The Christian God: How do you know he's the good guy?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
501

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Listen to the link I posted above please Pat. I listened to yours from beginning to end. If God did not elect to save some then ALL would be justly damned. You just will not squeeze this by your ears my friend. Once you actually understand sin, which is impossible without also understanding what God has revealed about Himself, the question becomes NOT why would He send anybody to hell, but WHY OH WHY would He save anybody at all. People just plainly and simply do not grasp the blinding holiness of God almighty and how unthinkably evil even a single act of sin is (a bite from a piece of fruit). Please, keep your word and listen to Dr. Voddie above.[/quote]

Since by your own admission, you were every bit as deserving of damnation as those that actually will be damned, why did god choose to predestinate and save you and not them? Why would god love you more than them?

Are you just that special?[/quote] I was and am every bit as deserving, in many cases much more. I have absolutely no idea why He elects who He does and not others. Not told. None of my business. I AM told that He is no respecter of persons. He does not consider the person of one individual over another. I only know what He tells me and I trust that His reasons, because they’re His, are all holy, wise, just, gracious, merciful and loving by HIS definitions. I assume every person I see is one of His and treat them as if Jesus is waiting, arms open for them to come to Him. I have no knowledge or right to do otherwise. He saves THE most, to us, unlikely abominable godless heathens imaginable and He saves the decent middle class “religious” grandma and anybody in between. I’ve met them.
[/quote]

In other words, you admit your own doctrine makes no sense.

Sorry, but “only god knows the answer” doesn’t work any better for you than it does for Catholics, Mormons, or Jehovah’s Witnesses.[/quote]

You should listen to the link…I mean WOW, it’s pretty bad. I don’t know how anybody could listen and say ‘Yeah, that makes sense…I am lower than dog shit, because God made man sin and now unless he chooses me I will be nothing more than dogshit. If he choses me, I am elected dog shit which means I won’t dry up and blow away in the wind. But you ARE dog shit, make no mistake.’ ← That’s a paraphrase…[/quote]

Lol. I prefer Genesis 1:

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And Psalm 8:

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

And 1 John 3:

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Calvin must have been sleeping in his bible lessons during those parts.
[/quote]

Calvin is an asshole. His theology would be a joke if it weren’t so dangerously stupid and heretical about anything and everything that is good and right about Christianity. In Calvin’s world Christ’s sacrifice is either useless or a bad joke. Why do you need a Savior if you have no option for salvation save for a divine roll of the dice. Oh wait… that just means I don’t understand the mind of God… Nor do I pretend to, I only deal with what he actually revealed, not what somebody made up out of thin fucking air about what he revealed.
Oh wait, I must not trust God…Well if he for ordained me to hell, I damn sure would not trust him, why would I? If somebody comes over, kicks my ass, kills my family, drags me to eternal torture I am not going to trust them. I don’t need the divine wisdom of God to know that sucks.

502

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Anything, but the truth. Just as He said it would be.[/quote]

So Genesis, Psalms, and 1 John are now “Anything, but the truth”?

503

Will you stop already Elder Forlife. YOU are anything, but the truth =] You don’t care about any of this except to justify your life to yourself and have something to do with your time… People can and have made the bible say literally anything. . Yeah yeah yeah, ESPECIALLY CALVIN I know.

504

two necessary and sufficient reasons to disbelieve anything Calvin wrote:

-He was a lawyer
-He was french.

505

[quote]kamui wrote:
two necessary and sufficient reasons to disbelieve anything Calvin wrote:

-He was a lawyer
-He was french.
[/quote]
NONSENSE MAN!!! The very best reason to disbelieve anything Calvin wrote is the gagging repugnance with which the heart yet dead in sin encounters the truth as it is in Christ.

506

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Will you stop already Elder Forlife. YOU are anything, but the truth =] You don’t care about any of this except to justify your life to yourself and have something to do with your time… People can and have made the bible say literally anything. . Yeah yeah yeah, ESPECIALLY CALVIN I know.[/quote]

The scriptures I posted are crystal clear. Men are not dog shit like Calvin claimed. Any true Christian understands that men are made in god’s own image, and when they see him again they will be like him.

