[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
It’s annoying as hell when people tell you that your religion isn’t based on real evidence instead of faith.[/quote]
^^ There’s no proof Jesus was divine. Sorry if the truth hurts.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
It’s annoying as hell when people tell you that your religion isn’t based on real evidence instead of faith.[/quote]
^^ There’s no proof Jesus was divine. Sorry if the truth hurts.[/quote]
^^ There’s no proof the universe wasn’t created five minutes ago long with your memory. Sorry if the truth hurts.
Moreover, there is proof that Jesus was divine…you just haven’t seen it.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
It’s annoying as hell when people tell you that your religion isn’t based on real evidence instead of faith.[/quote]
^^ There’s no proof Jesus was divine. Sorry if the truth hurts.[/quote]
^^ There’s no proof the universe wasn’t created five minutes ago long with your memory. Sorry if the truth hurts.
Moreover, there is proof that Jesus was divine…you just haven’t seen it.[/quote]
Good answer, Bro C!
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
It’s annoying as hell when people tell you that your religion isn’t based on real evidence instead of faith.[/quote]
^^ There’s no proof Jesus was divine. Sorry if the truth hurts.[/quote]
^^ There’s no proof the universe wasn’t created five minutes ago long with your memory. Sorry if the truth hurts.
Moreover, there is proof that Jesus was divine…you just haven’t seen it.[/quote]
No one has evidence of Jesus’s divinity.
Please provide the proof you have Brother Chris
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
It’s annoying as hell when people tell you that your religion isn’t based on real evidence instead of faith.[/quote]
^^ There’s no proof Jesus was divine. Sorry if the truth hurts.[/quote]
^^ There’s no proof the universe wasn’t created five minutes ago long with your memory. Sorry if the truth hurts.
Moreover, there is proof that Jesus was divine…you just haven’t seen it.[/quote]
Good answer, Bro C!
[/quote]
Only if you’re a moron. He has yet to provide anything substantial.
I have proof leprechaun’s exist… you just haven’t seen it.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
No one has evidence of Jesus’s divinity.
[/quote]
Where is your proof?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
No one has evidence of Jesus’s divinity.
[/quote]
Where is your proof?[/quote]
Of what? I’m not claiming to know who god is or if a god in fact exists.
If you’re going to claim that you know who god is then you need proof not me.
Or you can just admit your beliefs are on based on blind faith.
Both of you are being absolutely ridiculous.
Brother Chris: If someone were to say to you that they have seen proof that God does not exist, or that perhaps multiple gods exist as in Hinduism or even in ancient Greece, you’d chalk it up to disillusionment of some kind. If someone claimed to have some sort of vision of this, or to have spoken to them or something along those lines, you’d call them confused or delusional. It is beyond egotistical and pretentious to sit here and say that you have seen proof of something as mysterious and powerful as ANY god.
My point this entire time is that it is NOT faith if you have seen “proof” of God’s existence. If God exists and you have seen the proof, you really don’t have much of a choice regarding your beliefs. You can reject Him or you can accept Him, there is no other choice. So if you follow Him, that isn’t faith. If God exists, then Heaven must also exist, and if we know that it DOES exist, how can our actions be motivated by anything else but our selfish need to be closer to Him?
If you act the exact same way, but you can acknowledge that He may not exist, that you may be wrong, THAT is faith. I’m sorry BrotherChris, but you simply don’t have faith by definition of the word. And this is much more than just an argument about semantics.
Rajraj: You’re just a plain idiot. Demanding proof of the existence of something that requires no proof is pointless and it’s a cheap argument. It’s dipshits like you who lead devout people like BrotherChris to start searching for proof of God’s existence in everything they do.
You know that there is no way to prove that God exists, so for you to rest your entire argument on that basis reveals the utter lack of knowledge you have about spirituality in general. You cannot prove that God does NOT exist, so you’ve really just boxed yourself into a little corner. This question of existence is your only refuge since you clearly know nothing about religion or faith.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Both of you are being absolutely ridiculous. [/quote]
Obviously you’re a huge faggot if you put someone on ignore yet still challenge what they write in their posts. Great way to debate asshole. But for others…
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Rajraj: Demanding proof of the existence of something that requires no proof is pointless and it’s a cheap argument.
[/quote]
I disagree, proof the existence of god to ME and many others requires proof. I don’t believe substantial claims in any other aspects of my life to be truthful without evidence, so why would I in this case?
