No pointers from here on out, most the the time people hit the wall at week 8-9 because their body either acclimates or they aren’t eating enough. If you didn’t use the dbol to kickstart you could use it now but it would mostly just be water weight.
EDIT: Why does everyone seem to want to run HCG for pct alone? You should look up proper HCG protocols, personally I think it should be ran from day 1 all the way through.
I have run hcg from day 1 ???
My last Tren pin is tonight I just want to know if its best to taoer off the test or continue at 600 a week then straight off?
Holy shit, this is your first cycle hey? Ive been reading the posts, and I know youve heard it all already, my intention is not toflame you at all. But it seems you put all this planning together, without really having a solid plan. You’ve been changing your doses week to week?
I am just starting my first cycle, and simply am running test E and Dbol. I feel like you have over thought it, and are still over analyzing. Finish your test, train hard. And good luck man. I hope you are happy with the end result
Sam fuck what ever these people are saying, for a safe first cycle you have done a very good job with your planning. Yes, test is what causes a lot of sides when used at 500+, so keeping that low and stacking it with tren you will get the same anabolic benefits if you just ran 500mg of test alone. You will enjoy this cycle, although it will take a while for the long estered tren to take effect. The peptides are a great idea, if you are firing up your first one you might as well take advantage of other variables for growth. Good job planning your first cycle, you covered everything well.
Thanks Duhast I wanted to get the most out of it and hit all the variables so I could educate myself at the same time because research can only tell you so much. What do you think of tapering vs going straight off test at same dosage. What sort of cycles do you run mate you are a big old boy in your pic.
Lift up put down no worries mate criticism helps me learn just as much as praise. I know I have swapped dosage around a bit but its because it is quite an experimental cycle I wanted to see how low test and average tren feels then I jumped the test so I will get a period of feeling high test and medium tren so I could see how long the enanthate takes in my body and which of these works for me with a 19nor as there are conflicting opinions on this.
I also ran peptides with the Tren based on an article I read about the synergistic effect of these on metrx and then I dropped these other than hcg which i run throughout so I can see the difference without these . The peptides don’t have the same delayed reaction as the enanthate oils so I could test just the ghrp the ghrp and ghrh then both with peg mgf and then just the mgf to test what I got out of these in different combinations.
I’m also running these peptides all together at the beginning of pct as I have read alot about them making it easier to hold onto gains and ease the crash of lh production. I want to feel educated in all the different pins and substances by the end of this cycle so my 2nd can be more consistent.
Well looks like you ended up making some gains Sam good job. I kind of forgot about this thread and just checked in today and read everything, so I will try give you a summary of what I noticed from yours and others posts (keep in mind I am a newbie as yourself but I personally like critiques so I can research different options, hope you do as well).
I am just wrapping up a test e dbol cycle, and I noticed the dbol right away but the test until about week 5 to notice and week 6 to really kick in ( feels like my triceps are going to rip off of my arms lol). So I can understand your frustration initially with not noticing anything of note initially(test wise dbol kicks in quick), but it will inevitably kick in as you have noticed. I personally went with a simple dbol 30mg 4weeks test e 500mg 10 week cycle and was happy with the results, I gained about 15 lbs, I was hoping for more but I kind of did a recomp at the end and my body fat is lower than when I started ( mainly because with my schedule I could not maintain my calories).
I think you may have benefited from something simple like this as well and you possibly introduced to may compounds for a first cycle, especially for a young person like yourself that is not intent on blast cruising. As far as people saying that all of your gains will diminish once off the juice is b.s. imo. I have ran a couple of oral only cycles, have gained 15 lbs lost 5-8 lbs and kept the rest without any pct or going on again for a year.
I think doublelung made a good analogy of it being like a wall that you build up and tear down. At the start of the cycle your wall will be at the lowest and at the peak the highest. Hopefully after pct and a couple months of regular lifting you end up somewhere in the middle of where you started and your peak. Yes they are right in that gains will diminish but cycling will add much more muscle mass over time as long as you stay in the gym then not using anything.
