The single fertilized egg splits and that makes the two fertilized eggs/embryos no longer human?
Pretty sure this happens when identical twins are formed. The embryos never lose their humanity. 46 chromosomes throughout the whole event, always completely human.
Are the pro life arguments you got still every child should be born even if mom dies or is raped? And the typical pro life person whoâs also one of those âconservativesâ thatâs taxed enough already and doesnât want to support education or health care?
Knowing that you will never be in a position to die if carrying a child to term or carry your rapists baby to term are you sure youâre the one who should be doling out advice?
Do you read the Bible as a pro life book? Doesnât seem like God minds a little good old fashioned killing. Spare me the âoh we canât question God as we are but men and he is beyond usâ if you would.
And the favorite song is still âitâs my bible and youâll do want I wanna, do what I wanna.â ?
Not really. If weâre talking about oral contraceptives, IUDs, or injections, it inhibits implantation. Itâs not terminating any conjunction of sperm and egg. It is stopping the sperm from conjoining with the egg in the first place.
In essence, its pausing further life from continuing, but it is not causing anything to die.
Let me get this straight; you want to keep abortion legal through all nine months of pregnancy for every woman and you are using a group that measures so small the number is literally a quarter of a quarter percent of the total number of elective abortions per year?
Please look-up the number of women who are given a terminal pregnancy diagnosis and then they decide to keep the babies anyway. Sure doctors can be right but they are very wrong too.
Please stop placing words/ideas in my mouth. The Bible is something I never use to fight the pro-LIFE debate. You just proved my point as to why, the GOD of the Old Testament is portrayed very differently in the New Testament. But see, you donât understand that and instead you want to âtrap me.â
planetcybertron - you are right to a certain point but you arenât completing the thought. ALL contraceptives (oral, IUDs, injections, etc.,) stop the embryo from implanting. They donât stop an embryo from being created. The only form of birth control that doesnât function in this way are the barriers like condoms and diaphragms. Those barriers keep the egg and sperm separate.
If contraceptives kept the spermatozoa and eggs separate, why does it regularly fail?
Iâd appreciate if you spoke to me in a sense of trying to understand me. Not trying to be right. Just because I didnât agree with you doesnât mean you have to say I didnât âcomplete my thoughtâ.
They stop the sperm from penetrating the egg. The hormones from most oral contraceptives and injections, stop ovulation.
Thereâs quite a few reasons.
And I wouldnât say contraceptives regularly fail. Thereâs plenty of individuals across the globe who have had prolonged success using contraceptives. But since you and I arenât monitoring millions of individuals, every second of their day, why even make such broad confirmation biased statements like that?
Thereâs plenty of individuals who will say theyâre taking their birth control regularly, when they werenât. Evidence being: A child. But what does that even matter? Theyâre their own person.
My issue, is that youâre describing the function of oral contraceptives incorrectly. And Iâm not here to bash you, but in the case someone stumbles across this section with questions, itâs at least necessary for them to know oral contraceptives actually works.
planetcybertron - There was no trying on my part in wanting to attack you or where you are coming from. Maybe itâs habit from having these conversations on these boards or with my family or any of the other places that I do talk with people. Please accept my apologies because that was never my intention. Nor will it ever be the case.
If the women taking birth-control were on birth-control long term and it stopped the ovulation event, she would enter menopause much, much later than her friend who was never on any birth-control. However that is not reality.
Your number one reason doesnât apply across the board to all contraceptives. Only oral contraceptives have to be taken at the same time, every day. Depo-Provera is a shot given every three or four months (I donât recall) so consistency is therefore moot.
Iâm going to think girls are less emotional than âI feel fat so I donât want to take my oral contraceptive, but I will go sleep with that guy down the block because he smiled at me.â Sorry man, I give women more credit than that.
Number three, a doctor will give her another contraceptive. Plus I have never heard of a girl being allergic to hormonal birth-control. Iâm sure it can happen but it has to be pretty rare.
The doctor would be culpable if this were to every happen.
Number five, please provide a large sample number of women who have had âHormonal difficulties, which can render birth control ineffective.â Please provide a source, any source.
