Thanks to the Veterans

Off Topic
181

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
orion wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
orion wrote:
BSC819 wrote:
orion wrote:
Dustin wrote:
and this one…

How dare you!

That is a mere Fr�??�??�??�??�?�¼hschwimmer whereas I have a Freischwimmer!

http://www.schwimmschule-fischer.at/Schwimmabzeichen/schwimmabzeichen.html

Why do you hate Austria?

I dont hate Austria, I just hate you and want to kick your face in.

You know how you know that you are wrong?

When all that you have left is an appeal to emotions and the urge to smash anything you disagree with.

Well,you did needlessly hijack his thread because of something you disagreed with…and turned it into an argument that is neither here or there in regards to Veteran’s day. Regardless of his hyper-patriotic original statement…I didn’t see it as anything that was treading on you.

There are numerous American’s who basically hate blind patriotism as much as you…YET still can see soldiers as people and respect the fact that they sacrifice themselves for serving their country.

Maybe you can’t really relate to this as you sit at your computer in Austria. You can read and soak up all information you want on “everything American”…but some things you will always be out of touch with that relate to us.

That also works the other way though.

Being American and practically soaked in her culture you do not seem to have any idea how blatantly absurd some of this flag waving really looks like and there are some things about the rest of the world you will never get by just sitting behind your American computer.

Also not by bombing other countries.

What a weak tit-for-tat and broad generalization of a response. I don’t arrogantly pretend to “know” the rest of the world…as you arrogantly pretend to “know” everything American. You have a long trail on these forums of obsession with our country.

I guess you missed the part where I said that some American’s(including myself) hate blind-patriotism…so it might evident that I do know how absurd it can look to the rest of the world. But so what? That doesn’t make us celebrating our veterans being as absurd. Like I said, you can’t relate to that on our level. No matter what you say…or how emotionally attached you are to what our military has done.

Hell,you can’t even relate to our soldiers…you keep this broad generalization of them as killers. I live amongst soldiers…not all have killed…not all are capable of it…not all are even good soldiers. But I still know how to relate to them and respect those who are worth the respect.

You can’t distinguish amongst them…instead you have to make assumptions based on current events…and your disgust with our government. Remember what this thread was about…and get out of your black and white line of thought.

[/quote]

No I cannot relate to your soldiers.

But that was pretty much my point.

I do not feel the need to “thank them for serving”, I do not get goosebumps listening to the American anthem, I have no feelings whatsoever seeing the American flag.

So I know for a fact that all of the above do not automatically have to lead to very specific emotions, you all just have a Pavlovian response when you see them and some people like the OP seem to have been indoctrinated so early and so thoroughly that they cannot seem to shake it even a little bit.

And this has consequences.

This is even more taboo then religion in the US because even though you can say the most outrageous things about churches even critics of wars and mindless slaughter always make sure that they point out that they “support the troops”, but without that “support” none of the slaughtering would be happening.

So maybe it takes someone who really does not need to give a shit one way or the other to point that out.

Also, and I do not know how often I need to post that, this is a site that is mostly frequented by Americans. I do not really care if I discuss things that interest me using examples that Americans understand. To claim that that is a sign of my “obsession” with all things American does not bother me, there are worse obsessions, but I do not believe that to be true.

182

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Dustin wrote:

I didn’t sign up to fight for the just cause of the fictitious “war on terror”. I signed up for my own reasons; a steady job, experience, training. I have never looked at the Army as anything other than a job.

This is also what is missed when people make broad and misplaced generalizations of soldiers in the first place…especially with recent events. [/quote]

It is not missed.

Do you think it makes a difference for those dead why you signed on?

184

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Amiright wrote:
pushharder wrote:
You have the Middle East screaming, “Please protect us from each other!..forever!”

That entire list had problems… but this is the only one I cared about. Might want to look up your middle eastern history sense roughly 1912 starting with British oil.

No, the list had no problems and although Britain has been a reliable ally no country but the US has carried the principal load of protecting the Middle East from each other since the 70s.[/quote]

Was that a good or a bad thing and how would you know?

