The Case Against Israel's Enemies

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Odogg wrote:

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

Another problem is, people have an idea of ownership over the land and they think that their right to the land is more important than someone else’s life. I don’t understand that. If someone wanted to take my land, to the point of bloodshed, I would move or join them. It’s simply not worth it. [/quote]

Some people are willing to die to protect what they have worked for.

If I wanted to make you my slave for 25 hours a week, for the next 20 years, and I was willing to be extremely violent about it, would you fight? What if I was a kind master and just made you work in my fields for those 25 hours?

I invested 25 hours a week, for the last 20 years, in mortgage payments on my home. And if somebody takes that, I have worked all those years for nothing. If it was my fault, then I might be able to stomach the loss. Otherwise…
[/quote]

Uhh, so the palestinian farmers and others who farmed the land Israel took after WWII don’t count? I just don’t understand why the indigenous people of that land had to pay the price for white european guilt. Those people are still pissed off and the Arab leaders fan the flames to make it a political issue.

/sarcasm on
Its hard work to pull off that colonial sh*t these days, you know with TV, newspapers, internet and such.
/sarcasm off
[/quote]

They sold the land to Israel. It was not stolen.[/quote]

The British took over everything in that area at the end of the Ottoman empire, then started handing it over to the UN to parcel out to the Jews on one side and the Palestinians on the other. So technically, the land was originally taken, but not by the Jews; by the British, who then sold it.

102

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Odogg wrote:

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

Another problem is, people have an idea of ownership over the land and they think that their right to the land is more important than someone else’s life. I don’t understand that. If someone wanted to take my land, to the point of bloodshed, I would move or join them. It’s simply not worth it. [/quote]

Some people are willing to die to protect what they have worked for.

If I wanted to make you my slave for 25 hours a week, for the next 20 years, and I was willing to be extremely violent about it, would you fight? What if I was a kind master and just made you work in my fields for those 25 hours?

I invested 25 hours a week, for the last 20 years, in mortgage payments on my home. And if somebody takes that, I have worked all those years for nothing. If it was my fault, then I might be able to stomach the loss. Otherwise…
[/quote]

Uhh, so the palestinian farmers and others who farmed the land Israel took after WWII don’t count? I just don’t understand why the indigenous people of that land had to pay the price for white european guilt. Those people are still pissed off and the Arab leaders fan the flames to make it a political issue.

/sarcasm on
Its hard work to pull off that colonial sh*t these days, you know with TV, newspapers, internet and such.
/sarcasm off
[/quote]

They sold the land to Israel. It was not stolen.[/quote]

The British took over everything in that area at the end of the Ottoman empire, then started handing it over to the UN to parcel out to the Jews on one side and the Palestinians on the other. So technically, the land was originally taken, but not by the Jews; by the British, who then sold it.[/quote]

Remarkably…no, astoundingly…incorrect.
Ignorance of this magnitude cannot be achieved naturally; it must be accomplished with tireless intention.

103

LOL. I read a few of Oleena’s posts - very entertaining stream of consciousness mixed with awkward argumentation.

104

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

It’s more complicated than one can explain on a forum. For a better understanding of the rise of Nazism read ‘The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich’ by William L Shirer.[/quote]

Perhaps the seminal work on WW 2. A certain classic. It’s on my shelf right now, and I looked for years to find it. I finally ran across a used hard cover copy at a local bookstore and bought it for 5 dollars!!! Best purchase ever.

105

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
What is it with jews and the number 6,000,000?

This number was first thrown around against Germany during WW1. Then, in the early 20’s, it was tacked on to the Soviet Union. And then, surprise, it comes back up against Germany during WW2.

And now here we go again with another 6,000,000 being brought up. Is 6,000,000 like catnip to dumb, Christian tools?[/quote]

The 6 million number always fascinated me, because this is roughly the number of Jews killed in concentration camps.

