The Abortion Thread

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1081

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
tell me how I am arguing the subject incorrectly.[/quote]

The explotation of children that more likely than not cannot understand the words put next to their faces for one.

You can make you point without exploiting others.

Secondly, I already answered that in the quote you posted.

No you don’t.

Raj pointed out you aren’t consistant. If data supports your position it is authority, if it doesn’t, anecdote is authority.

How the fuck are people supposed to have a conversation when you are like that?

yes, you refuse. Because, like I just pointed out, if you did you would have to admit you are inconsistant. Which really isn’t the end of the world, nor does it make your stance wrong. It just means you are hard to have a debate with.

Just because you are wrong doesn’t mean the people against you are correct.

But rather than admit that, you go on and on parroting the same shit over and over.

You could also lay off the apeals to emotion, but that won’t happen, because like 99% of the pictures and “articles” you post would go away.

How about talking about the same things the people you are quoting are, rather than calling them a nazi?

1082

Personally meet some people with DS before you speculate on their self worth.

[quote]orion wrote: It is bound to have some, but if you are happy with yourself and your environment is tiptoing around you, you are most likely retarded or criminally insane and prone to violent outbursts.

And I dont even mean that in a bad way, but what you celebrate I attribute to pity or fear.
[/quote]

1083

pat is welcome to tell me that if he would like. I will not be taking your word for it, no offense.

1084

So now the dictionary defines life?

1085

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Allowing or accepting abortion is synonymous with supporting abortion. Remember the days of slavery and segregation? “He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetuate it.” â?? Martin Luther King, Jr.

[/quote]

I don’t think it is evil at that stage of development so his quote is irrelevant. Much the same as a Buddhist trying to tell you that you were evil for stepping on a bug.

1086

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
I posted the pictures because many people who are pro-death use the argument that the unborn are NOT human. You are using the same logic, ‘the unborn are not human and can be justly slaughtered.’ Please tell me if I am wrong about your stance.

[/quote]

According to Pat everyone is pro-death, even you.[/quote]

Really? Show me where I even remotely said anything close?

That’s the sound of losing sorely…geez.

1087

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Personally meet some people with DS before you speculate on their self worth.

[quote]orion wrote: It is bound to have some, but if you are happy with yourself and your environment is tiptoing around you, you are most likely retarded or criminally insane and prone to violent outbursts.

And I dont even mean that in a bad way, but what you celebrate I attribute to pity or fear.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I do not speculate what their self worth might be.

I postulate that it is based on questionable foundations.

1088

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

I don’t have to try… You’re the one all frazzled and hung up on labels and terminology, in order to sound less bad. Writing pages of tortured logic to support a phony label. It doesn’t bother me, not one bit… Whether you call me pro-life or anti-abortion or whatever, doesn’t actually matter. You can call me ‘Sally’ for all I care.

You’re pro-abortion, act like a man and own it.[/quote]

If you’ll remember, I had non-semantic based arguments too, you just stopped responding to them and instead focused on this.

I agree to your terms. I’ll be pro-abortion and you’ll be anti-freedom.

Now can we continue, Sally? [/quote]

Prove I am anti-freedom.[/quote]

Oh for fuck sakes…

You’re not anti-freedom. At least, you’re no more anti-freedom than I am pro-abortion. I’m pro-abortion to the extent that there are cases where I support abortion. You are anti-freedom to the extent that there are cases where you do not support free choice.

More often than not, I am anti-abortion, but I am always for the choice, so pro-choice is the more appropriate term. More often than not, you are pro-freedom, but you are always against abortion (savour for when the mother’s life is at risk), so anti-abortion is the more appropriate choice. I’d even concede that pro-life is a more appropriate choice than anti-freedom, so whichever rules you’re willing to play by, I’ll agree to them, but I won’t agree to a double-standard, especially one against my own position.

