The 3rd Law of Muscle

Nutrition
181

[quote]Professor Chaos wrote:
I would like to try Poliquin’s method of taking in 40 grams of BCAA during workouts. Does this conflict with taking Surge Workout Fuel during training?

If so, which is more effective (Surge Workout Fuel or 40 grams of BCAA)? Cost is not an issue.

Thank you
[/quote]

I’ve never tried that much BCAA during training, but I can tell you that I don’t think any of the staff in the office use BCAA during training anymore. I know we’ve stopped using BCAA para-workout with the athletes for whom we design supplement protocols.

Check out Christain’s Para-Workout Nutrition thread for details.

182

Hey all,

This may be the “no pain, no gain” demon in me, but it seems to me that this stuff works so well that - while it insanely increases my performance - I wonder if I’m making much in the way of size gains. Lactic acid and the like - don’t they signal for increased protein synthesis, GH output, etc? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks & Cheers, ~katz

183

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Hey all,

This may be the “no pain, no gain” demon in me, but it seems to me that this stuff works so well that - while it insanely increases my performance - I wonder if I’m making much in the way of size gains. Lactic acid and the like - don’t they signal for increased protein synthesis, GH output, etc? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks & Cheers, ~katz[/quote]

Think about it, if lactic acid production signaled for size gains runners would be huge.

I haven’t seen any detriment to myself or others using Surge Workout Fuel to build size. My muscles have been fuller than ever since I’ve started using it.

184

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Hey all,

This may be the “no pain, no gain” demon in me, but it seems to me that this stuff works so well that - while it insanely increases my performance - I wonder if I’m making much in the way of size gains. Lactic acid and the like - don’t they signal for increased protein synthesis, GH output, etc? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks & Cheers, ~katz[/quote]

I forgot to add, if your workouts are improved, but you’re not making the gains you expect, I recommend making sure that you’re doing the right training, and eating, for your objectives.

185

I’m trying out this new product at the moment and am getting a bit of a buzz out of it. I can manage the ‘substrate pre-loading’ 15 minutes prior to working out, but have a more rudimentary problem, namely : how long before a workout should I have eaten my last pre-workout meal (ie dinner).

Now the next issue I’d like to resolve is the cominatiions of other supplements into the mix. I’m taking Rhodiola rosea, TRIBEX, Receptormax (on workout days only), creatine and Surge Recovery. Protein (Grow!, Metabolic Drive) aswell of course throughout the day. When taken all at the correct stages during the day, which can mean overlapping in soome cases, is there any chance they’d lose effectiveness?

A question on Rez-V: is there any need to take it if there’s no sign of gyna-something-or-other in the nipples? I’ve a bit of fat and/or water retention but probably don’t have an estrogen problem. Would TRIBEX be enough, is it a good idea to continue to take Rez-V, but possibly in lower doses. I read that some estrogen is beneficial for bone health and libido.

The final thing I’d like to ask is whether there’s a need for the constant sipping of Surge Workout Fuel. It’s all well and good to sip it over an hour, but surely all the d-glucose etc would play havoc with the teeth (enamel erosion, decay etc). After taking in a blast of Surge Recovery I’d always swish out my mouth with some milk, to neutralise the acidifying effects of sucrose.

Would it be alright to whack back a full scoop of Surge Workout Fuel swish with milk and be done with it? Perhaps this level of neuroticism is a bit much, but keeping teeth probably extends lifespan more so than weight lifting. Especially when civilisation as we know it crumbles and we’ve to go back to chewing bark. It would be interesting to see some dentists comment.

186

[quote]MRbasal-faulty wrote:
I’m trying out this new product at the moment and am getting a bit of a buzz out of it. I can manage the ‘substrate pre-loading’ 15 minutes prior to working out, but have a more rudimentary problem, namely : how long before a workout should I have eaten my last pre-workout meal (ie dinner).[/quote]

This depends on the contents of the meal, the type of training you’ll be doing, and your tolerance to training with food in your stomach.

Most people prefer to have 1 to 2 hours between their last meal and training, although you may find you can get by with less time or you might need more.

[quote]MRbasal-faulty wrote:
Now the next issue I’d like to resolve is the cominatiions of other supplements into the mix. I’m taking Rhodiola rosea, TRIBEX, Receptormax (on workout days only), creatine and Surge Recovery. Protein (Grow!, Metabolic Drive) aswell of course throughout the day. When taken all at the correct stages during the day, which can mean overlapping in soome cases, is there any chance they’d lose effectiveness?[/quote]

None of these, or any other Biotest supplements, will decrease the effectiveness of Surge Workout Fuel.