Don’t tell me what I care about. I care about the truth, period. There may be a god, and that god may even be Jesus, but if he is, the traditional Christians have it right, and Calvin is way off base. Telling people that they are scum and will always be scum, and that no matter what they desire or choose, god will decide their fate, sounds like a bag of lies straight from Satan himself.

507

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:
two necessary and sufficient reasons to disbelieve anything Calvin wrote:

-He was a lawyer
-He was french.
[/quote]
NONSENSE MAN!!! The very best reason to disbelieve anything Calvin wrote is the gagging repugnance with which the heart yet dead in sin encounters the truth as it is in Christ.[/quote]

The best reasons to disregard Calvin is because he was either evil, woefully misguided, self serving, very high, insane or just plain stupid. In any event, his ‘theology’ harmful garbage and you would do well to distance yourself from this promenade of hysterical heresy.
Best thing you ever did was encourage me to listen to that link. I thought I was right before, now I KNOW it.
Anyway I wash my hands of that garbage. I hope you never encourage me to align with it in anyway, shape or form. It is totally devoid of goodness and I have no use for it what so ever. Know that if you condemn me, you condemn yourself.
I don’t condemn you, I believe you are doing the best you can however misguided it may be. But don’t waste my time with it anymore, please.
If you want honest theological debate I am happy to oblige, but I haven’t seen from you any arguing in good faith. You argue how you are right and everybody who doesn’t believe your gobbledygook is in the fast lane to Hell. You don’t argue points you preach to everybody…I am not lost despite what you think.
Also, don’t insult my faith anymore, you gave me more than enough ammo to return in kind and most likely I will. Mainly to demonstrate that you have no moral or spiritual superiority over me or my faith, despite what you may think.
Anyhoo, I wash my hands of it, shake the dust from my feet, scrape the turd off of my shoe, what ever analogy you want to use.

BTW, next time you think somebody needs your help for salvation make sure you check that mirror. That large beam sticking out of your eye makes it hard to see, remove it.

508

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Will you stop already Elder Forlife. YOU are anything, but the truth =] You don’t care about any of this except to justify your life to yourself and have something to do with your time… People can and have made the bible say literally anything. . Yeah yeah yeah, ESPECIALLY CALVIN I know.[/quote]

The scriptures I posted are crystal clear. Men are not dog shit like Calvin claimed. Any true Christian understands that men are made in god’s own image, and when they see him again they will be like him.

Don’t tell me what I care about. I care about the truth, period. There may be a god, and that god may even be Jesus, but if he is, the traditional Christians have it right, and Calvin is way off base. Telling people that they are scum and will always be scum, and that no matter what they desire or choose, god will decide their fate, sounds like a bag of lies straight from Satan himself.[/quote]

It’s sad that an agnostic has a better grasp on scripture than a practicing Christian… One day you really need to evaluate your calling, FL. You do have a talent when it comes to scripture…

509

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< Don’t tell me what I care about. I care about the truth, period. There may be a god, and that god may even be Jesus, but if he is, the traditional Christians have it right, and Calvin is way off base. Telling people that they are scum and will always be scum, and that no matter what they desire or choose, god will decide their fate, sounds like a bag of lies straight from Satan himself.[/quote]Calvinist ARE the traditional Christians LOL!!! Yer not gittin it. What I believe was the prevailing Christian view in the colonies. Take a peek if you dare, and see what glorious works of the doctrines of grace (TULIP) emanated from the true children of the reformation dwelling therein. LOL!!! I’m not sayin the country itself was Calvinistic, but a very large percentage of the Christians in it certainly were and they had tremendous influence. Even over that thoroughgoing Calvin hating political genius ol Tom Jefferson, who felt compelled to include the very VERY Calvinistic doctrine of PROVIDENCE in the D.O.I… Make no mistake my dear Elder Forlife, that doctrine came straight outta the Westminster Confession of Faith of 1646 wherein the God I have been here proclaiming lo these many months was most exultingly, majestically and ACCURATELY represented and honored for all to see.

