I agree with George. I’ve tried heavy pulldowns before, but discovered it did zilch for chins. Pulldowns are misleading, chins & pull-ups are much tougher and more effective.
[quote]cavalier wrote:
I agree with George. I’ve tried heavy pulldowns before, but discovered it did zilch for chins. Pulldowns are misleading, chins & pull-ups are much tougher and more effective.[/quote]
Mmm…ok. For some reason i find lat pulls strangely satisfying ,maybe at the moment simply because i have put some work in there and seen a rapid increase in the weight that i am pulling.
It may also be a carry-over from years ago when they were seen as a useful exercise for a climber.
I agree though–time to make the change over and just get on the pull up bar in the gym and at home.
Having a total rest day today, dumping fluid like crazy.
(edit…spending the evening ,and i suspect, many more to come with Dan Johns book ‘never let go’.)
Well, I don’t mean that pulldowns are useless. I use them to work lats and do chins for overall pulling strength.
I just remember my early years lifting when I kept clicking up the weights on machines and more or less cheated to get it up. discovered that body weight and barbell exercises were much more demanding on form.
If you used to climb, I’m sure you’ve got latent strength back there, which will make all pulling exercises easier.
Cav, i did forget to add that there is a bit of shallowness and vanity involved : while i was in france the gym at arna did have a couple of pull down stations and i noticed that every time that somebody got on the machine after me they had to drop the weights back–and some of those guys were a lot bigger looking !!.
Even in my own gym i seem to pull down more weight on average and that is in comparison to guys who can bench eeaily double my pathetic efforts–so it makes me feel a bit less of a wimp !!.
Maybe the carry over from my climbing days and i have to add my maxi sailing days (think jump hoisting a big maxi-boat headsail) is that i may just be used to having to lull down more weight for more repetitions.
Whatever i do think that moving to pull ups and chin ups is the right progression and challenge, after all i havn’t yet got to 10 straight pulls or chins …and…i took the time to bolt a pull up bar at the back door.
Today carried on with the theme of experimenting with different workouts.
Because i am in the middle of reading Dan John’s excellent book it is heavily influenced by him, whatever it was damned hard going.
I did have 2 clear days off, except that yesterday was spent throwing things around the garage and building a new workbench.
So today, surprisingly stiff (back mainly) after 2 good days off the weights.
The main experiment today was starting with a ‘complex’ as a warm up so after going through a range of movement exercise i did the following with a bare oly bar.
2 sets of : (movements)
Deadlift move 8
Overhead press 8
Barbell squat 8
Bent over row 8
Curl 8 (it’s ok noone was watching!!)
Clean and press 8.
That is a surprisingly good workout in it’s own right and might become part of my home routine, good pulse raiser and it felt right on the range of movement.
Main work focussed on just 1 main lift. (squats)
Barbell warm up 1x10
kb (goblet) warm up 25kg 1x10
Barbell 40kg 1x10
Db (goblet) 36kg 1x10
Barbell 50kg 2x8
Db goblet 1x8
Barbell 60kg 1x5
Db goblet 40kg 1x5
Then a drop :
Barbell 40kg 1x10
Kb 25kg 1x10
Then
Barbell 55kg 1x5
Db goblet 40 1x5.
That was playing around with the ‘wave’ idea as i think i get the best sets somewhere in the middle of a workout and not at the end.
In between squats : chins ups 6x5 … deliberately not using lat pulls this week !!.
Quick break with :
Grabbing 2 25kg kb’s and walking around the gym with them (got some very odd looks from the mice)
Felt quite good so had a look at the bench as well using the same wave idea.
Bench bare bar warm up 1x10
30kg 1x10 second warm up
40kg 1x10
50kg 1x8
30kg 1x10
55kg–wouldn’t go
so 50kg 1x5.
Felt really hard but i think i get the idea where that might go.
Finishing with another 2 sets of the warm-up complex +
kb swings (16kg) 2x20
Press-ups 2x10.
Into town for hair cut…wasn’t watching what was happening with the clippers so instead of a ‘4 and 2’ ended up with a ‘2 and 1’…me skinhead !!!
Edit…also shopped for a new pair of every day training shorts, would normally pick up an xl–but had to go for large because the xls all but fell off by themselves. Havn’t worn a large in anything in 20 years. Nice (vain !!!)
Notes to self :
1.I need an oly bar at home
2.Don’t let the guy who is trying to come off the booze do my haircut next time.