[quote]MRbasal-faulty wrote:
A question on Rez-V: is there any need to take it if there’s no sign of gyna-something-or-other in the nipples? I’ve a bit of fat and/or water retention but probably don’t have an estrogen problem. Would TRIBEX be enough, is it a good idea to continue to take Rez-V, but possibly in lower doses. I read that some estrogen is beneficial for bone health and libido.[/quote]

This should be asked in the REZ-V product thread.

[quote]MRbasal-faulty wrote:
The final thing I’d like to ask is whether there’s a need for the constant sipping of Surge Workout Fuel. It’s all well and good to sip it over an hour, but surely all the d-glucose etc would play havoc with the teeth (enamel erosion, decay etc). After taking in a blast of Surge Recovery I’d always swish out my mouth with some milk, to neutralise the acidifying effects of sucrose.[/quote]

One of the primary carbohydrates in Surge Workout Fuel, Isomaltulose, has been shown to prevent tooth decay, so we do not believe sipping will pose a problem.

None of the athletes that have been using this or earlier prototype versions over the past several years have reported any issues with accelerated tooth decay or increased dental carries.

Sipping isn’t required, however. It’s just that most athletes prefer a steady fluid intake while training hard.

187

Surge Workout Fuel is incredible. I bought the lemonade flavor and it tastes good but very strong. I had tons of energy and after a very hard chest/arms workout had enough energy to keep going hard for a couple more hours. The best part was I don’t crash and don’t feel weird like I do with some other supps. Highly recommend this stuff.

188

[quote]Vestiaz wrote:
Surge Workout Fuel is incredible. I bought the lemonade flavor and it tastes good but very strong. I had tons of energy and after a very hard chest/arms workout had enough energy to keep going hard for a couple more hours. The best part was I don’t crash and don’t feel weird like I do with some other supps. Highly recommend this stuff.[/quote]

yup without a doubt the best pre-workout drink out there!!

189

I was an extremely heavy Surge Recovery user prior to Surge Workout Fuel.

By extremely heavy, I mean often as much as 3 scoops immediately preworkout, the same at the 1 hour point, and the same yet again when done at the 2 hour point. (In reference to those workouts that were 2 hours.)

It does not do the same as SWF.

Much better than nothing or more typical approaches: I wouldn’t have been able to do such high volume and hard workouts without it.

But I did not have the enhanced performance in terms of reps performed in the sets that I immediately obtained when switching to SWF.

And I saved on caloric intake, too.

Now I still use Surge Recovery: 1 scoop along with 2 scoops of Grow Whey and 1 scoop of SWF for the amino pulsing protocol (SWF also gets used as 2 scoops 1 hour prior to workout); 1 scoop along with 2 scoops Anaconda at the start of workouts; and 1 scoop Surge Recovery per half hour after that. I then don’t need a high carb postworkout shake but just use 2 scoops Grow Whey and a Finibar.

In Thibaudeau’s forum he has given some explanations of suitable protocols for those not having Anaconda. Surge Recovery still plays a role; but it alone is not a substitute for SWF.

190

[quote]redgladiator wrote:

Spike + Surge Workout Fuel = :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Is this okay?

How does this “rush” compare to say a redline or 500-600mg’s of caffeine?

(My order of the two is on it’s way and want to know if mixing the two will feel like I’m overdosing on caffeine, which makes the second half of my WO suck.)

191

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
redgladiator wrote:

Spike + Surge Workout Fuel = :slight_smile:

Is this okay?

How does this “rush” compare to say a redline or 500-600mg’s of caffeine?

(My order of the two is on it’s way and want to know if mixing the two will feel like I’m overdosing on caffeine, which makes the second half of my WO suck.)[/quote]

Surge Workout Fuel doesn’t contain caffeine or other CNS stimulants, so there’s no problem using it and any version of Spike together.

192

hey, i was wondering what they meant by an intense workout? are they referring to heavy loads with weights? cause i do alot of body weight workouts, like tabatas, which is 4 minutes of 8 sets. you do 20 seconds of work 10 seconds rest, and you go for 4 minutes, would that be considered intense if i do a few of those in a row? with pushups, squats and other things

193

Many of the athletes it was developed for, and what they employed it for, was not weight training but demanding activity such as you describe, so, yes.

194

Just cracked open the fruit punch flavor and I must say it tastes much better than lemon lime, IMO.

195

[quote]GusBus07 wrote:
Just cracked open the fruit punch flavor and I must say it tastes much better than lemon lime, IMO.[/quote]

I prefer lemon.

196

[quote]redgladiator wrote:
GusBus07 wrote:
Just cracked open the fruit punch flavor and I must say it tastes much better than lemon lime, IMO.

I prefer lemon.[/quote]

I guess our taste buds agree to disagree

197

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I was an extremely heavy Surge Recovery user prior to Surge Workout Fuel.