Now there were a lot of Jews killed elsewhere, in fact more than 6 million and a lot of other people died for the same reasons Jews were killed.

In my more cynical moments I also wonder in what capacity someone had to be killed to count among the victims of the Holocaust if he was say a socialist homosexual Jew.

106

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Odogg wrote:

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

Another problem is, people have an idea of ownership over the land and they think that their right to the land is more important than someone else’s life. I don’t understand that. If someone wanted to take my land, to the point of bloodshed, I would move or join them. It’s simply not worth it. [/quote]

Some people are willing to die to protect what they have worked for.

If I wanted to make you my slave for 25 hours a week, for the next 20 years, and I was willing to be extremely violent about it, would you fight? What if I was a kind master and just made you work in my fields for those 25 hours?

I invested 25 hours a week, for the last 20 years, in mortgage payments on my home. And if somebody takes that, I have worked all those years for nothing. If it was my fault, then I might be able to stomach the loss. Otherwise…
[/quote]

Uhh, so the palestinian farmers and others who farmed the land Israel took after WWII don’t count? I just don’t understand why the indigenous people of that land had to pay the price for white european guilt. Those people are still pissed off and the Arab leaders fan the flames to make it a political issue.

/sarcasm on
Its hard work to pull off that colonial sh*t these days, you know with TV, newspapers, internet and such.
/sarcasm off
[/quote]

They sold the land to Israel. It was not stolen.[/quote]

Really?

The IDF opened some of the archives of that time recently.

Care to do a little research?

107

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So you admit that there’s a pro-Israeli lobby in American but not that they might edit stories to be pro-Israel?[/quote]

  • Edit stories? Probably some conservatives working at Fox(the only major television media source that doesn’t suffer left-wing looney syndrome) have done so. What’s your point? That because a handful of conservatives are guilty of political editorial decisions there is a comparable amount of bias from both sides? Critical thinking. 50 politically edited stories from one side is not comparable to 50 million from the other. [/quote]

^^^These made up numbers indicate that you don’t actually know how many stories are being edited from either side.

“Nothing I’ve seen on TV or over the internet agrees with that”

  • I’m a pretty busy person and this thread is starting to tire me, but I’ll help you out:

I can find several thousand more such articles/websites by googling the words ‘liberal media bias’. You will also be able to do so on Youtube. I would recommend several scholarly books/articles/monographs on the subject but it would be a waste of my time and yours.

108

[quote]orion wrote:

The 6 million number always fascinated me, because this is roughly the number of Jews killed in concentration camps.

Now there were a lot of Jews killed elsewhere, in fact more than 6 million and a lot of other people died for the same reasons Jews were killed.

In my more cynical moments I also wonder in what capacity someone had to be killed to count among the victims of the Holocaust if he was say a socialist homosexual Jew.

[/quote]

Let’s assume that 6,000,000 figure isn’t complete horse shit, and not backed up by any factual, independent academic study.

If you had control over a detained, hostile group of people, while your nation was at war, with your resources being depleted to the point where you could barely feed, clothe and medically care for your citizens, would you bother doing so to those detained?

How many of that completely mythical and made up number could have possibly died from a host of diseases? Starvation? etc…etc…etc…

In this case, not many…As the jewish population post WW2, was actually LARGER than what it was before the Nazis supposedly started stuffing them in ovens hand over fist.

109

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

The 6 million number always fascinated me, because this is roughly the number of Jews killed in concentration camps.

Now there were a lot of Jews killed elsewhere, in fact more than 6 million and a lot of other people died for the same reasons Jews were killed.

In my more cynical moments I also wonder in what capacity someone had to be killed to count among the victims of the Holocaust if he was say a socialist homosexual Jew.

[/quote]

Let’s assume that 6,000,000 figure isn’t complete horse shit, and not backed up by any factual, independent academic study.

If you had control over a detained, hostile group of people, while your nation was at war, with your resources being depleted to the point where you could barely feed, clothe and medically care for your citizens, would you bother doing so to those detained?

