Testopel Experience?

I was guessing the cortisol was an early afternoon blood draw, is that correct?

I know you know your body and trust your doctor, but you may want to get your thyroid looked at in more detail. TSH 2.34 is not a good number.

this could be a terrible analogy, but it is all that popped into my head… Think about your car oil which is suppose to be changed every 8,000 miles let’s say. High TSH is kind of like checking the oil and seeing it is low or dirty at 16,000 miles but still deciding to put off maintainence.

Can you get away with it? yeah you can always push your car.

Could there be damage occuring that you can’t see or feel? yeah.

Could your engine just decide to seize up one day and suffer a catastrophic failure? maybe.

What if you just let it go and then treat it a year later, would there be any longer term damage to the system? maybe

TSH > 1 is your body sending out a warning signal that it is having to work harder to try and maintain regular performance. Ignoring this signal is like ignoring the check engine light. It might very well be nothing (especially if you are feeling at 100% with no symptoms or issues whatsoever), but it could also indicate a serious malfunction that will cause significant problems in the near future. (leaking gaskets, malfunctioning timing/signaling, clogged injectors, etc.)

I’m not sure why you’re worried about TSH considering it’s normal. Granted, there are people with hypothyroidism with those levels, but from what I know you have to check T4 also. Do you have symptoms of low thyroid? (Again, I’m not a doctor.)

From what I know, the body has you getting nocturnal erections in case you do not have sex or masturbate so that your dick can be working properly (lack of regular blood flow there is not good) and to keep one from urinating during the night. (This is from what I’ve read. I’m not the expert. I can ask my andrologist next time I see him.)

I haven’t been tracking you on here, but I forgot if you take testosterone medication. If not, why? Why are you not getting medication for a T level that would have most men scurrying to the doctor?

When morning wood is gone, that is an indication of reduced sexual function and libido. It is not very scientific, but is a yes or no thing and valuable for that.

estrogen levels are one of the main players in determining one’s ability to have morning wood (I believe). but it is just one symptom, everyone is different genetically and our bodies react differently to a variety of things. so what is true for some or most, may not be true for you.

Brick: I have a thread going here: Endocrinologist May be Half-Assing This - Testosterone Replacement - Forums - T Nation

The short of it is this: endo put me on TRT, which I’m continuing. He told me to inject 200mg EOW, which is what I did for the first two weeks. It ended badly. I’m planning on doing 50mg E3.5D, though I screwed up on Tuesday and injected 100mg (I forgot that my script is for 200mg/mL, not 100mg/mL) so I’ll wait til next Tuesday to inject again.

And yes, ‘scurrying to the doctor’ is what I should have done a long time ago; as far as I can tell I’ve had these symptoms of hypogonadism since I was a teen (puberty was definitely delayed or slowed, whatever my mother says - my voice has never stopped cracking, I never got heavy acne, I rarely had erections before my mid-teens, I didn’t have any sexual interest in women until I was 16, and I never masturbated until I was 18).

I’ve been feeling borderline suicidal since age 13, so I suspect that is around when it started to some extent. If my SO hadn’t researched side effects of cryptorchidism (undescended testicle) and discovered hypogonadism, I highly doubt I would have made it to 30 - that’s how bad I’ve been feeling this past decade.

As for thyroid: AACE says 0.3-3.0 is the correct range (see: TSH Levels: What Do High and Low Levels Mean?), 2.99 is literally borderline. There’s also quite a bit of discontent from patients regarding the claim that TSH < 3 is ok (e.g. Stop the Thyroid Madness). My highly fluctuating TSH levels worry me, too - 1.55, 2.99, and 1.81 in 3 tests (@ 10 AM, 8 AM, 8:45 AM respectively, all were 12 hour fasts, tests 1 and 2 were about 2 months apart, tests 2 and 3 were about 1 month apart).

Edit: Note also that the NACB (National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry) believes that the upper limit will be further reduced to 2.5 mIU/L (uIU/mL).

It’s interesting that I get morning erections even if I’ve masturbated multiple times the day before considering that I do have very low libido and sexual function (i.e. sometimes difficult to get or stay hard even when horny regardless of SSRI or SNRI use, always difficult to climax from masturbation with SSRI or SNRI/sometimes difficult without, impossible to climax from intercourse while on SSRI or SNRI/difficult without).