By extremely heavy, I mean often as much as 3 scoops immediately preworkout, the same at the 1 hour point, and the same yet again when done at the 2 hour point. (In reference to those workouts that were 2 hours.)

It does not do the same as SWF.

Much better than nothing or more typical approaches: I wouldn’t have been able to do such high volume and hard workouts without it.

But I did not have the enhanced performance in terms of reps performed in the sets that I immediately obtained when switching to SWF.

And I saved on caloric intake, too.

Now I still use Surge Recovery: 1 scoop along with 2 scoops of Grow Whey and 1 scoop of SWF for the amino pulsing protocol (SWF also gets used as 2 scoops 1 hour prior to workout); 1 scoop along with 2 scoops Anaconda at the start of workouts; and 1 scoop Surge Recovery per half hour after that. I then don’t need a high carb postworkout shake but just use 2 scoops Grow Whey and a Finibar.

In Thibaudeau’s forum he has given some explanations of suitable protocols for those not having Anaconda. Surge Recovery still plays a role; but it alone is not a substitute for SWF.[/quote]

Bill,

For the amino pulsing protocol are you using Surge Workout Fuel, Surge Recovery, and Whey? If so what are the advantages of using the Surge Workout Fuel outside the para workout window? I assumed it’s benefits were only achieved when taking it before/ during training? I’m currently using just 12g of casein hydrolysate for amino pulsing throughout day.

I’m currently following Thibs para workout recommendations using FINiBAR, followed by 2 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel, then 2 scoops Surge Recovery. I then use 1-2 scoops Surge Recovery during training. My question is now that i have casein hydrolysate would you advise adding it to Surge Recovery during training or using casein hydrolysate as a stand alone and omitting Surge Recovery? I don’t have access to Anaconda yet and I noticed you added Surge Recovery to Anaconda before training. You sure seem to love your Surge Recovery :slight_smile:

198

Personally I currently am doing the amino pulses as:

  1. 5 g leucine plus estimated 15-20 g casein hydrolysate (I use half of a particular scoop and haven’t determined actual weight.)

  2. 20 min later, 1 scoop Surge Recovery plus 1.5 or 2 scoops Grow! Whey

Then an hour after that before taking anything else in. That then gets the 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel and 1 scoop whey. That is not for the pulsing protocol but for the workout that will follow in 30 min to 1 hour: I’m aiming for about 40 min presently.

I don’t how the para-workout window may be defined by others, but 30-60 minutes beforehand does get the body loaded with the Surge Workout Fuel ingredients by time of workout, and they haven’t had time to be lost to metabolism yet.

In the pulse it might be better to use more Surge Recovery than the above, but I am cutting right now.

The above post described an earlier personal method.

Yes, not having Anaconda, adding casein hydrolysate to Surge Recovery for use during training would be a good move.

Yes, I do love Surge Recovery. :slight_smile:

I do want to stress that for information on the pulses, the thing to do is to read what CT has written in his forum. I am going from his information; anything that may differ from what he said may be no improvement but in my case is being done because of the timeframe for me between the pulse and the workout, or personal thought that may be no improvement. Though I do think that what I do is fitting within the parameters of what he is explained: if I didn’t think that, I’d change it so that it would.

199

Sorry, correction, and post hasn’t appeared yet so I can’t just edit.

One of the reasons it works so well to use Anaconda and Surge Recovery and not use Surge Workout Fuel during the workout, though loading before the workout absolutely does help, is because Anaconda does everything Surge Workout Fuel does (plus more).

By only adding casein hydrolysate to Surge Recovery, that is not being accomplished.

I’m sure it would be better, while having to make do without Anaconda, to add the casein hydrolysate to Surge Workout Fuel rather than to Surge Recovery. However, taking Surge Recovery shortly before the workout as CT recommends would be a plus. That would be the better timing for it.

I would also have a loading of Surge Workout Fuel before the workout, for example 1 scoop 30 minutes before.

200

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Sorry, correction, and post hasn’t appeared yet so I can’t just edit.

One of the reasons it works so well to use Anaconda and Surge Recovery and not use Surge Workout Fuel during the workout, though loading before the workout absolutely does help, is because Anaconda does everything Surge Workout Fuel does (plus more).

By only adding casein hydrolysate to Surge Recovery, that is not being accomplished.

I’m sure it would be better, while having to make do without Anaconda, to add the casein hydrolysate to Surge Workout Fuel rather than to Surge Recovery. However, taking Surge Recovery shortly before the workout as CT recommends would be a plus. That would be the better timing for it.

I would also have a loading of Surge Workout Fuel before the workout, for example 1 scoop 30 minutes before.[/quote]

So you’re essentially saying here that to attain some “Anaconda-Like” benefits, one should mix Hydrolyzed Casein with Surge Workout Fuel during the workout?