The Body Weight Factor 2

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

The sentiment I wanted to express was that it seems like X has the mindset that what he does defines fitness.[/quote]

What gives you this idea? Fitness is a broad concept that usually involves trying to meet some level of “health”. That is NOT what bodybuilding is about at its core. No one cares how “healthy” the current Mr. Olympia is.

[quote]
It’s like talking to an extremist. Sure a lot of people got huge by bulking up and carry around weight but barber’s also used to be surgeons, we all thought eggs were bad for you and Cher used to have a daughter. Things change and mindsets change. [/quote]

Extremist? I don’t understand where you are even getting this from. Care to quote the exact post from me as written that shows this?

  1. That’s pretty much why my post and this thread aren’t in the bodybuilding forum, no? And I agree, fitness is vague and ever-changing and I believe that people who want to be and look “fit” would rather not walk around “full house”.

  2. Admittedly “extremist” is an exaggeration but you have been arguing the “full house” look which is on one side of the spectrum and refuse to even consider any other opinion other than yours. A handful (or many hand fulls) of anecdotal evidence has lead you to plant your feet into the ground and become an immovable object thus calling over flocks of unstoppable forces. This mentality would not hold up in any other science (especially in your practice) so why should it here?

3)People is a general term and should not be read as “especially Prof. X”. If I could quote the general population I would. I’m aware that you have rarely spoken about bicycle peddles on these forums so believe me when I say that my intention was not to make things up as I go.

Sure you may believe that one can maintain low BF while building muscle, you just tooth and nail don’t advocate it. That’s not the issue. Everybody can have their opinions.

[quote]setto222 wrote:

  1. That’s pretty much why my post and this thread aren’t in the bodybuilding forum, no? And I agree, fitness is vague and ever-changing and I believe that people who want to be and look “fit” would rather not walk around “full house”.[/quote]

This isn’t the “fitness” forum…and the goals of the individual matter the most, not some vague concept of “fitness”.

[quote]

  1. Admittedly “extremist” is an exaggeration but you have been arguing the “full house” [/quote]

Wait, stop. I have NOT been “arguing the full house look”. I even wrote that I am working on getting leaner right now. I simply clarified what that even means because people were relating that to some concept of obesity.

[quote]

look which is on one side of the spectrum and refuse to even consider any other opinion other than yours. A handful (or many hand fulls) of anecdotal evidence has lead you to plant your feet into the ground and become an immovable object thus calling over flocks of unstoppable forces. This mentality would not hold up in any other science (especially in your practice) so why should it here? [/quote]

What? What is this even referring to? What concept am I being “immovable” from?

[quote]

3)People is a general term and should not be read as “especially Prof. X”. If I could quote the general population I would. I’m aware that you have rarely spoken about bicycle peddles on these forums so believe me when I say that my intention was not to make things up as I go. [/quote]

I don’t even know what this means. I also wrote recently I ride my bicycle more…so what are you talking about here?

??? I don’t advocate that for someone WITH A GOAL OF BEING A HUGE FUCKER to do that because the goal is to build that muscle mass first…which takes all out effort alone.

No one has made this as some declaration for ALL lifters. I have listed how important the individual genetics of the lifter are. If someone has the genetics to make optimal gains in muscle mass and stay lean, than they should continue that. The FAULT is making body fat top priority if your goal is to literally push the limits in terms of overall muscle mass gained.

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Discrediting? Yes. Rude? No. Maybe passive aggressive, but considering the other poster noticed the same thing, you don’t think that maybe it can be seen that way? [/quote]

Discredit? Nope, I acknowledge when people have built impressive amounts of size. You get the tip of the hat from me as well as many others on here (that’s how it’s done right? I pay you a compliment and you give me the ‘good post’ reply?)

Actually, the other poster (Marshaldteach) understood what I said, when I explained why I referenced the particular accomplishments that I did for specific people. He apologized, we chuckled, and I have no issue with him.

