I always thought he sounded kinda like Madonna did when she acquired her British accent for a few years.
Many of his Twitter/X posts express his disdain for and the supposed inferiority of other men. For example, ā95% of men are trash,ā which I believe in Tateās terms, means 95% of men are not gorillionaires with harems.
I remember back when I was younger, self-help content, though much of it goofy and ludicrous, seemed well intentioned. These days Iāve seen content that consists of āalphaā content creators degrading their audiences. Iām not sure how that works.
Tate is an example of the typical loudmouth behind a screen. Probably all of us here have spent time in places where things donāt end well for men who bark and bellow at other men, including those where his beloved OGās swimminā in hoes reside.
I havenāt followed closely. What I know about him is he does some kickboxing, keeps sexually available women around with contention that there could be unwilling trafficking going on, and is largely disliked due to his views and attitudes, which may or may not play in to being guilty in the public court.
I read some self-help stuff early on in sales but found it to be primarily fluff. Basically set goals and then read 15 chapters about how to feel good about them and pay to attend seminars discussing the chapters. I tend to be pretty pragmatic so I donāt really get caught up in the positive or negative messaging. If I want something Iāll figure out how to get it. And I think thatās the crux of 95% of challenges people face. I did see a YouTube clip of a ācampā where men pay thousands of dollars to get yelled at until they ābreakā and rebuild stronger. It didnāt make sense to me. I donāt get it either. Interesting model though. Seems more like feeding on weak men than building them.
I have zero affiliation or desire to join, but went to a birthday party for the President of the dominant motorcycle club in Texas. Not a chapter president but the big guy. Never met him, there were thousands of people there. Anyways, someone was mouthing off about being better/tougher et cetera, sort of like Tate does online. He was stabbed multiple times, stomped unconscious and maybe worse and loaded up in a truck to be dropped off somewhere inconspicuous. I left shortly after that, but I know what you mean.
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I feel the same way. I thought some stuff about goal setting, mindset, and planning was alright, but again, like you said, much of it is fluff. I have seen some content about these menās camps in which instructors bully and degrade attendees to build them up, kind of like a tough-love thing, though I believe the instructors simply like abusing troubled men. There was a death in one of them, if I recall correctly.
I know some Gen X and late-Boomer men who in their younger years were heavily involved in the NYC graffiti subculture (most gangs back then had graffiti writers and brawlers/criminals or those who were both) who did serious damage to other men or had it done to them, who would love nothing better than to swarm someone like Tate like a pack of piranhas on meat. I was mesmerized by graffiti at a very young age (seven years old) because I grew up around so much of it, but did not get involved when I grew older because Iām not criminally inclined and, thankfully, that scene died down when I got to high school, which was a place for some of NYCās most prolific writers.
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The irony is that they arenāt making them stronger men; they are making them into what they believe a stronger man is. Meaning, these men are not finding out who they are or who they want to be, but simply conforming to someone elseās idea of who they should be.
Iām marginally curious to see the marketing for these places. Who is the target the market and what, specifically, are the deficiencies these camps are purporting to fix? Or is it just āyou feel like a pussy and probably are, so come get yelled at for a few days and toughen upā?
Supposedly self-confidence, but I doubt it works.
Folks could take up a martial art, an art medium, or even yoga and get a lot further.
I donāt think those camps do much for anyone, except maybe make a few of them feel like theyāre basically SEALs. I do think more young men do need to be okay with getting yelled at though. My dadās been a mason for 20 or so years and says they lose most of their new guys because the second they mess up and some grumpy old timer yells at them, they quit. Rather than take it for what it is - a non-personal expression of someoneās frustration, that everyone else will have forgotten about within seconds, they get their feelings hurt or embarrassed and leave.
Iām not saying yelling is the form of teaching, but most guys should be able to take it with a grain of salt and let it roll off their backs.
Interesting. I doubt it works too. The clip I saw didnāt show any form of realized, tangible accomplishment or anything about innate self-value. Just people crying and getting yelled at. I bet theyāre still pussies when they get home, which Iām sure can only lead to even deeper feelings of worthlessness as they realize they still have to find internal substance even after all the yelling.
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Both. And it is the same sort of men Tate seeks to āhelp,ā though from what Iāve seen, these bizarre boot camps have older attendees. And I believe I am right with my conclusion that such a demographic of men are the direct result of what Iāve been posting about for some time: the feminization of society at large. From the 1960s and onwards, significant amounts of men had no dads or negligent dads and were full-time raised by neurotic mommies at home and educated by mommies all throughout school. Couple this with 100% erosion of male spaces, and arrested development, lack of life skills, and low-self esteem occurs for so-called ānice guysā and criminality and social deviance for the more reckless.
It used to be that women, when looking at the real world, would say they wished they were men (not literally) because of the perceived and real lack of opportunities for women. Now, men want to literally be women. And, you have some women who, when looking at men today, think they can literally be men.
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Itās hard to argue this is wrong, I just disagree on some of the finer points of where & when feminism is unhealthy.
I think soft men have always been around but they could be and likely are increasing by degree.
As an alternative thought, the internet gives us views in to weird things we would never think about or even know of so I think that can skew our views as well. For example, Iāve only heard of these camps and Andrew Tate on the internet. Tate may have been in mainstream news for a while, but he wouldāve been in one ear and out of the other in my consciousness pre-social media.
I canāt speak to this personally as I had a traditional family growing up, and am providing for one now, with the caveat that my wife has a career. At home we tend to follow typical gender roles, and I am the dominant partner. Maybe a function of gender, maybe a function of personality, probably a mix of both.
I observationally agree that males who donāt have a testosterone outlet to channel energy within are going to wind up being destructive. Or theyāre going to be shamed and brow beaten out of displaying masculine traits, which is probably worse.
I donāt understand the female desire to either be male, or limit males to female outlooks but I think the erosion of male spaces may be regional. I see it in national groups like Boy Scouts, but regionally Iām in an area where women like to be women and they like masculine men. There are a few weirdos running around but I donāt think we are as far gone as virile online stuff makes it seem. If I unplug almost all the bullshit disappears, but I realize mileage can vary by area.
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I speak with personal experience: being raised by an overworked (and I donāt mean overworked by attending a job, but by doing the jobs of two parents oneself) neurotic mother, though she did her best and bent over backwards for us, as she does for my children in ways she can, was a serious hindrance for all of us. My mom admits, and despite being in a āprogressiveā era, will emphatically state that when fatherly authority is eroded, you can kiss a household goodbye.
My own brother served time, every man I know who has, and nearly all the prison population are fatherless. Fatherlessness is linked to every social deviance.
I believe it does, depending on the demographics of different places. Iām 45 years old, and I believe growing up in the latchkey-kid early 90s in the boroughs of NYC was unhealthy and maladaptive for many, including those who were lower-middle or middle class. Some people who Iāve kept in touch with and my friends agree. It resulted in emotional, social, and intellectual stunting. Pardon my language, but many of the people I grew up and attended school with were very fucking weird!
Thankfully I know plenty of what NOT to do with my son and daughter.
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I knew a guy that had a wierd fixation with SEALs/SF guys. He came from a really rich area, went to a great university, and worked near the top of finance/investment as a money guy.
But his thing was that he wasnāt one of the Elite. Like, no matter what it was he did he always had to be like the best of the best, and thats one thing he never accomplished.
He did mention wanting to go to one of these camps and started calling the 12 steps Evolutions.
Thats when I wrote him off as a goofy cock worshipper. Like it doesnāt matter how big his is, that guys is bigger! And you canāt buy beg borrow or steal what those guys have done.