My guess is that this is simply age-related for me, as I’m 23 years old.

[quote]PureChance wrote:
I was guessing the cortisol was an early afternoon blood draw, is that correct?

I know you know your body and trust your doctor, but you may want to get your thyroid looked at in more detail. TSH 2.34 is not a good number.

this could be a terrible analogy, but it is all that popped into my head… Think about your car oil which is suppose to be changed every 8,000 miles let’s say. High TSH is kind of like checking the oil and seeing it is low or dirty at 16,000 miles but still deciding to put off maintainence.

Can you get away with it? yeah you can always push your car.

Could there be damage occuring that you can’t see or feel? yeah.

Could your engine just decide to seize up one day and suffer a catastrophic failure? maybe.

What if you just let it go and then treat it a year later, would there be any longer term damage to the system? maybe

TSH > 1 is your body sending out a warning signal that it is having to work harder to try and maintain regular performance. Ignoring this signal is like ignoring the check engine light. It might very well be nothing (especially if you are feeling at 100% with no symptoms or issues whatsoever), but it could also indicate a serious malfunction that will cause significant problems in the near future. (leaking gaskets, malfunctioning timing/signaling, clogged injectors, etc.)[/quote]

So then what does one do?

If TSH is 1.5 then I recommend (from all I have read and had doctors request) Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3, ferritin, and 8am Cortisol to see if there is anything significant going on.

Free Thyroxine (T4) Free 1.1 - 1.7 ug/dL ideal
Free Triiodothyronine (T3) Free 3.3 - 3.9 pg/mL ideal
Reverse T3 <12 ng/dl ideal - should be 1/3 (10*Free T3) [so 3.9 free = 39 so RT3 should be no more than 13.]
ferritin 150 ng/mL is supposedly ideal for men (but 100-200 is ok I believe).
8am Cortisol 15-20 ug/dL is ideal (10 or less at an 8am blood draw is a potentially serious problem)

then if symptoms or blood work show any major abnormalities, correction action might be needed.

taking Iodine and/or Selenium can help support thyroid function.

an Iodine blood test can also be helpful as can a Spectracell (or similar) blood analysis for minerals/vitamin levels. i have never had one done, but I have strongly considered it.

You actually have me worried now and I made an appointment with an endocinologist for next week.

It’s not like your levels are at 10 or anything. It is just a blinking warning light on your dashboard that needs to be diagnosed.

I strongly suggest reading the stuff from 18 Summaries of Things We Have Learned - Stop The Thyroid Madness (plus all of their links on the left to other pages). it really is a great source of information on thyroid conditions.

It could be nothing, could be something minor, or could be a warning of an upcoming wreck. That’s what the extra tests can determine.

the “official” lab range still states 0.5 to 5.0 is normal even though the Endocrine Society acknowledged that everyone over TSH of 3 needs to be treated (and since they are conservative we know that having a 2.9 can not be ideal for anyone.) Progressive doctors treat TSH > 1. why wait till you have a system failure to get treated?

do you have any of these symptoms? Long Pathetic List of Hypothyroid Symptoms - Stop The Thyroid Madness

If I woke up with any wood I think I’d throw a party. Not even getting it during waking and working hours. Def going to discuss this with my Doc next week.

[quote]christopher36 wrote:
If I woke up with any wood I think I’d throw a party. Not even getting it during waking and working hours. Def going to discuss this with my Doc next week. [/quote]

You said your sex life is good.

You can still have nocturnal erections.

[quote]PureChance wrote:
It’s not like your levels are at 10 or anything. It is just a blinking warning light on your dashboard that needs to be diagnosed.

I strongly suggest reading the stuff from 18 Summaries of Things We Have Learned - Stop The Thyroid Madness (plus all of their links on the left to other pages). it really is a great source of information on thyroid conditions.

It could be nothing, could be something minor, or could be a warning of an upcoming wreck. That’s what the extra tests can determine.

the “official” lab range still states 0.5 to 5.0 is normal even though the Endocrine Society acknowledged that everyone over TSH of 3 needs to be treated (and since they are conservative we know that having a 2.9 can not be ideal for anyone.) Progressive doctors treat TSH > 1. why wait till you have a system failure to get treated?

do you have any of these symptoms? stopthethyroidmadness.com/long-and-pathetic/[/quote]

I have very few of them, and the ones I have are related to some other life things I have going on or changes in diet I’ve made myself. I’ll see what happens with my appontment next week.