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
You know that there is no way to prove that God exists, so for you to rest your entire argument on that basis reveals the utter lack of knowledge you have about spirituality in general. [/quote]
For your information I grew up in a household with decently religious parents and have a decent understanding of spirituality. I do not claim to be an expert.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
You cannot prove that God does NOT exist, so you’ve really just boxed yourself into a little corner. [/quote]
BULLSHIT. I have not claimed god does or doesn’t exist, all I have said is there is no evidence Jesus was divine which is a FACT.
Haha! Looks like a really struck a nerve there, didn’t I rajraj? I took you off of ignore about 30 minutes after I put you on it because I realized I was being immature. It’s unfortunate that you lack the mental capacity or the humility to come to the same obvious conclusion about yourself.
You say you don’t believe substantial claims in any other area of your life without existence, so why would you in this case? And then you go on to say you know a thing or two about spirituality. The fact that you demand proof of Jesus’ divinity (and unless you’re Jewish, demanding proof of Jesus’ divinity is, by extension, to demand the existence of God. But that’s not the point here.) is damning evidence that you know absolutely NOTHING about spirituality.
That’s what separates faith and spirituality from any other aspect of your life; faith exists independent of proof. Faith is not nuclear physics, it’s not math, it’s not archaeology. Proof does not apply here at all. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the definition of faith.
You further reveal your lack of an understanding in regards to faith when you claim that your parents’ religious beliefs somehow instill in you knowledge about faith. You’re right; you are no expert and as far as proving that you are no expert, you are without peers. Belief system is entirely different from faith. Religion is entirely different from faith. Stew on that for a little while. Let’s bring this back to “proof” of Jesus’ divinity.
There is no way for that to be proven or for it to be proven that He isn’t divine. Your deathgrip on this proof thing is pointless in that respect, and as I said earlier, you cling to this argument because you have no other leg to stand on.
I have never come on here and criticized people for having religious beliefs, only for claiming that their beliefs are based on empirical evidence or “proof”. I think that BrotherChris searches for evidence of God and calls this proof in part because religious people in general are constantly bombarded with demands for proof, with demands for tangible reasons. I suppose I would eventually do the same as well.
But what is lost in all of this is this: both of you have strayed from what’s really important here. The Message. I believe in the message of Jesus Christ. I don’t need proof of his divinity to understand the point and the veracity of his message. I try to live my life in accordance with this, to a certain extent. I am not concerned with the messenger delivering the message. Whatever Higher Power it is that exists, that Power has placed inside of me the ability to differentiate from what is right and what is wrong.
If a slug were to crawl out of my vegetable garden and up onto my lap as I type this and tell me all of the same things that Jesus is said to have taught in the New Testament, I wouldn’t discredit any of the message because who says it doesn’t matter; the message is what matters. The fact that you are stuck on the messenger rather than the message is clearcut evidence of your lack of spirituality, rajraj.
If you have an argument against my points here, then let’s hear it. But I can assure you that you aren’t advancing the dim cause that you have by calling me a fagot.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
That’s what separates faith and spirituality from any other aspect of your life; faith exists independent of proof. Faith is not nuclear physics, it’s not math, it’s not archaeology. Proof does not apply here at all. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the definition of faith.[/quote]
FFS this is what I was basically saying from the start, his religious beliefs are based on FAITH (strong belief in something in the absence of proof). That’s my definition of faith.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
There is no way for that to be proven or for it to be proven that He isn’t divine. Your deathgrip on this proof thing is pointless in that respect, and as I said earlier, you cling to this argument because you have no other leg to stand on.
I have never come on here and criticized people for having religious beliefs, only for claiming that their beliefs are based on empirical evidence or “proof”. I think that BrotherChris searches for evidence of God and calls this proof in part because religious people in general are constantly bombarded with demands for proof, with demands for tangible reasons. I suppose I would eventually do the same as well.
[/quote]
Why do I have to prove he isn’t divine? The burden of proof lies on the person who MAKES THE CLAIM. I have proof flying spaghetti monsters live in another galaxy. You can’t prove I’m wrong so therefore it’s a valid claim right? I am criticizing BC for making the claim empirical evidence exists for Jesus’s divinity. THAT IS ALL.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
But what is lost in all of this is this: both of you have strayed from what’s really important here. The Message. I believe in the message of Jesus Christ. I don’t need proof of his divinity to understand the point and the veracity of his message. I try to live my life in accordance with this, to a certain extent. I am not concerned with the messenger delivering the message. Whatever Higher Power it is that exists, that Power has placed inside of me the ability to differentiate from what is right and what is wrong. [/quote]
This has never been the argument why are you bringing this up? I’m not criticizing his beliefs in Jesus just the fact he believes there’s real evidence of his divinity.