How many of that completely mythical and made up number could have possibly died from a host of diseases? Starvation? etc…etc…etc…

In this case, not many…As the jewish population post WW2, was actually LARGER than what it was before the Nazis supposedly started stuffing them in ovens hand over fist. [/quote]

Most people in concentration camps actually did die from starvation and diseases.

1800 calories a day, hard labor and insane sanitary conditions will do that do people.

Also, the idea that Jews were somehow hostile is weird, because many Jews were decorated war veterans and even if it were true, I do not think that gassing hostile women and children can really be the answer.

Furthermore, there was a saying among American Jews during WWII, " YOu might think that you are American, bit Hitler knows that you are a Jew". It is absolutely possible that quite a lot of people declared themselves to be Jews after the Holocaust that did not before, especially if it could be used to escape to Israel from communism.

110

Interview with Nasser regarding his 1957 statement, RE ‘throwing Jews into the sea’:

“Why do you want to throw the Jews into the sea?”

Nasser:

“Colonization and Zionism combined to dispossess the inhabitants and establish a State founded on religion. How is it possible to accept the status quo when the Arabs were expelled, their property plundered and their women and children murdered?..Peace must be based on justice. The problem will not come to an end until justice is done. The Arabs fought the Crusaders, the Arabs have lived in the region for thousands of years?” (Egyptian Gazette, October 10, 1963)

Sounds like assent and a bullshit explanation for his statement to me. Does Nasser qualify as a primary source for a statement made by Nasser?

111

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Interview with Nasser regarding his 1957 statement, RE ‘throwing Jews into the sea’:

“Why do you want to throw the Jews into the sea?”

Nasser:

“Colonization and Zionism combined to dispossess the inhabitants and establish a State founded on religion. How is it possible to accept the status quo when the Arabs were expelled, their property plundered and their women and children murdered?..Peace must be based on justice. The problem will not come to an end until justice is done. The Arabs fought the Crusaders, the Arabs have lived in the region for thousands of years?” (Egyptian Gazette, October 10, 1963)

Sounds like assent and a bullshit explanation for his statement to me. Does Nasser qualify as a primary source for a statement made by Nasser?[/quote]

First, nowhere in this quote does he corroborate that he actually said it, second, link.

112

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Odogg wrote:

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

Another problem is, people have an idea of ownership over the land and they think that their right to the land is more important than someone else’s life. I don’t understand that. If someone wanted to take my land, to the point of bloodshed, I would move or join them. It’s simply not worth it. [/quote]

Some people are willing to die to protect what they have worked for.

If I wanted to make you my slave for 25 hours a week, for the next 20 years, and I was willing to be extremely violent about it, would you fight? What if I was a kind master and just made you work in my fields for those 25 hours?

I invested 25 hours a week, for the last 20 years, in mortgage payments on my home. And if somebody takes that, I have worked all those years for nothing. If it was my fault, then I might be able to stomach the loss. Otherwise…
[/quote]

Uhh, so the palestinian farmers and others who farmed the land Israel took after WWII don’t count? I just don’t understand why the indigenous people of that land had to pay the price for white european guilt. Those people are still pissed off and the Arab leaders fan the flames to make it a political issue.

/sarcasm on
Its hard work to pull off that colonial sh*t these days, you know with TV, newspapers, internet and such.
/sarcasm off
[/quote]

They sold the land to Israel. It was not stolen.[/quote]

The British took over everything in that area at the end of the Ottoman empire, then started handing it over to the UN to parcel out to the Jews on one side and the Palestinians on the other. So technically, the land was originally taken, but not by the Jews; by the British, who then sold it.[/quote]

Remarkably…no, astoundingly…incorrect.
Ignorance of this magnitude cannot be achieved naturally; it must be accomplished with tireless intention.[/quote]

Or perhaps simply different sources than what you’ve seen.