This was a good post. I didn’t see a response to it.[/quote]

And you never shall.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

  1. That’s pretty much why my post and this thread aren’t in the bodybuilding forum, no? And I agree, fitness is vague and ever-changing and I believe that people who want to be and look “fit” would rather not walk around “full house”.[/quote]

This isn’t the “fitness” forum…and the goals of the individual matter the most, not some vague concept of “fitness”.

[quote]

  1. Admittedly “extremist” is an exaggeration but you have been arguing the “full house” [/quote]

Wait, stop. I have NOT been “arguing the full house look”. I even wrote that I am working on getting leaner right now. I simply clarified what that even means because people were relating that to some concept of obesity.

[quote]

look which is on one side of the spectrum and refuse to even consider any other opinion other than yours. A handful (or many hand fulls) of anecdotal evidence has lead you to plant your feet into the ground and become an immovable object thus calling over flocks of unstoppable forces. This mentality would not hold up in any other science (especially in your practice) so why should it here? [/quote]

What? What is this even referring to? What concept am I being “immovable” from?

[quote]

3)People is a general term and should not be read as “especially Prof. X”. If I could quote the general population I would. I’m aware that you have rarely spoken about bicycle peddles on these forums so believe me when I say that my intention was not to make things up as I go. [/quote]

I don’t even know what this means. I also wrote recently I ride my bicycle more…so what are you talking about here?

??? I don’t advocate someone WITH A GOAL OF BEING A HUGE FUCKER to do that because the goal is to build that muscle mass first…which takes all out effort alone.

No one has made this as some declaration for ALL lifters.[/quote]

My god man, I don’t want to argue with you over your cherry-picked analysis of my response to you.
-This isn’t the body building forum either. It is for people who just generally want to be bigger stronger and leaner. Or so I thought

-This entire thread is filled with you siding with the full-house look: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_bigger_stronger_leaner/full_house_?id=5574271&pageNo=0

-You are immovable from your beliefs that in order to build appreciable amounts of muscle, one must be willing to put on fat. If not, then what have all the shit storm arguments since the start of this sub-forums been about? They certainly haven’t been about people poking the Prof. X bear just to get a response.

-You asked me to quote you and I said it was a general statement that wasn’t singling you out. I CAN’T QUOTE YOU because I wasn’t referring to you specifically. People =/= Prof. X. The bicycle comment was to drive home the fact that I was fully aware that my bicycle analogy wasn’t referring to you.

-Well that’s your opinion and I can’t argue with it. Nobody can.

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Do you need to bulk up to gain LBM naturally? No.

Is it the most effective courses of action? Absolutely.

We’re I to take a young lifter under my wing, I would have him bulk up for 5 good years, from say 20-25.

Not “abs be damned” or anything, just focusing on adding weight to the bar and pounds to the scale.

If fat gain became an issue, calories would be carefully adjusted – no 12 or 16 week “cuts.”

After age 30 though, staying leaner is simply a better course of action. So get your bulking days in while you can![/quote]

I also really need to ask how this guy can write the EXACT SAME THING I have written for years here…and no one has a problem with it?

So…this means people only have a problem with concepts that could help them because they would rather argue with me instead?

I personally hope there are more people who understand what can actually help them reach a goal…instead of basing what they argue on how someone fits into their personal popularity contest.

[quote]setto222 wrote:

My god man, I don’t want to argue with you over your cherry-picked analysis of my response to you.
-This isn’t the body building forum either. It is for people who just generally want to be bigger stronger and leaner. Or so I thought[/quote]

Ok…so everyone who wants to be way bigger, you are saying they all must keep abs the whole way or else they did it wrong? Please clarify what it is you are saying…because it seems you are dismissing the goals of those with EXTREME SIZE as a goal as well…which ma take some time not looking ideal to reach.

[quote]

-This entire thread is filled with you siding with the full-house look:[/quote]

Please quote exactly what I wrote that you have an issue with.