@Bricknyce: How you doing with your results under Testopel. I’m interested in receiving the testopel as Im tired of Androgel, I saw the video you posted and got afraid but Im willing to get it. My T level is at around 200-250, sex life is good but it take a long time to reach orgasm, my fiance doesn’t complaint. Also what does HCG means?

Dear Bricknyce: I read a lot of these posts and a lot of them seem like a lot of high level b.s. I started on Sotto Pelle, 10 tabs. It is a pain in the ass, given the size of the “needle” (spike would be a better term), but you do get a shot of lidocaine or something similar prior to getting loaded up. The 10 Sotto Pelles cost me $240, and the minor surgery was $280.00. My insurance would not pay. In any event, after two weeks, my skin got oily and broke out, and I felt like superman going to the gym.

In nine weeks, yes, nine, count 'em, I put an inch and half on my upper arms(15" to 16 1/2"). I felt great. When I went in and had a total T level done, it was 1650. My doc didn’t freak, just said “A little high, we’ll do fewer pellets next time.” This lasted for three months. Ideally, the pellets are good for longer than that, but I must be a rapid metabolizer. Anyway, because of the cost, I switched to test. cyp. which is now running me about $15.00 a month v. about $180 monthly for the pellets. Yes, the pellets are conveninet–set and forget–but they are way more expensive + do involve minor surgery every time you have them put in. I did do them a second time, but this time my doc would only put in six, and I felt nothing subjectively from them.

Doing twice weekly T injections is nothing–I use insulin syringes with 1/2" 29 gauge needles, and it’s quick and easy. You can bump the levels at any point in time as you are the one doing the injections. I’ve been doing this now for over a year with no problems. You can get a 10 ml. bottle of test cyp, 2000 mg., at Freds for $60.00–cheap and easy.

Best of luck to you. Hope this helps.

doctornorm

Well, this is my first post. I have recently been diagnosed with hypogonadism - I’m 36, 2 tests Totals at 174 and 216. I received my first dose of Testopel a week ago. I am in a unique position because I have access to a lot of docs professionally and I have some unique insight to share. I hope to learn a lot from this forum and I hope what I share helps some of you too.

So here is a bit of what I have learned:

Sotto Pellets and compounded pellets will never be covered by your insurance bc they are not FDA approved. There use is actually border line illegal and billing insurance for their use would be fraud. Additionally, Testopel pellets come in individually secured glass ampules helping with the sterility concern.

Most docs use a starting dose of 10 pellets now. They can titrate up or down depending on where that puts you.

The Testopel procedure experience for the patient will be highly dependent on the docs experience. Personally, I had minor bruising and some soreness for a couple of days only. It is recommended to avoid strenuous exertion and/or soaking for a few days. There should not be any puss or severe pain.

To the poster that said he was going to his Uro instead of his endo next time, that might be a good idea, although an endo with a decent amount of experience should be fine.

RE insurance. Testopel is generally billed under the medical benefit portion of your plan unlike other modalities that are applied to your pharmacy benefit. If it is covered you might have an out of pocket expense like a co-pay but you should also check your deductable. If you have a $200 deductable for example you will have to pay that before your insurance kicks in. This might be different for pharmacy products where you just pay a co-pay and there is no deductable applied.

In some cases Testopel can be applied to your pharmacy benefit instead of your medical benefit. This is usually applied when your doc doesn’t want to pay out of pocket for the pellets and then wait for insurance to reimburse or when your medical benefit doesn’t cover but your pharmacy benefit might.

This therapy has actually been around for a long time but has only been promoted nationally for the last 12-18 months. Many docs, especially outside of Endo and Uro are just learning about it.

Hope that helps. Personally, I found the procedure to be nearly painless and easy. I found my sex drive improve within a couple of days. However, my energy level has yet to improve and that is one of the things I am really hoping for. I was both concerned and relieved at my diagnosis - I rushed to have my prolactin level checked bc I was worried about the possibility of a tumor. It was fine along with my LH, FSH, Estradiol, SHBG.

I still want to find out the cause but I realize that that might not happen. One doc I spoke with suggested getting my iron level checked and I am going to order my old labs to see if there is a recent record of it.