Nurse, I understand perfectly about the vanity. In my gym - hell, in every gym I’ve ever been - the other guys always do more weight than me and it’s just painful. The only place I’ve been able just to keep up is calf raises, always been moderately strong there, don’t know why.
If there’s an exercise where you look good, by all means do it, it’s a badly needed ego boost.
The haircut sounds weird. A few months ago, got a haircut where the guy stopped halfway through and asked the other barber for help, he had no idea what he was supposed to be doing. This as he was waving scissors and razor around my ears. Help . . . .
[quote]cavalier wrote:
Nurse, I understand perfectly about the vanity. In my gym - hell, in every gym I’ve ever been - the other guys always do more weight than me and it’s just painful. The only place I’ve been able just to keep up is calf raises, always been moderately strong there, don’t know why.
If there’s an exercise where you look good, by all means do it, it’s a badly needed ego boost.
The haircut sounds weird. A few months ago, got a haircut where the guy stopped halfway through and asked the other barber for help, he had no idea what he was supposed to be doing. This as he was waving scissors and razor around my ears. Help . . . .
[/quote]
Maybe it’s the same guy and he was drinking hard that day and drying out today !!
Must say i look ‘well ard’.
Tonights work.
Middle night of a set of shifts so it’s yet another try at having a short but effective workout in between getting up and going on-shift ,gym time today was limited to just half an hour in and out after walking to the gym.
The walk in is definitely worth it, nice to see some daylight .
Today i just worked with another Dan John idea which is just 1 main lift. I specifically didn’t pair the main lift with anything this time, no assistance work, no other lift just deadlifted.
Warm up :
Dan Johns barbell complex, 1 round of bare barbell : 8 reps each move
Deadlift movement,back squat, good morning, ohp, clean.
Then 1 set with 25kg same reps…have to say that this feels like a really good prep for lifting and might even become a good progressive home ‘movement’ based daily exercise just to keep everything moving, especially for 'light’days.
So, onto deadlift.
60kg warm up 1x10
80kg 1x8
90kg 1x5
60kg 1x10
100kg 1x5
110 kg 1
60kg deload 1x10.
( i think that pulling 100 kg for 5 is progress for me and it was nice to get back to a previous pb with nice control)
Kb swings and kb squat to finish.
Short ,sweet and i hope effective.
(edit) i have noticed over the last 2 weeks training that DOMS has been a real problem, i did put this down to higher volume workouts with almost continous work eg exercises back to back, i havn’t however been taking fish oil (ran out) during that time but am back on it now and have been a lot more comfortable since taking it again.
Damn, you’re getting strong at deadlift. You’re almost at my level, and it took me years. Is it possible your rock climbing is helping?
Cav–it’s the one lift that i would still say is brutal and intimidating, i make no excuses for feeling like that–it simply is a very very hard thing to do , i know that what i can deadlift is tiny compared to most of the over 35 lifters but with a real history of back problems it’s the one i approach with real trepidadtion each time.
Interesting though also that i never see anyone dl at the gym aside from 1 or 2 other lifters.
I do feel that there will be an earlier and lower limit to my dl where i think ‘ok’ that feels like a safe limit for now !!. I would like to be safely dominating my current levels before going any higher–and that’s a lot about feel.
My back is still probably a weak area from previous injuries and still feels very injury prone so one thing i really want to do is start working to make it as stable as possible and that looks like a lot of core work to come.
I think the big lesson this week is to treat the dl session as a lift completely on it’s own, get completely prepped for it…i was even thinking today that it would probebly be better once i have done the dan john complex warm up to then do the posterior chain explosive work first ie the kb swings–and for a while concentrate on getting a heavier swing going.
Looks like i need to explore the glute ham raise (Never done) and lots of back work before the dl.
Interesting times… and my main feeling is that i have crossed some sort of line where the obvious beginner gains have slowed right down and now i am in a different phase where i simply have to be a lot smarter about the lifting the prep and the recovery.
How is the sheiko going with you…sounds really tough ??
Umm, I said “strong”, not “weak”. By my standards, your deadlift is growing by leaps and bounds. I was comparing your progress to my progress, and since my progress has been gawdawful, everyone looks like Hercules by comparison. What you call “beginner gains” has taken me years and years to equal.
Sheiko is tough, but at least it keeps me off the streets.
[quote]cavalier wrote:
Umm, I said “strong”, not “weak”. By my standards, your deadlift is growing by leaps and bounds. I was comparing your progress to my progress, and since my progress has been gawdawful, everyone looks like Hercules by comparison. What you call “beginner gains” has taken me years and years to equal.
