has hard times and i dont feel this is the answer.

just my opinion.[/quote]

I agree, their is something wrong about the idea. Surely you have friends you can ask? And don’t give me this crap about we “Are friends on T-Nation” we’re not unless you’ve met half the people on here in person. Anyhow, my point is, a few thousand posts aside, you are asking for money of strangers.

100

[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
Nate Dogg wrote:
I expected to get my own place months ago. Every time I think I’m close, something happens. I can’t move out until my credit card is paid off. Then I need money for a deposit and first month’s rent. On top of that, I would like to propose to Stacey, but I have no idea how I’ll even find a way to save the money necessary to buy her a ring without going back into debt. I’m also trying to help my dad financially as well. Even with my job, I won’t have much money to save once I pay off my credit card and get an apartment. And I can’t continue living at home due to the stress. Stacey and I would like to get engaged so we could move in together as it would help both of us tremendously.

Repeat this as if it was your favorite mantra: Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

It seems your crisis is more psychological than financial. Yeah, you’re down in the gutter monetarily, but your [b]expectations[/b] are the real issue. You say you couldn’t move out until your credit cards were paid off, but why did you accrue such a hefty balance in the first place? If you can’t prove yourself to be financially balanced, then why in the world are you even thinking about marriage!

Next up, your reasoning for wanting to leave home is “due to the stress”. It doesn’t sound like you’re being evicted or experiencing domestic abuse or similar complications. Quit being a pansy and learn to manage! Marriage may prove equally stressfully for you (if not more). What are you gonna do then, breakout the paper cup and whistle dixie for change at the bus stop? Asking donations from relative strangers rather than puckering up with the stress of home-living is the easy way out. I echo the thoughts of others in that I believe you need to: be a man!

Last but not least, if Stacey truly cares about you, she knows a ring isn’t a prerequisite to living with you. The fact you feel a need to be engaged so as to be living with her is a false sense of chivalry. It’s even more ridiculous how you feel the need to buy her a pricey ring for the purpose of engagement given that your financial situation is in cahoots. If either of you were truly humble, you’d accept rings from a Cracker Jack box before asking for donations. Just my opinion.

Peace be with you.

P.S. I’ll light a candle for each of you at church.[/quote]

Good post.

We endure hard things in life. Put your head down and fight. That’s the only way.