I think inhaling all those fumes while cleaning HVAC’s has effected your reading comprehension.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
If a slug were to crawl out of my vegetable garden and up onto my lap as I type this and tell me all of the same things that Jesus is said to have taught in the New Testament, I wouldn’t discredit any of the message because who says it doesn’t matter; the message is what matters. The fact that you are stuck on the messenger rather than the message is clearcut evidence of your lack of spirituality, rajraj. [/quote]
You’re right I am no longer a spiritual person as I once was during my youth. I no longer believe in a spiritual world.
Not all the teachings of Jesus in the bible are positive. I think it’s ridiculous how you pick and choose what to follow and what not to follow. But that’s debate for another time.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
If you have an argument against my points here, then let’s hear it. But I can assure you that you aren’t advancing the dim cause that you have by calling me a fagot.[/quote]
I only called you a faggot because I thought you had me on ignore then chose to argue my posts. I don’t have issue with people disagreeing with me.
lame
Rajraj:
If your point is that faith exists independent of proof, then why didn’t you say it in the first place? If BrotherChris’ argument regarding proof is pointless, why join the fray with comments like “there’s no proof Jesus is divine” or whatever the exact words you used were?
I’ll tell you why: your argument holds no merit, the worthlessness of it has now been exposed to you and you have been forced to backtrack and revise it under the guise of “this is what I was saying from the start”. I laugh at the HVAC comment. I have mentioned ONE time in more than 4000 posts that I used to be an HVAC technician and apparently you place such import on what I say that that one comment stuck with you. And now you’ve resorted to pure Sophistry to embolden your argument. If I wanted to listen to personal attacks passed off as valid arguing points I could just spend all my time in PWI arguing with LifticusMaximus.
Lastly, whenever we talk about anything spiritual or anything related to Jesus, His message is never off-topic. And the fact that you openly admit to not believing in a spiritual world combined with the fact that you fail to grasp the irrelevancy of proof in regards to any sort of deity has seriously discredited anything you have to say from here on out.
You believe that there is no spiritual world, an assumption I already came to several days ago. Fine. Then why are you here? To argue your point that there is no spiritual world? I’ll take a page out of your book and ask what sort of proof there is to support your belief. I have proof that it does exist, you just haven’t seen it.
See what I did there? I stooped down to your level. If BrotherChris is off-base in his assertions, then why even validate them? Why “stoop down” to his level? (BrotherChris: I am NOT saying that you are at some sort of level below the rest of us. In fact, as pretentious as I think it is to say that your belief system is rooted in proof or fact, I don’t blame you for searching for these things in the face of inane arguments like rajraj’s)
Now it’s my turn to be pretentious, and I gotta admit, I am REALLY, REALLY good at it: don’t bother responding to my post, rajraj. You have nothing to bring to the table, aside from Sophistry, revisionism and personal insults (rooted in your obsession with me) so there is no point in you continuing to discuss this with me. My intellect is clearly superior to yours and quite frankly, I’m wasting my time here.
You don’t believe in a spiritual world at all, and the point of this thread wasn’t about whether or not an afterlife exists, but what our thoughts about whatever afterlife it is that those who DO believe one exists are. You have no place in this thread anymore. Vanish.
[quote]critietaeta wrote:
lame[/quote]
Yes, you’re right. It is lame to come into a lame thread and then make it even lamer by pointing it out. It’s like walking up to a big pile of shit, pointing at it and saying “that’s a big pile of shit”, and then walking away. Good. Glad you have a heartbeat and are familiar with the homerow on your keyboard.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Rajraj:
If your point is that faith exists independent of proof, then why didn’t you say it in the first place? If BrotherChris’ argument regarding proof is pointless, why join the fray with comments like “there’s no proof Jesus is divine” or whatever the exact words you used were? [/quote]
Flashgordon stated his belief was based on real evidence so I wrote “It’s annoying as hell when people tell you that your religion isn’t based on real evidence instead of faith.”