Instead of making assumptions of intention, you could just provide a link to better information if you have it.

The first place that I saw the information I provided was in the text “Stolen Voices” the second was through a discussion with a professor. The third was through numerous websites.

I’m always open to learning more. From everything that I’ve come in contact with: there was the Ottoman empire in the middle ages, which fell to Napolean who was Allied with Britian, who had a protectorate over it, handed it over to the UN, and eventually tried, with the UN guiding the motions, to parcel out the land between the Palestinians (Arabs) and Jews (providing a place for Jews to immigrate to).

Instead of being a jackass, try stating something of worth.

113

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So you admit that there’s a pro-Israeli lobby in American but not that they might edit stories to be pro-Israel?[/quote]

  • Edit stories? Probably some conservatives working at Fox(the only major television media source that doesn’t suffer left-wing looney syndrome) have done so. What’s your point? That because a handful of conservatives are guilty of political editorial decisions there is a comparable amount of bias from both sides? Critical thinking. 50 politically edited stories from one side is not comparable to 50 million from the other. [/quote]

^^^These made up numbers indicate that you don’t actually know how many stories are being edited from either side.

“Nothing I’ve seen on TV or over the internet agrees with that”

  • I’m a pretty busy person and this thread is starting to tire me, but I’ll help you out:

I can find several thousand more such articles/websites by googling the words ‘liberal media bias’. You will also be able to do so on Youtube. I would recommend several scholarly books/articles/monographs on the subject but it would be a waste of my time and yours.[/quote]

lol. Are you joking? Those are little known internet sites. I thought you had some real newscasts on widely watched public television from the way you were ranting.

If that’s all the bad press that exists, you can sleep soundly at night; no one gives a shit about those sources.

When you can come back with anywhere over 5 (because you originally said 50,000) news stories from a national television channel that don’t portray Israel as the victim, then I might concede that you have a point.

114

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Odogg wrote:

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

Another problem is, people have an idea of ownership over the land and they think that their right to the land is more important than someone else’s life. I don’t understand that. If someone wanted to take my land, to the point of bloodshed, I would move or join them. It’s simply not worth it. [/quote]

Some people are willing to die to protect what they have worked for.

If I wanted to make you my slave for 25 hours a week, for the next 20 years, and I was willing to be extremely violent about it, would you fight? What if I was a kind master and just made you work in my fields for those 25 hours?

I invested 25 hours a week, for the last 20 years, in mortgage payments on my home. And if somebody takes that, I have worked all those years for nothing. If it was my fault, then I might be able to stomach the loss. Otherwise…
[/quote]

Uhh, so the palestinian farmers and others who farmed the land Israel took after WWII don’t count? I just don’t understand why the indigenous people of that land had to pay the price for white european guilt. Those people are still pissed off and the Arab leaders fan the flames to make it a political issue.

/sarcasm on
Its hard work to pull off that colonial sh*t these days, you know with TV, newspapers, internet and such.
/sarcasm off
[/quote]

They sold the land to Israel. It was not stolen.[/quote]

The British took over everything in that area at the end of the Ottoman empire, then started handing it over to the UN to parcel out to the Jews on one side and the Palestinians on the other. So technically, the land was originally taken, but not by the Jews; by the British, who then sold it.[/quote]

Remarkably…no, astoundingly…incorrect.
Ignorance of this magnitude cannot be achieved naturally; it must be accomplished with tireless intention.[/quote]

Or perhaps simply different sources than what you’ve seen.

Instead of making assumptions of intention, you could just provide a link to better information if you have it.

The first place that I saw the information I provided was in the text “Stolen Voices” the second was through a discussion with a professor. The third was through numerous websites.

I’m always open to learning more. From everything that I’ve come in contact with: there was the Ottoman empire in the middle ages, which fell to Napolean who was Allied with Britian, who had a protectorate over it, handed it over to the UN, and eventually tried, with the UN guiding the motions, to parcel out the land between the Palestinians (Arabs) and Jews (providing a place for Jews to immigrate to).

