[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:I don’t disagree. Rights are granted by the state and can be easily taken away. Some of us consider god nothing more than a concept. You may as well quote star wars, it would be equally as effective.[/quote]You will not be thrilled to learn that as He sustains your existence every millisecond God is entirely unimpressed with what you consider about anything.
[/quote]
Because in your infinite hubris, you can claim what God thinks.
[quote]Makavali wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:[quote]therajraj wrote:I don’t disagree. Rights are granted by the state and can be easily taken away. Some of us consider god nothing more than a concept. You may as well quote star wars, it would be equally as effective.[/quote]You will not be thrilled to learn that as He sustains your existence every millisecond God is entirely unimpressed with what you consider about anything.
[/quote]Because in your infinite hubris, you can claim what God thinks.[/quote]Actually in my adoring humble surrender I let HIM tell ME what He thinks. He doesn’t care what I think either. I am most exceedingly joyful that’s the case. . He think’s I’m a high criminal guilty of a multitude of capital offenses against His holy name. Crimes for which eternal death is the only appropriate sentence.
He further thinks that He has himself provided payment for that sentence in the person of His Son who now lives having defeated my death in His life. He thinks if I trust my life to His, He will not only let me live, but adopt me into His royal family as His son. He also thinks I should be grateful. He thinks you should do the same. In fact He tells me He’s pretty darn sure about it. I think He’s right.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Assuming abortion is just as evil and morally wrong as walking up to a stranger and shooting them in the head, I’ve yet to hear a good reason why it needs to be made illegal.[/quote]
'Cause it’s murder, that’s why. Not hard.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
There is no right to life.
In fact, through wording of the law, the government makes it clear fetuses under 20 weeks do not have a right to life.
[/quote]
But you admit it’s murder then, but you think it’s ok because the government says so?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Whether a right exists or not has no bearing on how moral abortion is[/quote]
So back to moral relativism we go? Right and wrong is dictated by acceptance and intrinsically there is no ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘right’ or ‘wrong’? That works great so long as it doesn’t happen to you. Betting you’d think it’s wrong if you or someone you loved was harmed by a person with a relativists point of view. But since the perpetrator felt it was ok, You’ll have to concede that it was ok. This is why the shit doesn’t work, it breaks down not only in theory but in fact as well. It’s a flimsy house of cards.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I don’t disagree. Rights are granted by the state and can be easily taken away.
Some of us consider god nothing more than a concept. You may as well quote star wars, it would be equally as effective.
[/quote]
I would agree religion has little to do with this topic. However, what you consider and what actually is, are two things not one. The inability to see things as they are is a problem with the seer.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Assuming abortion is just as evil and morally wrong as walking up to a stranger and shooting them in the head, I’ve yet to hear a good reason why it needs to be made illegal.[/quote]
'Cause it’s murder, that’s why. Not hard.[/quote]
Wrong, obviously you didn’t understand the question.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
He doesn’t care what I think either.
[/quote]
Incorrect and heresy. Repent and believe.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Assuming abortion is just as evil and morally wrong as walking up to a stranger and shooting them in the head, I’ve yet to hear a good reason why it needs to be made illegal.[/quote]
'Cause it’s murder, that’s why. Not hard.[/quote]
Wrong, obviously you didn’t understand the question.[/quote]
So your questioning why murder is illegal? Interesting.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Assuming abortion is just as evil and morally wrong as walking up to a stranger and shooting them in the head, I’ve yet to hear a good reason why it needs to be made illegal.[/quote]
'Cause it’s murder, that’s why. Not hard.[/quote]
Wrong, obviously you didn’t understand the question.[/quote]
So your questioning why murder is illegal? Interesting. [/quote]
I already know why murder is illegal and it has good reasons.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Might as well stop the discussion if you need non secular arguments to make your point[/quote]
Oh wait so as long as the arguments stem from your world view and not others makes them valid?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Assuming abortion is just as evil and morally wrong as walking up to a stranger and shooting them in the head, I’ve yet to hear a good reason why it needs to be made illegal.[/quote]
'Cause it’s murder, that’s why. Not hard.[/quote]
Wrong, obviously you didn’t understand the question.[/quote]
So your questioning why murder is illegal? Interesting. [/quote]
I already know why murder is illegal and it has good reasons.[/quote]
Well then why is it illegal? What are the reasons?