That point was challenged so I asked him to provide proof.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I’ll tell you why: your argument holds no merit, the worthlessness of it has now been exposed to you and you have been forced to backtrack and revise it under the guise of “this is what I was saying from the start”. I laugh at the HVAC comment. I have mentioned ONE time in more than 4000 posts that I used to be an HVAC technician and apparently you place such import on what I say that that one comment stuck with you. And now you’ve resorted to pure Sophistry to embolden your argument. If I wanted to listen to personal attacks passed off as valid arguing points I could just spend all my time in PWI arguing with LifticusMaximus. [/quote]
I check GAL regularly. It’s not important to me I just thought it was a funny way to insult you. I have made valid arguments you have just chosen to ignore them.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Lastly, whenever we talk about anything spiritual or anything related to Jesus, His message is never off-topic. And the fact that you openly admit to not believing in a spiritual world combined with the fact that you fail to grasp the irrelevancy of proof in regards to any sort of deity has seriously discredited anything you have to say from here on out.
You believe that there is no spiritual world, an assumption I already came to several days ago. Fine. Then why are you here? To argue your point that there is no spiritual world? I’ll take a page out of your book and ask what sort of proof there is to support your belief. I have proof that it does exist, you just haven’t seen it. [/quote]
I’m here for my own enjoyment - that’s why I post in GAL. More specifically I’m in this thread because of the initial statements flashgordon made.
You see you keep missing things. Brother Chris started with the “you just haven’t seen it” argument.
I’m not claiming I have proof the spiritual world doesn’t exist. That’s just my personal belief.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
See what I did there? I stooped down to your level. If BrotherChris is off-base in his assertions, then why even validate them? Why “stoop down” to his level? (BrotherChris: I am NOT saying that you are at some sort of level below the rest of us. In fact, as pretentious as I think it is to say that your belief system is rooted in proof or fact, I don’t blame you for searching for these things in the face of inane arguments like rajraj’s)
Now it’s my turn to be pretentious, and I gotta admit, I am REALLY, REALLY good at it: don’t bother responding to my post, rajraj. You have nothing to bring to the table, aside from Sophistry, revisionism and personal insults (rooted in your obsession with me) so there is no point in you continuing to discuss this with me. My intellect is clearly superior to yours and quite frankly, I’m wasting my time here.
You don’t believe in a spiritual world at all, and the point of this thread wasn’t about whether or not an afterlife exists, but what our thoughts about whatever afterlife it is that those who DO believe one exists are. You have no place in this thread anymore. Vanish. [/quote]
I only posted when someone claimed they have evidence of Jesus Christ’s divinity, but apparently you can’t comprehend that. Everyone has the right to their beliefs. I just posted to point out that real evidence of Jesus’s divinity does not exist.
EDIT: I originally wrote "^^^ It’s just annoying as hell when someone tells people their religion is based on real evidence instead of faith. "
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Both of you are being absolutely ridiculous.
Brother Chris: If someone were to say to you that they have seen proof that God does not exist, or that perhaps multiple gods exist as in Hinduism or even in ancient Greece, you’d chalk it up to disillusionment of some kind. If someone claimed to have some sort of vision of this, or to have spoken to them or something along those lines, you’d call them confused or delusional. It is beyond egotistical and pretentious to sit here and say that you have seen proof of something as mysterious and powerful as ANY god.
My point this entire time is that it is NOT faith if you have seen “proof” of God’s existence. If God exists and you have seen the proof, you really don’t have much of a choice regarding your beliefs. You can reject Him or you can accept Him, there is no other choice. So if you follow Him, that isn’t faith. If God exists, then Heaven must also exist, and if we know that it DOES exist, how can our actions be motivated by anything else but our selfish need to be closer to Him?
If you act the exact same way, but you can acknowledge that He may not exist, that you may be wrong, THAT is faith. I’m sorry BrotherChris, but you simply don’t have faith by definition of the word. And this is much more than just an argument about semantics.
Rajraj: You’re just a plain idiot. Demanding proof of the existence of something that requires no proof is pointless and it’s a cheap argument. It’s dipshits like you who lead devout people like BrotherChris to start searching for proof of God’s existence in everything they do.
You know that there is no way to prove that God exists, so for you to rest your entire argument on that basis reveals the utter lack of knowledge you have about spirituality in general. You cannot prove that God does NOT exist, so you’ve really just boxed yourself into a little corner. This question of existence is your only refuge since you clearly know nothing about religion or faith.[/quote]
FWIW, this post and the following were two of the best posts I’ve seen from you on here, save for the posts about throat-slitting, etc.
I’ve always found the concept of an afterlife interesting, especially the execution. Assuming God in his infinite power has a place where we could experience an Afterlife with all of our worldly faculties, I contend that an eternal afterlife would get quite boring. I suppose an infinite amount of time would be satisfactory if we had an infinite amount of possibiities, but otherwise you’d necessarily grow weary of the Afterlife.