Hell, even if you don’t agree with my reasoning, it’s a matter of basic respect for your opponent’s position. You want to go by a particular term? Fine, so do I and I’ll agree to your’s if you agree to mine. You don’t think the term “pro-choice” is accurate? Guess what? I don’t think “pro-life” is accurate, but it doesn’t fucking matter. If you want to be petty, fine, I’ll match your ‘pettiness’ and raise you ‘basic logic’. If you want to actually debate the issues, great! Grow up and let’s move on then.

It’s your choice, but make it quick because I’m out of patience. [/quote]

Ok, it’s settled, I am not anti-freedom and you are pro-abortion. No amount of retarded reasoning is going to change that fact.
You already conceded that ‘abortion is obviously murder’, that’s all I am interested in establishing. The rest takes care of itself. If it’s murder than it should be illegal like murder is.

You can come and go as you please, I don’t really give a shit if you are out of patience or not.[/quote]

That’s not what I said I’d settle on at all. I have no clue how you got to that conclusion.

If I am pro-abortion, you are anti-freedom. If I am pro-choice, you are anti-abortion (or pro-life, if you must be called that). No amount of retarded reasoning is going to change that fact, and unlike you I actually have reasoning for this instead of just assertions.

Do you concede that murder in self-defence is still killing? Then I guess that should be illegal too… Oh wait that’s stupid the argument is over exceptions and not the act itself. I guess I should know better than to assume your brand of logic has any sort of consistency to it. [/quote]

You are for abortion therefore you are pro-abortion. I am all for freedom, therefore I am pro-freedom, not anti-freedom.
You’re basis that killing is a tenet of freedom is totally unfounded. You just really want to call names… I can say your a nimrod. Prove your not a nimrod.[/quote]

More senseless asserting.

Your first sentence is wrong. I am not “for” abortion and in fact in most most pregnancies I am against it. I am for the choice. I know you understand the difference and that’s exactly why you’re pushing “pro-abortion” so hard, but you don’t want to play by your own rules.

You’ve said it yourself, you don’t care what I call you. I guess that was all talk, because you sure backed the hell out of that quickly.

Also, I have no problem being called nimrod. Do you even know what nimrod means? Maybe you need to read the bible more. Hmm?[/quote]

Ok, nimrod.

1089

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So now the dictionary defines life?

[/quote]

You said child, not life, and yes it even defines life but that’s besides the point. Your words are a moving target which is why nobody can debate you. But debating is not even your goal, just spreading propaganda which does not require consistency.

1090

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
I posted the pictures because many people who are pro-death use the argument that the unborn are NOT human. You are using the same logic, ‘the unborn are not human and can be justly slaughtered.’ Please tell me if I am wrong about your stance.

[/quote]

According to Pat everyone is pro-death, even you.[/quote]

Really? Show me where I even remotely said anything close?

That’s the sound of losing sorely…geez. [/quote]

By not supporting the existence of death you are going against nature and God.

1091

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Your words are a moving target which is why nobody can debate you. But debating is not even your goal, [/quote]

LOL

This

1092

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

Also, I have no problem being called nimrod. Do you even know what nimrod means? Maybe you need to read the bible more. Hmm?[/quote]

So what? what does that have anything to do with its modern interpretation?

For instance, do you have any idea what nigger literally means? It simply means black in Latin. That doesn’t make it any less offensive.

1093

I also find KD’s views on human sexuality quite curious.

Yes, the answer is “self restraint”

1094

[quote]therajraj wrote:
I also find KD’s views on human sexuality quite curious.

Yes, the answer is “self restraint”[/quote]

I thought it was funny when Brother Chris was advocating NFP then later mentioned he had 2 children when he wasn’t ready for them. Yep NFP works really well.

1095

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
How about you travel on down to Chile and then you will realize that you can’t source wiki as anything credible. [/quote]

You’re right! I’m sure you’ve spoken to hundreds of thousands of Chilean women about abortion specifically. A lone poster on T-Nation like yourself would surely have the answers. Besides, did you even look at the sources at the bottom of page? Those seem pretty legit.

