The Abortion Thread II

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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You’ve shared why you’re against it. It’s fine if you’re against birth control. But you want abortion to not happen. Those are competing beliefs. Increased contraceptive use lessens the chance of unintended pregnancy. Arguing otherwise makes no sense. I bet I can find more data that backs my position up than yours from some catholic fringe website. But if you want to play statistics over it I’m game.

What’s funny is you’ve seemed to convince yourself of stuff that we actually know is wrong. You’re strategy is to get rid of birth control and not have people fuck. That strategy WILL LEAD TO MORE ABORTIONS. I capitalized that out to help you. Abortions come from unwanted children and your strategy is to increase the chance of unwanted children.

How are you not laughing with me? Your position of “everyone just don’t fuck” is laughable beyond measure. Similar scenario:

“Mr person running for President what will you do about crime?”

A: I will get rid of cops and I will tell people to be good.

“Mr person running for President what will you do about healthcare?”

A: I will take away hospitals and tell people to not get sick.

I will say this again. If we eliminated all contraceptives today the abortion rate would go up. People aren’t going to stop having sex. They just aren’t. No matter how much you tell people to be good little Christians. People aren’t going to stop rape. Medicine hasn’t solved all issues where a pregnancy may need to be terminated to save the mothers life.

If you want to see more abortions your “solutions” are the ticket to that. Why don’t you read up on communist Romania and see what happened there when they did what you want.

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Probably more on me. I know these things and yet I’m so shocked by them and the lunacy I can’t help but respond!

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I stopped at the point, well past the the point I guess that I realized that this was no debate. I was bringing arguments, and in return I was preached at with the same nonsense.

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I may disagree with kneedraggers points made (and later when I have the time I’ll probably respond)… but this is an attack on ones character, there is no place for this within intellectual debate

We all come from differing environments, parental influence and environmental factors growing up can greatly alter our opinions regarding numerous subtopics

Civilised debate is perfectly healthy, it allows up to see a viewpoint from the lens of a conflicting party… no matter how absurd or hysterical it may seem to us. To resort to petty insults/character defamation isn’t a good way to go about winning an arguement.

Perhaps he is poorly educated, many harbouring similar opinions are (but not all, you’ll find some MD’s are pro life)… to stipulate he is of low IQ, mentally unstable… we have no evidence to back this up

This (along with other topics such as gun control, societal reform, immigration/rights of immigrants, global warming etc) are topics I’m passionate about. When others disagree with me and/or discredit my opinion, claiming “fake news” even when presented with factual evidence… it infuriates me, however I will never stoop low enough to attack someone’s character as a counter arguement. At this aforementioned point, walk away…

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He has posted here for years; he isn’t right in the head. And this isn’t an intellectual debate as he bases his position on a, by definition, irrational belief.

And I don’t say he’s poorly educated and unintelligent because of his position on abortion but because his argument is weak and at times nonsensical. He doesn’t know science and he doesn’t even know his religion that well.

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Basing an arguement off religious off of religious belief may seem absurd to you or me… but to others religion may be the logic they abide their life by. I may not believe in it, you may not believe in it… but we do have to respect the opinions harboured by others

That being said I’ve read his arguement and I vehemently disagree with his conveyed ideology.

I was actually born and raised modern orthodox (Jewish), had to go to Hebrew school, studied how to read Hebrew for my bar mitzvah… went to a Jewish school for a couple years, was forced to abide by kosher eating philosophies (not full kosher, but no shrimp, milk and meat, pork etc)… stigma regarding who I can/can’t date (is she Jewish etc)… having studied quite a bit of Torah in school/looking at scripture (of which I don’t remember much of now) I came to the conclusion it was all BS and completely, yet gradually broke away from anything to do with religion… im still forced to attend Shabbat (dinners), make a little prayer at the table etc… I can understand where those harbouring opinion relating to religious philosophy are coming from

For many of the more extreme/devoutly religious, this is ALL they know. If someone is coming from decades of preaching, it’s difficult to accept scientific evidence/what we consider to be current era, rational ideology. My family wasn’t particularly religious, just kept kosher, Shabbat dinners, in America we’d attend synogauge every Saturday (like church but 4 hours long… longer if you stay for the meal afterwards)… even though we aren’t incredibly religious there are still some very outdated beliefs held within my family, I can only imagine how difficult it’d be for say… an evangelical Christian…

I loved my rabbi, he was one of the greatest guys I’ve ever known… he knew I was “different” but didn’t judge or seem to care, he only cared that I grew up to be a nice, well mannered individual… for this we got along well.

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I’m not going to respect an opinion when someone says I want to sexually abuse women when they are most fertile.

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You can base an argument on whatever you choose however, that doesn’t change the fact that a religious based argument is irrational and has no place in deciding issues that affect the public in a nation that believes in separation of church and state. Unless they can prove their god exists, which they cannot, their argument is weak, defective and nonsensical. A true believer, who is not a moronic fanatic, would recognize that and keep it out of the discussion or at the very least qualify his position by stating it is his belief and not based in science or even fact as well as not demand that others accomodate his beliefs to their detriment.