You just likened abortion to shooting somebody in the head, so if it’s the same then why should one be legal and the other not?
[quote]pat wrote:
if it’s the same then why should one be legal and the other not?[/quote]
I don’t think they are the same, I said if they were morally equivalent, this is different than legally equivalent. If you want an answer to your question its easy…
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
if it’s the same then why should one be legal and the other not?[/quote]
I don’t think they are the same, I said if they were morally equivalent, this is different than legally equivalent. If you want an answer to your question its easy…
Then what’s your point? That they are morally equivalent? Ok. That they have different legal standing standings? Well, yeah. That’s why there’s a pro-life movement, after all. That’s OUR point. There’s something morally equivalent to taking an inncoent human life (since it does), as murder also accomplishes. Therefore, it should be illegal.
Enslaving an African is morally equivalent to enslaving a European. If the legal standards were different for the European and African, we’d change it. Abolition. The pro-life movement is the new Abolition movement.
So far.
and then…
Wait. What?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
if it’s the same then why should one be legal and the other not?[/quote]
I don’t think they are the same, I said if they were morally equivalent, this is different than legally equivalent. If you want an answer to your question its easy…
So the laws of a nation determine whats right and whats wrong? And if so then what about country’s that think differently? Are they wrong? Why? For that matter some states allow the death penalty and some don’t. Which states are right? Some states allow gay marriage and some don’t. Which states are right?
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Might as well stop the discussion if you need non secular arguments to make your point[/quote]
Oh wait so as long as the arguments stem from your world view and not others makes them valid?[/quote]
Who are you trying to convince in this thread? Christians or non-Christians?
Or are you simply here to “win” the argument?
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
if it’s the same then why should one be legal and the other not?[/quote]
I don’t think they are the same, I said if they were morally equivalent, this is different than legally equivalent. If you want an answer to your question its easy…
So the laws of a nation determine whats right and whats wrong? And if so then what about country’s that think differently? Are they wrong? Why? For that matter some states allow the death penalty and some don’t. Which states are right? Some states allow gay marriage and some don’t. Which states are right?[/quote]
The laws of a nation should certainly not determine what is right and wrong. And what is right and wrong should not determine the laws.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote] Orion: As you should be-
You are just too damn sure when something rather nebulous like “human life” changes into “person”.
And, in the case of driving licenses, alcohol consumption, consensual sex with adults and whatnot we must deal with the desperate attempt to define a cutoff point for something that is essentially a biological continuum.
In a lot of other areas you would sign that in a heartbeat.
In this, you dont, just because you are more attached to it than most.[/quote]
This was in response to my pointing out that a death always occurs during an abortion. Well, except in rare cases where the victim survives (and grows up) to tell others how close they came to death. Anyways, your response is interesting as you don’t actually challenge my point. That a death does indeed occur. In fact, you concede the presence of an individual human life. Naturally, of course. It is an individual organism, human in this case, that we’re speaking of. I commend you for facing it for what it is.
Further, you admit that the embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, teen, adult, and elderly Orion are the exact same individual organism. That is, the exact same human life. No switch-a-roos. No placeholder organism, until shazam!, it’s switched out for Orion’s entry into the world. One human life. On it’s own biological continuum (same individual, different stages). Bravo. Now, do what you know is right in your heart, knowing (as you’ve shown) what abortion actually accomplishes. Orion, go pro-life. [/quote]
No, because the legal right to drive is not something you are magically granted with your conception, nor can you smoke, drink, fuck, whatever.
You get this rights, peu a peu, as you grow up .
I dont see how the right to life is fundamentally different. [/quote]
Because it is inalienable…not given by man.[/quote]
From what point on?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
if it’s the same then why should one be legal and the other not?[/quote]
I don’t think they are the same, I said if they were morally equivalent, this is different than legally equivalent. If you want an answer to your question its easy…
You did not answer the question.