I am curious about IM injections. If my energy levels don’t improve over the course of this therapy I might give that a go.

Are you guys that inject EOD getting that from a doc? Several have stated that their insurance prevents them from letting patients self inject at home.

Bumped a semi old thread. I have never used any form of hormone treatment until I started TRT with pellets in March. I recently separated from Army with some badly damaged ankles (paratrooper that could never stick the landing). Put on lots of weight, didn’t find the energy or drive to hit the gym and eat right.

Goals: get my fat ass back in the gym, slim down for my wedding in June and focus on getting some mass later this year.

Information: 35 year old, 5’ 11", starting weight about 220, probably a body fat of well over 25% (not tested).

Blood test 1 (March 12) T2 322, E2 21.9
Was inserted with 10 pellets (2600mg) March 23. Felt sore for about 2 days and had some bruising but I was hitting the gym a week later.

Blood test 2 (May 3) T2 1192, E2 61.2*
*1mg Armidex three times a week for three weeks. They had the pills mailed to me two days after they saw the E2 jump. Getting a follow up blood test early June.

Additional 1400mg of pellets inserted May 12.

I told the doctors I wanted to be around 1400-1500 t2 range and see what I feel like once they get the crazy E2 under control. No extra cost because I paid for a year service. 70% of which is covered by my insurance because my doctor is out of network.

I’m recently finished a V-Diet (actually in last week of transition) and my weight is 201, my waist was stubborn due to high E2 but I still lost 3 inches off it. My ankles feel better now too - I can squat for the first time with weight over 135 since I broke them. Put up 275 for reps today and for me that was a good sign.

Travel is part of my line of work and I’m gone for up to a month at a time. Pellets are my best option, and I’ve had only a positive experience. My doctor takes the time to discuss anything with me and makes sure I’m satisfied. I wish I could compare with creams or injections, but I like the hassle free nature of the pellets.

I posted a few years back about problems I was having with Testopel, like heavy bruising, some bleeding, etc. I am still receiving ten pellets every four months and am very happy with the results but a little frustrated with the discomfort. My endocrinologist was leaving me with bad scars, so I decided to change to a local urologist/surgeon.

Some of you doubted me last time I posted, so I have included a photo. Sorry to show my butt!

I am 32 years old, 6’, 225 lbs, with low body fat. I lift heavy and squat. My urologist tells me that testopel is meant for older men with little muscle and plenty of fat in their buttocks. A few days after the pellets are inserted, I can feel the pellets move up to the surface of the skin and form a slight ridge, which is very tender.

Any other in-shape guys have these problems with testopel?

I had one round of testopel at 12 pellets back in August 2012. I can STILL feel a small lump where they were inserted. I took the exact same picture as you, only my boxers were gray. When I would run, I felt like a hunk of flesh was trying to fall off my body. The worst part was that 12 pellets didn’t even get my T where it needed to be. I ended up having to supplement with androgel.

My mother works at a doctors office with many older men getting these. They love them. I hated them. They also heavily aromatased to E2 with me.

I’m 31. 6’1" 215lbs. 17%BF. For what it’s worth, I think you’d be much better off going with a different delivery method. Self-injecting sub-q in the thigh is no big deal.

I had testopel implants exactly two months ago. The site healed nicely and then about a month ago at the site of the incision, a bump popped up and then burst. It has continued to heal and then cycle bump to leaking. I’m keeping a band aid on the site. There is no infection. I’ve been back to my Dr. He says, “sometimes that happens and he doesn’t know why”. I’m quite frustrated at this point. If this keeps up, I’ll go back to the injections. Has anyone had a similar experience?

I just received 14 pellets about 4 days ago and my bruising is about 4 times worse than yours. My entire butt cheek is covered in dark purple. Im about 5’10, 200 lbs with low body fat. I work out a lot and I’ve been reading that leaner people who receive the pellets have a lot more pain associated with the procedure and the healing. I’ve had significant pain. I have to sit down cautiously and I can’t even bend down to pick something up.

So far I’ve been extremely tired and in pain so I am not impressed. I really hope it starts to kick in soon and even out my levels. I’ve been taking testosterone shots my entire life. I am 28 and I have been receiving injections since I was 12. I’m not particularly a fan of getting stabbed once a week but so far that’s child’s play compared to the pain of this procedure.