Hate if you must, I’d be disappointed if you didn’t, but face the truth. Calvin wasn’t alone either ya know. Luther was first and there was also Farel, Beza, Bullinger and oh yes, my dear brother John Knox among others. Unstoppable warriors in the army of the most high God sent from heaven to free men from that abomination in Rome. Calvin was the most capable and prolific, but definitely not alone.

510

[quote]pat wrote:<<< One day you really need to evaluate your calling, FL. You do have a talent when it comes to scripture…[/quote]I CAN"T TAKE IT!!! This is too scrumptious for words! I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at this display of the papist and the sodomite hand in hand against the gospel of grace. Really, God save me from falling headlong into a worldly and carnal eruption of snarling sarcasm.

511

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< Don’t tell me what I care about. I care about the truth, period. There may be a god, and that god may even be Jesus, but if he is, the traditional Christians have it right, and Calvin is way off base. Telling people that they are scum and will always be scum, and that no matter what they desire or choose, god will decide their fate, sounds like a bag of lies straight from Satan himself.[/quote]Calvinist ARE the traditional Christians LOL!!! Yer not gittin it. What I believe was the prevailing Christian view in the colonies. Take a peek if you dare, and see what glorious works of the doctrines of grace (TULIP) emanated from the true children of the reformation dwelling therein. LOL!!! I’m not sayin the country itself was Calvinistic, but a very large percentage of the Christians in it certainly were and they had tremendous influence. Even over that thoroughgoing Calvin hating political genius ol Tom Jefferson, who felt compelled to include the very VERY Calvinistic doctrine of PROVIDENCE in the D.O.I… Make no mistake my dear Elder Forlife, that doctrine came straight outta the Westminster Confession of Faith of 1646 wherein the God I have been here proclaiming lo these many months was most exultingly, majestically and ACCURATELY represented and honored for all to see.

Hate if you must, I’d be disappointed if you didn’t, but face the truth. Calvin wasn’t alone either ya know. Luther was first and there was also Farel, Beza, Bullinger and oh yes, my dear brother John Knox among others. Unstoppable warriors in the army of the most high God sent from heaven to free men from that abomination in Rome. Calvin was the most capable and prolific, but definitely not alone.
[/quote]

I didn’t realize traditional Christianity began with Calvin’s birth in 1509. My bad. Maybe B.C. should stand for “Before Calvin” rather than “Before Christ”? I guess there were no true Christians before Calvin set everything right.

And since when does predestination and total depravity reflect traditional Christianity? Predestination is synonymous with Calvanism, not Christianity; it is a disgusting heresy that robs men of free will and turns god into a narcissistic puppetmaster, and the vast majority of Christians see it as such.

I don’t hate you, I just call it like I see it. I think you’re a basically good person and are sincere, but you are sadly misguided all the same.

512

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Not the first time you’ve reeked like a Pharisee. No wonder Jesus compared you to a whited sepulcher. Everyone tells you how self-righteous and judgmental you come across, but it’s like you can’t help yourself.

Luke 18:

513

The doctrines of grace have been around since before creation Elder Forlife. That’s the point. The lamb was slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). Why? Because sin was already certain. Why? Because the Father God decreed it. Why? To set the stage for the display of HIS glory in both the judgment OF sin and the triumph of His Son OVER it. His sovereign might is everywhere from Genesis to Revelation and the mother church had Augustine right there telling her, 1600 years ago, but she buried it until God used the great reformers of the 16th century to shed it abroad once more. Oh it never went away and there were flickerings here and there, but at exactly the perfect time in His providence Luther nailed his 95 these on the door of that Cathedral in Wittenburg questioning what had by then become a monstrous bloated waddling caricature of everything Jesus came to save us from.

I do believe you are right about one thing. I did act the pharisee in that post about Pat and yourself. I handled it poorly. God forgive me and I apologize to you both.

514

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Because sin was already certain. Why? Because the Father God decreed it.[/quote]
You’re going to have a lot of trouble proving that. Especially, with creation being very good and all that before the fall.