I’m glad you didn’t spend time to attempt to pick apart my post. What if I made grand generalizations about Afghans and Haitians? Would you believe me? If not I’d just tell you to travel there!

Just keep posting your tear-jerker stories and side-stepping other people’s legitimate comments. Lame argument, dude.

EDIT: All insults aside, Kneedragger, this is what happened. You asked us to please cite what problems exist in Chile with Abortion being illegal. I provided several in my post, plus a link to a document that contained many sources. You dismissed it because you’ve traveled to Chile. Terrible argument.

1096

[quote]pat wrote:

Ok, nimrod.[/quote]

You know, I used to think you were actually a good debtor who intentionally used obfuscation tactics to get yourself out of any pinch, but now I’m coming to understand that obfuscation is all you have and when pressed on an issue you inevitably come up short.

Disappointing.

1097

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

Also, I have no problem being called nimrod. Do you even know what nimrod means? Maybe you need to read the bible more. Hmm?[/quote]

So what? what does that have anything to do with its modern interpretation?

For instance, do you have any idea what nigger literally means? It simply means black in Latin. That doesn’t make it any less offensive. [/quote]

Using “nimrod” to mean “dull-witted” is an American colloquialism. People who didn’t receive their education from watching Bugs Bunny cartoons know better.

I know what pat was trying to say, but I also know that pat considers himself a bible-buff and has repeatedly accused me of having never read the bible, going on little more than the fact that I don’t agree with him (anyone who doesn’t agree with him is either stupid or lying about reading the bible, you see…), so it’s amusing to see him embarrass himself like this.

Maybe if he spent more time reading his beloved bible instead of watching cartoons, things like this wouldn’t happen to him.

1098

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Find where I changed my position on life, please. Then cite the thread. If you can find my changing of position on abortion/life then I will leave this topic forever. Interesting, how your stance on the state and yet you believe it should fund current programs. Know this tigger, I agree the death penalty is a serious topic, a seriously bad and wrong choice. Glad we agree about killing another human. The problem then becomes this; if the unborn are NOT human and alive from the very moment of conception then what are they?

edited

[quote]TigerTime wrote: It always irks me when people make arguments like this.

The death penalty is a serious and permanent thing. If KD is only changing his mind on the topic to suit his own personal vendeta, then he’s just as wrong as he was before he changed his mind. He’s still in the mindset that his personal preferences should be coercively enforced upon and funded by the masses through the state.

Having someone agree with you means nothing if essentially all they’re doing is re-directing their ‘stupid’ at someone else. Raise your standards a bit. [/quote]
[/quote]

… What?

1099

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Ok, nimrod.[/quote]

You know, I used to think you were actually a good debtor who intentionally used obfuscation tactics to get yourself out of any pinch, but now I’m coming to understand that obfuscation is all you have and when pressed on an issue you inevitably come up short.

Disappointing. [/quote]

Oh damn, I am hurt. And you used a

1100

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Ok, nimrod.[/quote]

You know, I used to think you were actually a good debtor who intentionally used obfuscation tactics to get yourself out of any pinch, but now I’m coming to understand that obfuscation is all you have and when pressed on an issue you inevitably come up short.

Disappointing. [/quote]

Oh damn, I am hurt. And you used a big word an everything.

There’s nothing left to debate. I made the argument that abortion is murder, you conceded, but despite that fact your think it is a fine practice that must go on. Conceding it’s murder is all I need. Most folks concede that murder is a crime that should be illegal, I don’t feel particularly obliged to educate you on ethics, since you obviously have a rather large hill to climb from where you stand on the matter. You keep trying to reinvent the wheel, the fucking thing is already round.

At this point you just want to bicker for bickering’s sake.

All I can do is offer you some cheese to go with your whine…

As far as debating is concerned you have A LOT to learn. You’re condemnation of my debating skills is about as meaningful as telling me I am a terrible kazoo player. I think I’ll survive it.