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Dude, God said it was all good…like slavery, war, killing male children and women unfit for sex slavery.

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Religion can’t change facts. And the facts are that getting rid of contraception will lead to more unwanted pregnancies. Unwanted pregnancies have the potential to lead to abortion. It’s the only way they happen with the exception of health of the mother.

These things aren’t opinions they are facts. I don’t care if one is against abortion or against birth control. But they need to acknowledge the facts that come with them.

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But god doesn’t want people to have sex even though in the Bible people are either fucking or killing.

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Maybe they are all frustrated because they don’t have any fun in the bedroom. If your life was waiting until marriage to have sex and then you had infrequent boring sex you might have frustration as well.

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Understand my words, otherwise I can’t even have a discussion.

Consequence - definition of consequence by The Free Dictionary

Consequences can be positive or negative and that understanding is “just evil?”

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Using birth-control is a pharmaceutical abortion. All contraceptives are abortifacient. The name of the pills tell you what they are and how they work. What would happen if your wife got pregnant because the birth-control failed? You would get an abortion.

In my experience, people do the best when they are held accountable for their actions.

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When I get the chance I’ll read up on Romania, but just my initial thoughts are we can’t compare the two because America is the leader of the free world; Romania not so much. But I’ll look into it.

You want to play the statistics game? Lets dive into it but when you bring pages that are from a company that supports abortion, you can’t expect me to take that to me anything other than abortion solves problems.

Think about, here come a person into class telling the kids how to “safely have sex.” Sure the kids are going to fuck and sure birth-control fails. What happens then? They get an abortion to cover the mistake. The more kids, the more unintended pregnancies and the more abortions. Something like 96% of PP clinics are within a few miles of ghettos and college campuses. Margret Sanger thought we need abortion to cut down on the “undesirables.”

You just compared unintentional pregnancy to crime? Seriously? Sorry man, your thinking is pretty skewed.

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My wife and I have never used birth control so try again. We did use condoms so I’m sure your God is still mad.

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You’re right. They didn’t have to worry about that little freedom thing as much so they could implement the policies you want. Our freedom actually works against you since you want condoms, pills, etc gone.

Since I would have plenty of different sources for mine I’m sure you would dismiss them all as pro-death universities. But if you really think you got something there go ahead. Pure logic (and statistics) will prove you wrong.

That smell coming from your computer is bullshit. Not everyone gets an abortion. Way more people don’t than do. Abstinence only education has proven to be unsuccessful in comparison to a comprehensive sex education program. If you want more teenage pregnancies then you want abstinence only education. Oh yeah and some of those teens are going to get abortions. So you picking the least successful method increases something you claim to be against.

No I didn’t. Come on man at least TRY and read/comprehend. I made up a fake scenario to show the absurdity in what you advocate for.

Sorry if I question your ability to make comments on anyone’s thinking when you claimed I wanted to sexually abuse women when they are fertile. At least we don’t have to worry about pregnancy much with the rapes coming from your religion. Usually that’s just male priests raping young men. I’m sure they don’t use condoms to remain pure in God’s eyes.

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How does someone as stupid as you manage to survive in this world? All contraceptives are not, according to scientists, abortifacients. You are either a moron or a liar. Probably both.

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The thing is what he wants to have happen would actually increase abortions. It makes zero sense.

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Birth control, be it condoms, hormonal contraception, vasectomy isn’t abortion… nor is it a crime.

Let me be very frank here, the prospect of birth control has been around for a very long time. The first condoms have been dated back to 1000 BC, the stigmatisation of condoms, birth control is generally based within a religious context. I don’t mind if you’re argument is constructed from that of religious beliefs… But if you’re going to insinuate @H_factor is morally abhorrent, sexually abuses women/ is responsible for the death of children because he decides to wear a condom I’ll tell you to politely leave this conversation.

The repercussions that can stem from pregnancy (quality of life regarding then child, whether the mother is healthy enough to give a risk free birth, burden on public healthcare, financial cost) etc outweigh the notion of “oh but this book says you’ll go to hell”… not all of us believe in hell, and you ought to respect that just as we respect the fact that you harbour a particular view.

When the pill is taken CORRECTLY, its between 99.7-99.9 percent effective. Don’t teach kids about safe sex, they fuck anyway… the pregnancy rate is far higher, kids grow up in shitty, broken homes without adequate parental figures (because teenagers aren’t equipped neurologically or financially to be parents)…

Is this true though, by age 20 4.6% of woman have roughly had an abortion, whereas the statistic climbs to 19% by age 30… there are inherent risks to giving birth below the age of 20 (dramatically increasing maternal mortality rates)… statistics back this up too, but I’m not getting into that. The truth is, the majority below the age of thirty aren’t equipped with the tools needed to adequately raise a child.

Sorry, I’m with @H_factor here

It’s based off religious argument, whilst I respect and acknowledge such an argument exists. Ideologies stemming from religion aren’t exactly steeped in science or rationality