[quote]

-You are immovable from your beliefs that in order to build appreciable amounts of muscle, one must be willing to put on fat. If not, then what have all the shit storm arguments since the start of this sub-forums been about? They certainly haven’t been about people poking the Prof. X bear just to get a response.[/quote]

These “shit storms” start because people just want to argue with me. Define “appreciable” amounts. I don’t see many people here my size…and my goal is to be even bigger. I am talking to people who want to reach that level of size or near it and who have the genetics to do it…not the average person. In most people with a goal of being that size, yes, it will have to be understood that some fat may come with it during the process.

Do you disagree with this? If so, how developed are you?

? So you are claiming I am saying things I am not saying and then will not quote what I do say?

You don’t even seem to understand my argument yet have a problem with it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Do you need to bulk up to gain LBM naturally? No.

Is it the most effective courses of action? Absolutely.

We’re I to take a young lifter under my wing, I would have him bulk up for 5 good years, from say 20-25.

Not “abs be damned” or anything, just focusing on adding weight to the bar and pounds to the scale.

If fat gain became an issue, calories would be carefully adjusted – no 12 or 16 week “cuts.”

After age 30 though, staying leaner is simply a better course of action. So get your bulking days in while you can![/quote]

I also really need to ask how this guy can write the EXACT SAME THING I have written for years here…and no one has a problem with it?

[/quote]

As most have stated, it’s not WHAT you say…it’s HOW you say it.

How can you not get that.

Most respect what you say…but you inevitably do not return the favor.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

As most have stated, it’s not WHAT you say…it’s HOW you say it.

[/quote]

If you or anyone else is filling a thread with 50 pages of nonsense because you don’t like HOW someone is writing things that you do AGREE with, that makes no sense at all.

So you would rather ignore advice that could help you…because you don’t like how it was written?

Why stop others from learning or getting something positive from it? They call that trolling.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Do you need to bulk up to gain LBM naturally? No.

Is it the most effective courses of action? Absolutely.

We’re I to take a young lifter under my wing, I would have him bulk up for 5 good years, from say 20-25.

Not “abs be damned” or anything, just focusing on adding weight to the bar and pounds to the scale.

If fat gain became an issue, calories would be carefully adjusted – no 12 or 16 week “cuts.”

After age 30 though, staying leaner is simply a better course of action. So get your bulking days in while you can![/quote]

I also really need to ask how this guy can write the EXACT SAME THING I have written for years here…and no one has a problem with it?

[/quote]

As most have stated, it’s not WHAT you say…it’s HOW you say it.

How can you not get that.

Most respect what you say…but you inevitably do not return the favor.

[/quote]

I’d be willing to bet that 80%+ of the time most take issue with what he says as well. A broken clock’s right at least two times a day.

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Do you need to bulk up to gain LBM naturally? No.

Is it the most effective courses of action? Absolutely.

We’re I to take a young lifter under my wing, I would have him bulk up for 5 good years, from say 20-25.

Not “abs be damned” or anything, just focusing on adding weight to the bar and pounds to the scale.

If fat gain became an issue, calories would be carefully adjusted – no 12 or 16 week “cuts.”

After age 30 though, staying leaner is simply a better course of action. So get your bulking days in while you can![/quote]

I agree.

Would you advocate keeping track of macros for the 20-25 year old while he is bulking? Could you give a general example of the type of diet you would have them on, for a 5’10 165lber?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Do you need to bulk up to gain LBM naturally? No.

Is it the most effective courses of action? Absolutely.

We’re I to take a young lifter under my wing, I would have him bulk up for 5 good years, from say 20-25.

Not “abs be damned” or anything, just focusing on adding weight to the bar and pounds to the scale.

If fat gain became an issue, calories would be carefully adjusted – no 12 or 16 week “cuts.”

After age 30 though, staying leaner is simply a better course of action. So get your bulking days in while you can![/quote]

I also really need to ask how this guy can write the EXACT SAME THING I have written for years here…and no one has a problem with it?

So…this means people only have a problem with concepts that could help them because they would rather argue with the awesome me instead?