Instead of being a jackass, try stating something of worth.[/quote]

I’ve been trying to help you but I’m starting to suspect you’re a troll. Napoleon was allied with Britain? The Ottoman empire fell to Napoleon?

I can’t actually believe that you’re that ignorant:

  1. Napoleon was NOT an allie of Britain. Britain was at war continuously with revolutionary France from 1793 to 1815 with the exception of a 2 month respite in 1802(Treaty of Amiens).

  2. Napoleon did NOT defeat the Ottoman empire. He defeated 20,000 Mamelukes at the Battle of the Pyramids then left Egypt/Syria and his own army behind after having his fleet destroyed(i.e. supply lines cut) by Nelson in the Battle of the Nile.

  3. The Ottoman empire was a wartime allie of Imperial Germany in the First World War and was not dissolved until 1922.

Please fight the temptation to post any more of your historical discoveries.

115

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So you admit that there’s a pro-Israeli lobby in American but not that they might edit stories to be pro-Israel?[/quote]

  • Edit stories? Probably some conservatives working at Fox(the only major television media source that doesn’t suffer left-wing looney syndrome) have done so. What’s your point? That because a handful of conservatives are guilty of political editorial decisions there is a comparable amount of bias from both sides? Critical thinking. 50 politically edited stories from one side is not comparable to 50 million from the other. [/quote]

^^^These made up numbers indicate that you don’t actually know how many stories are being edited from either side.

“Nothing I’ve seen on TV or over the internet agrees with that”

  • I’m a pretty busy person and this thread is starting to tire me, but I’ll help you out:

I can find several thousand more such articles/websites by googling the words ‘liberal media bias’. You will also be able to do so on Youtube. I would recommend several scholarly books/articles/monographs on the subject but it would be a waste of my time and yours.[/quote]

lol. Are you joking? Those are little known internet sites. I thought you had some real newscasts on widely watched public television from the way you were ranting.

If that’s all the bad press that exists, you can sleep soundly at night; no one gives a shit about those sources.

When you can come back with anywhere over 5 (because you originally said 50,000) news stories from a national television channel that don’t portray Israel as the victim, then I might concede that you have a point.[/quote]

They are internet sites that document liberal media bias in the largest newspapers in the world(more than 5 instances) including those owned by Illuminati grand master Rupert Murdoch.

I really couldn’t be bothered but I’ll try one last time:

Bernard Goldberg, 5 time Emmy award winning journalist who worked for CBS for 30 years published these books:

‘Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News’

and

‘A Slobbering Love Affair: The True (And Pathetic) Story of the Torrid Romance Between Barack Obama and the Mainstream Media’

and

‘Arrogance: Rescuing America from the Media Elite’

Will this end now? How about if I concede defeat? Napoleon and Britain were allies who defeated the Ottoman empire. There is no liberal media bias in Western democracies. I am a jackass. Okay?

116

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]Odogg wrote:

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:

Another problem is, people have an idea of ownership over the land and they think that their right to the land is more important than someone else’s life. I don’t understand that. If someone wanted to take my land, to the point of bloodshed, I would move or join them. It’s simply not worth it. [/quote]

Some people are willing to die to protect what they have worked for.

If I wanted to make you my slave for 25 hours a week, for the next 20 years, and I was willing to be extremely violent about it, would you fight? What if I was a kind master and just made you work in my fields for those 25 hours?

I invested 25 hours a week, for the last 20 years, in mortgage payments on my home. And if somebody takes that, I have worked all those years for nothing. If it was my fault, then I might be able to stomach the loss. Otherwise…
[/quote]

Uhh, so the palestinian farmers and others who farmed the land Israel took after WWII don’t count? I just don’t understand why the indigenous people of that land had to pay the price for white european guilt. Those people are still pissed off and the Arab leaders fan the flames to make it a political issue.