Sheiko is tough, but at least it keeps me off the streets.[/quote]
No worries cav–my own perception is ‘weak’ not so much in the dl which i see hardly anyone do, but when someone comes along and does a quick warm up with my 1 rep max bench i just want to crawl out in shame !!!
Well, now that you brought it up, my bench also sucks.
Better run over and do some lat pulldowns.
[quote]cavalier wrote:
Well, now that you brought it up, my bench also sucks.
Better run over and do some lat pulldowns.[/quote]
Do a few curls as well (as long as nobody is watching !!)
Nurse, what I’m trying to explain to you is that you’ve only been weight lifting for about 3 months now, yet you’ve advanced all the way up to a 110 kg deadlift. That is TREMENDOUS progress. If your other lifts are going up that quickly, then believe me, there is NOTHING wrong with your body. Especially considering you’ve had to contend with erratic schedules.
Please listen to me when I tell you that blows my record out of the water. It took me years of straining, sweating, lifting, pushing, pulling before I ever got my deadlift to 100 kg (225 lbs). And then it took me 3 more years - YEARS - before I finally ground it up to 255 lbs.
As a nurse, I’m sure you see lots of people in bad shape. Can some of them DL 100 kg in only 3 months? Three years? Three decades?
Every time you want to feel you have it hard, remember - not compared to some people.
Fairly said and noted cav.
There is something going on in ‘nurse world’ that i find it difficult to put across in words but the nearest i can get to it is wanting and relishing the struggle and the fight, Dylan Thomas’s ‘Rage Hard’ comes to mind.
I think it comes out the wrong way sometimes on the thread but like many of the other over 35 threads where there is real guts and integrity coming across i am trying to write it as i experience it almost day by day and it’s probably a bit raw because that’s the way i am experiencing it.
Up until 18 months ago i would say that i lived a very ‘grey’ life that was slipping into a typical 50 something mediocrity and with the black dog sitting on my chest most mornings, now it’s a daily fight with a piece of iron which i somehow both lose and win every day.
I think i am also continously surprised at the moment that i am actually making progress in something that just a few months ago i thought that i would never do ie lift weights.
As a complete sports clutz at school all those years ago i think that i have a really low personal expectation of any physical ability at all–it was a huge surprise when i did climb that i actually could climb, call it under confidence or whatever but at 53 it’s still a ridiculous hangover.
The other side is that so far i have also had amazingly happy moments related to this ‘sport’ ie gone home from the gym on a total high just because i have lifted a heavy weight off the floor !!.
Not making much sense this morning !!
Makes sense to me.
Change of pace here.
Yesterday was my partner/gf/non-wife (whatever) first session at the gym. When she got home i asked her how she got on and basically the answer is :
- Trainer is crumpet (quote)
- Aren’t there lots of fatties there (quote)
I did ask her what they had done on which she was a bit vague so asked her to describe the various exercises -on which we got a lot of wiggling and arm waving—so we have a new game in the house which i call exercise charades !! ie she does the movements and i have to guess what the exercise is !!!.
This was fine until she started doing the whole hip thrusting thing when i thought that either she is doing some kb swings …or i really do need to talk to the trainer !!
Whatever…she enjoyed it and i am glad that she is going and apparently ‘likes’ her trainer.
Today was a first in that we walked down there together , she had a session on the treadmill but admits that it is “boring as hell” so came over to the weights section and went through the 5 movement dan john complex with me but with a vipr tube rather than a barbell.
I showed her how to set up the squat cage and tried her on rear squat with the bare bar but she was quite sore in her shoulders and pecs so that didn’t work but was quite happy on a few sets of goblets with a lighter kb .
Unsurprisingly she has better depth and flexibility with a light weight than i do.
My own session was pretty crap in that it was a post nights session so i went in feeling both stiff/tight and tired. Bench was really weak…at least now i know not to take it too personally when i have these poor post shifts sessions…it will pick up during the days off.
“Trainer is crumpet”???
I swear, I have to put all you Brits through Google translate. BTW, congrats to your partner’s decision to start working out. Glad she likes it so much.
[quote]cavalier wrote:
“Trainer is crumpet”???
I swear, I have to put all you Brits through Google translate. BTW, congrats to your partner’s decision to start working out. Glad she likes it so much.[/quote]
Err…lets see
Crumpet = Totty (man totty) fit ??..shaggable ?? .
Doesn’t really translate, help me out here ladies.