How many surgical abortions take place every day in America alone? Those abortions take place because birth-control fails. Donât believe me? Ask the women as they walk into the death chambers.
Why is birth-control needed? If you donât want to be a parent, donât have sex. It really isnât complicated.
Why would any one know someone else is on any birth-control?
[quote=âplanetcybertron, post:87, topic:214572â]
Thereâs quite a few reasons.
And I wouldnât say contraceptives regularly fail. Thereâs plenty of individuals across the globe who have had prolonged success using contraceptivesâŠ[/quote]
edit - trying to fix above paragraph, but I gave up and failed.
Did I say what you said? Whatâs your cutoff for allowing women to choose? We might have common ground.
Itâs the origins of most of those and given your long history of linking religious propaganda Iâd be surprised if it wasnât for you. But youâre smart enough to know the Bible ainât much of a reason for taking away womenâs reproductive rights.
Itâs very common it seems for the people who push pro-life the most to also be the people who donât want any type of systems to help those people. They want every baby to born but pay for food, school, healthcare for that baby? Fat chance. If this isnât you thatâs cool. They are also typically the type of âpro lifeâ people who say things like we should bomb Iran and turn it into a parking lot but thatâs another discussion.
Ok. So youâre saying you are fine with women getting information about their bodies and then making their own decisions even if that is counter to what other people want/suggest?
Sweet we are completely in agreement. Women should be allowed to make decisions for themselves. See that didnât take long.
The simple fact kneedragger states a lie about science, either deliberately or because he is ignorant, tells you that arguing with him about abortion will go nowhere.
What?
And I didnât say that it applies to all contraceptives. I was giving a few reasons why they could fail. Concerning the ones taken orally.
Youâd be surprised. Thereâs plenty of women who will refuse oral contraceptives if they suspect it will make them gain weight.
And It would be fair if you didnât hypothetically sum up a femaleâs line of thought so simplistically because issues like these are filled to the brim with grey area. I listed weight gain as a reason because itâs a valid reason.
And I wouldnât dare sum up someoneâs reason to engage in intercourse, while also dismissing their own concern for how they look. So when you say stuff like this:
Youâre ignoring the very real aspect of MILLIONS of young girls who are very concerned with the way they look. So much so, that they are willing to pass up taking a birth control alternative, if it means them not gaining weight. And you can âgive women more credit than thatâ by realizing that aspect if VERY real for people.
Itâs about as rare enough for there to be a need for a side effect disclaimer at he end of various birth control commercials.
Why do I even have to do that? Why do you even need that? I canât provide a large sample number because I wasnât giving that reason under the premise that something like that happens on a large scale. I gave it as a reason because it can be a reason however small or large of a reason. Does a âsample numberâ add any more weight to the fact that this can happen to individuals?
But things like inflammation and digestion issues can be reasons for birth control failure. And when I say that, Iâm using that in conjunction with hormonal issues, since food choices, and how much of their contents that can be absorbed do have hormonal effects. Or things concerning prostaglandin production, or issues concerning that can have an impact as well.
Itâs not that complicated. And my own personal beliefs are on par with what you said, but that DOES NOT give you, neither I, the right to say âthen donât have sex.â Itâs not about how complicated stuff is. Itâs about realizing that weâre all human, and we are going to do things that have outcomes. Sex has an outcome of a child. Yes. Obviously. So in response to that, birth control has been created and manufactured. But what good is it to judge that?
Yes. For the Depo Shot. What are you trying to get at by saying that? That Iâm saying consistency is a reason for the Depo shot not being effective? Thatâs not what I was saying, and I was using consistency as a reason for the oral contraceptives.
I donât care to know. I donât care to what someoneâs reason was. Iâm under the assumption you arenât aware that Iâm a woman. And these âdeath chambersâ are clinics. And again, Iâm not even going to try to paint a picture of what a woman could possibly be thinking while she finds herself in such a place. I donât ask. And I didnât ask when I found myself accompanying a friend to such a clinic a while back. I just hugged her, and hugged her some more, and kept hugging her, instead of bringing up the fact that her birth control option didnât fucking work.