I personally hope there are more people who understand what can actually help them reach a goal…instead of basing what they argue on how someone fits into their personal popularity contest.[/quote]
But isnt this what Stu and Zraw advocate also? That you add weight to the bar and eat enough to add scale weight? I think the issue was that they would keep a tighter grip on micros and adjust accordingly which is what I got from Bryan Krahns post. I think you all agree only a matter of degrees really

[quote]steven alex wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Do you need to bulk up to gain LBM naturally? No.

Is it the most effective courses of action? Absolutely.

We’re I to take a young lifter under my wing, I would have him bulk up for 5 good years, from say 20-25.

Not “abs be damned” or anything, just focusing on adding weight to the bar and pounds to the scale.

If fat gain became an issue, calories would be carefully adjusted – no 12 or 16 week “cuts.”

After age 30 though, staying leaner is simply a better course of action. So get your bulking days in while you can![/quote]

I also really need to ask how this guy can write the EXACT SAME THING I have written for years here…and no one has a problem with it?

So…this means people only have a problem with concepts that could help them because they would rather argue with me instead?

I personally hope there are more people who understand what can actually help them reach a goal…instead of basing what they argue on how someone fits into their personal popularity contest.[/quote]
But isnt this what Stu and Zraw advocate also? That you add weight to the bar and eat enough to add scale weight? I think the issue was that they would keep aa tighter grip on micros and adjust accordingly which is what I got from Bryan Krahns post. I think you all agree only a matter of degrees really[/quote]

yuuuup

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

As most have stated, it’s not WHAT you say…it’s HOW you say it.

[/quote]

If you or anyone else is filling a thread with 50 pages of nonsense because you don’t like HOW someone is writing things that you do AGREE with, that makes no sense at all.

So you would rather ignore advice that could help you…because you don’t like how it was written?

Why stop others from learning or getting something positive from it? They call that trolling.[/quote]

Not if you treat other peoples ideas like shit.

It’s called common courtesy…bloviating over somebody’s well thought out and proven idea is going to rub them the wrong way.

Stu wrote an elegant post on it one page ago.

Maybe you should give it a read.

[quote]steven alex wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bryan Krahn wrote:
Do you need to bulk up to gain LBM naturally? No.

Is it the most effective courses of action? Absolutely.

We’re I to take a young lifter under my wing, I would have him bulk up for 5 good years, from say 20-25.

Not “abs be damned” or anything, just focusing on adding weight to the bar and pounds to the scale.

If fat gain became an issue, calories would be carefully adjusted – no 12 or 16 week “cuts.”

After age 30 though, staying leaner is simply a better course of action. So get your bulking days in while you can![/quote]

I also really need to ask how this guy can write the EXACT SAME THING I have written for years here…and no one has a problem with it?

So…this means people only have a problem with concepts that could help them because they would rather argue with the awesome me instead?

I personally hope there are more people who understand what can actually help them reach a goal…instead of basing what they argue on how someone fits into their personal popularity contest.[/quote]
But isnt this what Stu and Zraw advocate also? That you add weight to the bar and eat enough to add scale weight? I think the issue was that they would keep a tighter grip on micros and adjust accordingly which is what I got from Bryan Krahns post. I think you all agree only a matter of degrees really[/quote]

That is why these “shit storms” make no sense. They can only happen if they distort what is being written.

I am here to discuss how to get swole. Hopefully there are enough new people here who can see through the nonsense.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Ok…so everyone who wants to be way bigger, you are saying they all must keep abs the whole way or else they did it wrong? Please clarify what it is you are saying…because it seems you are dismissing the goals of those with EXTREME SIZE as a goal as well…which ma take some time not looking ideal to reach.

[quote]

I’m not saying this at all. My argument is that it isn’t black and white and there isn’t a wrong way to do it. I am saying that there isn’t even necessarily a best way to do it.

[quote]
Please quote exactly what I wrote that you have an issue with.

[quote]

I don’t take issue with it. It’s a lifestyle that you said you prefer. How can I take issue with something as subjective at that? You said you weren’t in favor of full house and I pointed out a thread that you were.