Sorry to bother you but my crystal ball is all cloudy today.

185

This thread is still going?! Ok, to summarize my argument about this into several points:

  1. Ok, the initial post was a little over the top, but people get emotional on veteran’s day so whatever.

  2. Blind patriotism IS retarded, you should always question your nation’s motives and think for yourself.

  3. I’ve served with some absolute bags of shit who should not even get thanked for being human beings, let alone servicemen. But that does not equal no respect for all service men and women. There are a great number of decent people fighting and risking their lives to make the world better.

  4. Orion, godamn dude, you could’ve picked a different day to start your anti US government thread, instead of hijacking this one.

  5. Veterans day is about remembering people who made the ultimate sacrifice in the name of their country, be it in any number of wars. It should not be a day for political grandstanding: it’s a day to remember people.

186

[quote]orion wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Dustin wrote:

I didn’t sign up to fight for the just cause of the fictitious “war on terror”. I signed up for my own reasons; a steady job, experience, training. I have never looked at the Army as anything other than a job.

This is also what is missed when people make broad and misplaced generalizations of soldiers in the first place…especially with recent events.

It is not missed.

Do you think it makes a difference for those dead why you signed on?

[/quote]

Yes…it is missed by many. People in the U.S. do make misplaced and broad generalizations about soldiers…whether with good or bad intent. That has been evident in this very thread.

Did you assume I was making a case for justifying something?

187

I’m not even a US citizen and I’m disgusted by the disrespect some of you give to your fellow fallen. Shame on you.

189

[quote]orion wrote:
spyoptic wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
spyoptic wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
spyoptic wrote:
orion wrote:

It is NOT your fault things are this way. Genetics aside, our views and opinions are shaped by our environment. What did they teach us in school?

Elites use mass education to create privilege for themselves. The hidden or latent curriculum is central, with subordination at the core. Real education - growth of individual and civic power - systematically suppressed. Indoctrination, authoritarianism, interpersonal brutality, competition, stratification all central to modern education.

forcing students to recite the pledge of allegiance is a violation of its meaning and the idea of a free society,
the pledge was accompanied by a hands outstretched, Fascist salute. (changed in 1943 for obvious reasons.)

I dont know what to reply to that in relation to what I was trying to say.

Dont think I am some kind of illuminated freak cultist follower but my vision of this stuff pretty much goes on with the vision of Jiddu Krishnamurti. I know you wont but if you want to hear something that will really change the way you live go rent a book by him.

I had already read a couple of things in philosophy and I rented a book of his conversation pretty much by randomness (my library was allowing to rent 50 books for 6 months for construction, I was just picking random books for the lulz) and I am happy I read that one

It was a response to your claim that the individual is to blame for the way institutions create inequality.

I claim it is not the independent mind of the individual that is to blame, but the institution’s deliberate shaping of ideology through the education system, government, religions, economy and the military that create and reproduce class stratification and an unequal society.

i.e: Is it the blacks fault why they don’t go to college and have a higher percentage of people in poverty and in prisons? Is it their fault they have lower IQs? If the individual mind is to blame, then you would think this is true, correct?

I think you give some institutions far too much credit.

They simply use what is already there. Now the shape of what is there is always pretty similar, but the exact reasons to feel superior and have some collectivist illusions differ.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

The same is true for nationalism, militarism, communism, you name it.

[/quote]

exactly; institutions use what is already there. But I claim the fashion in which they use it causes the problems. They are fabrications of the human mind; therefore they can be broken down and formed anew.

Religions is regarded as true for the common folk and for the rulers as useful - WHY do their leaders want them to believe in religion?
In today’s perspective - WHY our leaders want us to believe these institutions are the normal order of things?
Because like that quote, LEADERS FIND IT USEFUL. It is social control - plain and simple. It is there to benefit the leaders.

Go deep enough you will find that everything is to benefit the rich; there are too many lies and the most important one that 99.9999% MUST believe that this is NOT TRUE. Institutions (religion, school, family, economy, military, the media) is manipulated both intentionallly and unintentionally to control your actions and your mind.