515

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Because sin was already certain. Why? Because the Father God decreed it.[/quote]
You’re going to have a lot of trouble proving that. Especially, with creation being very good and all that before the fall.[/quote]Hey look Jake’s back!! What it is homes?

Trouble proving it he says LOL! I won’t have trouble proving it. It will be utterly IMPOSSIBLE to prove to folks who have as their preeminent first all governing principle the unshakable notion that their own intellect and will reigns supreme in the universe.

Of course all of God’s creation was good. It hadn’t fallen yet. However, in the unsearchable eternal purpose of almighty God, the Lamb was already slain because sin was already certain. Or else why… pray tell, is John, in a book entitled “The apokalypsis” apocalypse, Revelation of Jesus Christ, before ever a man there was, calling Him the Lamb already slain? The entire purpose is to demonstrate that God is in absolute control of absolutely everything including the origin of evil. Notice I didn’t say problem of evil because it IS NO problem for me.

You of course will not buy this. You will hurry me off to a bunch of passages stating the goodness and holiness of God as if I had never before seen such a thing and stand triumphantly pointing at them as if the horrid dragon of God’s sovereignty has been thereby soundly vanquished. I say to you a hearty NAY. You’ve missed a lot unless U wuz lurkin. I need some sleep, but it’s good ta see ya. I dunno how I’m supposed to answer the endless parade of actually useful posts that are directed at me every day.

516

[quote]kamui wrote:
two necessary and sufficient reasons to disbelieve anything Calvin wrote:

-He was a lawyer
-He was french.
[/quote]

Well, and he disobeyed authority. Pretty much dead in the water after that.

Even my very dear and beloved Fr. Corapi has disobeyed the authority of the Bishops, he did that this past Sunday and right now I am watching with an eye as if he were a rabid dog. I am not aware of all the circumstances, so I am being charitable, but someone who disobeys authority is always one to keep an eye on.

517

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Calvinist ARE the traditional Christians
[/quote]

Compared to whom, mainstream Protestants? Well that’s hardly claim to ‘traditional.’

If you actually crack open some of the ECF’s writings you will see that they are very much devout Catholics.

Hmm…

I wonder why no one actually takes me up on this.

518

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Because sin was already certain. Why? Because the Father God decreed it.[/quote]
You’re going to have a lot of trouble proving that. Especially, with creation being very good and all that before the fall.[/quote]Hey look Jake’s back!! What it is homes?

Trouble proving it he says LOL! I won’t have trouble proving it. It will be utterly IMPOSSIBLE to prove to folks who have as their preeminent first all governing principle the unshakable notion that their own intellect and will reigns supreme in the universe.

Of course all of God’s creation was good. It hadn’t fallen yet. However, in the unsearchable eternal purpose of almighty God, the Lamb was already slain because sin was already certain. Or else why… pray tell, is John, in a book entitled “The apokalypsis” apocalypse, Revelation of Jesus Christ, before ever a man there was, calling Him the Lamb already slain? The entire purpose is to demonstrate that God is in absolute control of absolutely everything including the origin of evil. Notice I didn’t say problem of evil because it IS NO problem for me.

You of course will not buy this. You will hurry me off to a bunch of passages stating the goodness and holiness of God as if I had never before seen such a thing and stand triumphantly pointing at them as if the horrid dragon of God’s sovereignty has been thereby soundly vanquished. I say to you a hearty NAY. You’ve missed a lot unless U wuz lurkin. I need some sleep, but it’s good ta see ya. I dunno how I’m supposed to answer the endless parade of actually useful posts that are directed at me every day.

[/quote]

So, what you’re saying is that all men are inherently evil.
And, because all men are evil, none, no not one, can do good.

Then you are also saying because Jesus is fully man, and no man, no not one, has done good and every man is evil because all men are inherently evil…that Jesus has not done good and is inherently evil. So…that throws a wrench into the Calvinist engine.

519

[quote]Tirib wrote:
abomination in Rome.[/quote]

Ah, yes. Anti-Catholicism, the last acceptable prejudice. Glad the bigot…leopard still has his spots.

520

And, so do I.