[quote]
These “shit storms” start because people just want to argue with me. Define “appreciable” amounts. I don’t see many people here my size…and my goal is to be even bigger. I am talking to people who want to reach that level of size or near it and who have the genetics to do it…not the average person. In most people with a goal of being that size, yes, it will have to be understood that some fat may come with it during the process.

Do you disagree with this? If so, how developed are you?

[quote]

Nope. Don’t disagree with it because it is a matter of opinion. Because it has been done does not mean it’s the only way to do it. I am nowhere near as developped muscularly as you are. No where. But what does that have to do with it? You are a DMD (maxillo, correct?) so you would understand that in order to discuss science, one doesn’t necessarily have to be living proof that it works. Odds are you’ve never needed a bone graft and dental implant via a TMJ surgery but does that make you any less qualified to perform one?

What I’m getting at is that if I disagree, what would my development have to do with it?

[quote]
? So you are claiming I am saying things I am not saying and then will not quote what I do say?

[quote]

Nope. I’m claiming that you didn’t say those things and therefore can not quote you on them. Please read back.

My inability to quote is embarrassing.

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Discrediting? Yes. Rude? No. Maybe passive aggressive, but considering the other poster noticed the same thing, you don’t think that maybe it can be seen that way? [/quote]

Discredit? Nope, I acknowledge when people have built impressive amounts of size. You get the tip of the hat from me as well as many others on here (that’s how it’s done right? I pay you a compliment and you give me the ‘good post’ reply?)

Actually, the other poster (Marshaldteach) understood what I said, when I explained why I referenced the particular accomplishments that I did for specific people. He apologized, we chuckled, and I have no issue with him.

This was a good post. I didn’t see a response to it.[/quote]

Bump.

[quote]setto222 wrote:

I’m not saying this at all. My argument is that it isn’t black and white and there isn’t a wrong way to do it. I am saying that there isn’t even necessarily a best way to do it.

[/quote]

? We are talking about getting huge. There is pretty much one way to do it…make sure you are feeding your body enough to grow when it is ready to grow and have the genetics to get huge.

[quote]
I don’t take issue with it. It’s a lifestyle that you said you prefer. How can I take issue with something as subjective at that? You said you weren’t in favor of full house and I pointed out a thread that you were. [/quote]

In favor? Dude, you saw a discussion where some of us admitted that we wouldn’t mind looking like that. That isn’t defending anything but my own preference.

[quote]

Nope. Don’t disagree with it because it is a matter of opinion.[/quote]

But…it isn’t. It is not just matter of opinion that to gain a lot of muscle some fat may come with it. It is how it works.

[quote]
I am nowhere near as developped muscularly as you are. No where. But what does that have to do with it? [/quote]

Quite a bit because if you have never done what it takes to get really big, how would you know what it takes?

[quote]
You are a DMD (maxillo, correct?) so you would understand that in order to discuss science, one doesn’t necessarily have to be living proof that it works. Odds are you’ve never needed a bone graft and dental implant via a TMJ surgery but does that make you any less qualified to perform one? [/quote]

I’ve performed many…and that is what makes me qualified to do one along with intense training to do it.

Because you are disagreeing that some fat may come with gaining a lot of muscle. Most people who have done this understand this and do NOT disagree with it.

Well, if I didn’t say it, then you have nothing to take issue with in my responses.

Because you don’t need first hand experience in order to understand physiology. We get it X. You’re big. Well done.

[quote]setto222 wrote:
Because you don’t need first hand experience in order to understand physiology. We get it X. You’re big. Well done. [/quote]

This isn’t about “physiology” alone. This is about how you cause your body to gain the most muscle possible. Yes, that tends to take having built a lot of muscle to fully understand all that is involved…from changes to gait, how you carry yourself, to changes n how your body feels at certain weights and its adaptability.

Once again, are you arguing against the statement that “to gain the most muscle possible, you should accept that some fat may be gained as well”?