Now, if we can’t take these worldly attributes with us, then what constitutes the afterlife and what constitutes ourselves in this afterlife? Are we just spirit? If so, which part of us is this spirit? Do we have memories (stored in our human brain), preferences, our same personality? I suppose you could contend that “we” retain these characteristics because they are really our true self and this is just how God has rooted us to the natural world, etc.
Perhaps the afterlife we seek is an effect of our personal shortcomings, and the buddhist idea of abolishing the ego and detaching the “true self” from these materials artifacts such as personality, memories etc. is the true goal. I think an eternal love sesh is just a bit silly and I’m not really sure why it’s what people want so badly.
That said, I’d certainly be willing to experience the afterlife until I got sick of it, though I hope that I live my life to the point that when I’m about to die I’m comfortable with the impending nothingness.
Hey, maybe if we let this thread die, it will come back and tell us what the afterlife is all about.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Rajraj:
If your point is that faith exists independent of proof, then why didn’t you say it in the first place? If BrotherChris’ argument regarding proof is pointless, why join the fray with comments like “there’s no proof Jesus is divine” or whatever the exact words you used were? [/quote]
Flashgordon stated his belief was based on real evidence so I wrote “It’s annoying as hell when people tell you that your religion isn’t based on real evidence instead of faith.”
That point was challenged so I asked him to provide proof.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I’ll tell you why: your argument holds no merit, the worthlessness of it has now been exposed to you and you have been forced to backtrack and revise it under the guise of “this is what I was saying from the start”. I laugh at the HVAC comment. I have mentioned ONE time in more than 4000 posts that I used to be an HVAC technician and apparently you place such import on what I say that that one comment stuck with you. And now you’ve resorted to pure Sophistry to embolden your argument. If I wanted to listen to personal attacks passed off as valid arguing points I could just spend all my time in PWI arguing with LifticusMaximus. [/quote]
I check GAL regularly. It’s not important to me I just thought it was a funny way to insult you. I have made valid arguments you have just chosen to ignore them.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Lastly, whenever we talk about anything spiritual or anything related to Jesus, His message is never off-topic. And the fact that you openly admit to not believing in a spiritual world combined with the fact that you fail to grasp the irrelevancy of proof in regards to any sort of deity has seriously discredited anything you have to say from here on out.
You believe that there is no spiritual world, an assumption I already came to several days ago. Fine. Then why are you here? To argue your point that there is no spiritual world? I’ll take a page out of your book and ask what sort of proof there is to support your belief. I have proof that it does exist, you just haven’t seen it. [/quote]
I’m here for my own enjoyment - that’s why I post in GAL. More specifically I’m in this thread because of the initial statements flashgordon made.
You see you keep missing things. Brother Chris started with the “you just haven’t seen it” argument.
I’m not claiming I have proof the spiritual world doesn’t exist. That’s just my personal belief.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
See what I did there? I stooped down to your level. If BrotherChris is off-base in his assertions, then why even validate them? Why “stoop down” to his level? (BrotherChris: I am NOT saying that you are at some sort of level below the rest of us. In fact, as pretentious as I think it is to say that your belief system is rooted in proof or fact, I don’t blame you for searching for these things in the face of inane arguments like rajraj’s)
Now it’s my turn to be pretentious, and I gotta admit, I am REALLY, REALLY good at it: don’t bother responding to my post, rajraj. You have nothing to bring to the table, aside from Sophistry, revisionism and personal insults (rooted in your obsession with me) so there is no point in you continuing to discuss this with me. My intellect is clearly superior to yours and quite frankly, I’m wasting my time here.
You don’t believe in a spiritual world at all, and the point of this thread wasn’t about whether or not an afterlife exists, but what our thoughts about whatever afterlife it is that those who DO believe one exists are. You have no place in this thread anymore. Vanish. [/quote]
I only posted when someone claimed they have evidence of Jesus Christ’s divinity, but apparently you can’t comprehend that. Everyone has the right to their beliefs. I just posted to point out that real evidence of Jesus’s divinity does not exist.
[/quote]
Ok, mabye I worded what I said wrong and you misunderstood. I do not have evidence for every part of my faith.
But, I do have enough evidence of the existence of Jesus and his death. Sorry if you picked me up wrong, I am NOT saying I have what you would call evidence for Jesus’ divinity.
By the way, I only looked into evidence for Jesus after I became a christian, not the other way round. I had already had enough off what I would call “signs” that pointed me to him.
Anyway, I hope some off you actually take the time to read the bible with an open mind and hopefully see it the way I see it.
God bless