Believe me, Iâm not actively trying to argue, but to just share viewpoints. Only reason I felt a need to comment was because I felt it would be a Good basis if the other user understood how oral contraceptive work, as I felt he generally didnât/didnât understand.
Some of you must be new. Kneedragger is mentally ill.
Heâs mentally unstable. It wonât matter what you say.
Iâve Lurked in this thread a few times. Up until now I never posted for fear of everything just going to shit.
I love these type of arguments because the stupidity is mind boggling. Why is obesity an issue? It isnât complicated only eat good foods. Why does divorce happen? It isnât complicated love your spouse. Why does war happen? It isnât complicated treat other people well. Why do people break the law? It isnât complicated donât break it.
Itâs such a simplistic worthless view. Itâs like do you want to talk about issues that stem from how humans behave and how to solve them or do we just want to say âwell people shouldnât be doing thatâ
No, this is not how it works. One fertilized egg with 23 chromosomes, splits into two fertilized eggs with 46 chromosomes.
Additionally, I am not arguing that this isnât human in origin. I was making a point against your 5th point, which was that they are individual beings.
Do you concede that being two things is not a trait of an individual being? If so, your 5th point is invalid. Have you reconsidered your position?
HOL UP
Number 82 you insinuated that âI believe every child should be born no matter what.â You could have asked me but you are trying to âwinâ an argument by appealing to shock value and/or emotions. Sorry dude, you are not slick enough to dupe me ; )
See H there have been a few ladies that I have talked to and read about who were raped and then became pregnant. It is a tiny, tiny number; a quarter of a quarter percent of the total number every year. That crunches out to an abortion every thirty seconds, or over 1.058 million abortions every year, or just shy of three thousand every day. These numbers donât include statistics from states like New York or California. But using those numbers we do have, there were roughly one-hundred and six ladies who were pregnant after a rape. But you are trying to argue abortion through emotion because if you got a girl pregnant would you man up and be a father to the child?
Come on H, find one single post where I used my faith to support my pro-LIFE position. If you find one single post, Iâll give you a thousand dollars. If you doubt me, find the post and then call me a liar if I never give you the money. Previously I may have mentioned my faith, but I donât use it to defend my pro-LIFE position. Now Iâm repeating myself ; )
Where is your evidence for your claim? Or is this another emotional appeal?
Of course more information is a GOOD thing. The best idea to me, show a mom a sonogram of her baby. Would you support that idea?
Each and every person has the right to their own bodies, of course there is no arguments there. Does a mom going in for an abortion have four or more arms, four or more legs, four or more feet, two or more hearts, two or more brains, etc.,? So an abortion doesnât effect just her own body?
[quote=âH_factor, post:89, topic:214572â]Sweet we are completely in agreement. Women should be allowed to make decisions for themselves. See that didnât take long.
[/quote]
First off I have no idea why you reply in italics because no one does that and it looks like shit. This is an incoherent mess. Youâve talked to a few ladies that have been raped and become pregnant then throw out stats that donât have massive population states in them. Finally you end this response with something that has absolutely nothing to do with what youâre talking about. Iâm a father btw which pretty much has zero to do with a womanâs right to make decisions about her body.
You quoted me saying something that has nothing to do with this response. It makes it hard to follow if you donât know how to use the quote function correctly.
Your posting history? You used to link religious propaganda and start new topics regularly on it.
Youâre right. End of discussion for me. The extra body parts isnât relevant. Should a woman not be able to save her life because of a toe?
We should do everything we can to limit the amount of abortions that happen. So letâs increase knowledge about contraceptive use and sex education. Letâs make those items cheap or free. And letâs stop fighting against those things because we think invisible man hates horny people who arenât married.
Also here use actual stats (below) and not âI talked to Jane.â Also you realize anywhere between 89-91 percent of rapes go unreported right? How many abortions that get counted in your statistics are from rape and no one would ever know?
Iâm not really interested in a statistical battle because they donât strengthen the arguments. Should a raped woman or a woman dying be forced to carry a child to term? Are you supporting actual ways to limit unwanted pregnancies like comprehensive sex education and contraception access? Or are you just walking around saying âdonât have sex everyone!â
https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/datasources/nisvs/understanding-RRP-inUS.html