/sarcasm on
Its hard work to pull off that colonial sh*t these days, you know with TV, newspapers, internet and such.
/sarcasm off
[/quote]

They sold the land to Israel. It was not stolen.[/quote]

The British took over everything in that area at the end of the Ottoman empire, then started handing it over to the UN to parcel out to the Jews on one side and the Palestinians on the other. So technically, the land was originally taken, but not by the Jews; by the British, who then sold it.[/quote]

Remarkably…no, astoundingly…incorrect.
Ignorance of this magnitude cannot be achieved naturally; it must be accomplished with tireless intention.[/quote]

Or perhaps simply different sources than what you’ve seen.

Instead of making assumptions of intention, you could just provide a link to better information if you have it.

The first place that I saw the information I provided was in the text “Stolen Voices” the second was through a discussion with a professor. The third was through numerous websites.

I’m always open to learning more. From everything that I’ve come in contact with: there was the Ottoman empire in the middle ages, which fell to Napolean who was Allied with Britian, who had a protectorate over it, handed it over to the UN, and eventually tried, with the UN guiding the motions, to parcel out the land between the Palestinians (Arabs) and Jews (providing a place for Jews to immigrate to).

Instead of being a jackass, try stating something of worth.[/quote]

There are times when I read something of such majestic stupidity, that I think, “Never, in my lifetime, will it be exceeded.” You have outdone yourself and every one of my expectations.

The “link” with which you should be provided? How about a real history book…the libraries are full of them? Or perhaps a link to the real world would be better start.

Is there a female version of the jackass? Yes, and I have found her name.

118

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
What is it with jews and the number 6,000,000?

This number was first thrown around against Germany during WW1. Then, in the early 20’s, it was tacked on to the Soviet Union. And then, surprise, it comes back up against Germany during WW2.

And now here we go again with another 6,000,000 being brought up. Is 6,000,000 like catnip to dumb, Christian tools?[/quote]

Yes, because we made up a large part of that 6 million.

119

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
What is it with jews and the number 6,000,000?

This number was first thrown around against Germany during WW1. Then, in the early 20’s, it was tacked on to the Soviet Union. And then, surprise, it comes back up against Germany during WW2.

And now here we go again with another 6,000,000 being brought up. Is 6,000,000 like catnip to dumb, Christian tools?[/quote]

Yes, because we made up a large part of that 6 million.[/quote]

Actually, 6 million is the number of Jews estimated to have been killed in extermination camps, mass shootings and induced starvation/disease in ghettos/camps based on serious historical scholarship as opposed to the Ahmadinejad school. In addition 2-3 million Russians, 2 million Poles and as many Gypsies, homosexuals and Jehovah’s Witnesses as they could round up. By V-E Day more than three quarters of all European Jews had been exterminated.

120

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
What is it with jews and the number 6,000,000?

This number was first thrown around against Germany during WW1. Then, in the early 20’s, it was tacked on to the Soviet Union. And then, surprise, it comes back up against Germany during WW2.

And now here we go again with another 6,000,000 being brought up. Is 6,000,000 like catnip to dumb, Christian tools?[/quote]

Yes, because we made up a large part of that 6 million.[/quote]

Actually, 6 million is the number of Jews estimated to have been killed in extermination camps, mass shootings and induced starvation/disease in ghettos/camps based on serious historical scholarship as opposed to the Ahmadinejad school. In addition 2-3 million Russians, 2 million Poles and as many Gypsies, homosexuals and Jehovah’s Witnesses as they could round up. By V-E Day more than three quarters of all European Jews had been exterminated.[/quote]

Ahmadinejad never denied the Holocaust, he attacked the myth that was built surrounding it that he believes is used to further a Zionist agenda.

Does your ignorance know no bounds?

Oh well, you have me on ignore anyway, which is why you do not even knwo how much you embarass yourself.