I personally loved my first proper cycle and will do many more but for now I will be cycling as I am only 30. I believe you should do the same as young as you are, I see you are very eager to jump in judging by all of the initial compounds but slow and steady wins the race bro. Do you really want to be on trt from your 20’s until you die? Good luck on the rest of your cykill.
did you have to adjust your ai, at anytime throughout the cycle? I found that the most difficult thing to pin down. At first I believe with the dbol and test which both convert to estrogen I was to low at .25 eod as I felt like a water balloon. Then after a couple of weeks on just test my joints got a little ache on .25 eod. So definitely something I noticed with different compounds is that it is hard to dial in.
Cheers mate ye made some gains but they have slowed down a bit now unfortunately so gonna major up my cals ye I’m gonna leave it for 6 months before i cycle again and i think with everything i learnt from this one i have some good ideas for a consistent 2nd cycle, glad you did well of your cycle mate.
Sam, I am poor so I run test at 500mg and tren at 500mg. No ancillaries, no peptides, ect. This is not by choice, this is what I can afford and local availability here in Kentucky.
Not a lot of people bodybuilding in my area, and the ones that are have smaller natty physiques. Nothing wrong with being natural, but the gains we look for are superphysiological without help. I would love to run what you are running.
If I had the resources my ideal cycle would be 500mg test a week, 500 equipoise a week, 500mg tren enanthate a week, and 500mg of masteron e a week. I would use cabergone and arimidex to block conversion to estrogen whilst on. As far as tapereing and coming off cold. As far as tapering off, what I would do is simply stop the tren two weeks before you stop the test so that clears out. It takes longer for a nor19 to clear than test alone. if you chose to taper I would try it with prop, but I never taper. ifg1r3 is good post cycle to help keep gains, as well as your normal ancillaries and hcg if at hand. once again, that isn’t an option for me but I hope it is for you.
[photo]39778[/photo] lat spread. im running 500 test e 500 tren e. easy good to go lean masser combo.
Why would you run nolva and clomid at the same time? lol
@duhats234 Sounds good mate so I assume you don’t get any estrogen related sides then if you don’t use the ancillaries, I didn’t find the HCG to be too expensive as an addition really but I suppose if its hard to source that doesn’t help.
I’d quite like to run EQ and masteron but I cant get masteron E so I’m thinking EQ , primo E and test E for my next cycle, lots of oil to load though as I can only get the EQ and primo E 100mg per ml.
@cjackson25 Because loads of people run them together and they are two different types of drugs that work in different ways it seems a common misconception that they are the same as far as I read anyway unless you know better?
So quick update just finished week 10 and I have gained 9lb my training partner however has gained 21lb on the same cycle but he did weigh 23lb less than me to start with and had a lot more room for growth. We now have two weeks of pinning test, two weeks of HCG and then PCT so I thought I’d run the plan past you all from this week until the end and see if anyone has any pointers.
Week 11-12 Test 300mg x2 , HCG 250IU x 3 , Adex 0.5mg x 2 per week
Week 13 HCG 250IU x 3 , Adex 0.5mg x 2 per week
Week 14 HCG 250IU x 2 , Adex 0.5mg x 2 , HMG 75IU x 2 per week
Week 15 100mg Clomid , 40mg Nolva per day
100mcg Ipamorelin , 100mcg MOD GRF , 200mcg HGH Fragment x 2 per day
IGF LR3 50mcg post workout
Week 16 50mg Clomid , 30mg Nolva per day
100mcg Ipamorelin , 100mcg MOD GRF , 200mcg HGH Fragment x 2 per day
PEG MGF 200mcg post workout
Week 17 50mg Clomid , 20mg Nolva per day
100mcg Ipamorelin , 100mcg MOD GRF , 200mcg HGH Fragment x 2 per day
PEG MGF 200mcg post workout
Week 18 50mg Clomid , 10mg Nolva per day
Week 19 25mg Clomid
Is that aggressive enough? What sort of losses should we expect during PCT?
From the end of week 19 I’m leaving 12 weeks for normalisation before my next cycle, is that long enough?
Good job on your first cycle bro. I do think you over thought things a bit, but most do when they spend hours reading contrasting reviews on the net searching for the best avenue. If i would of caught this earlier my 2cence would of been 2 run your final dose Test E600mg / Tren E300mg for 10 weeks and just the Test for last 2. Most the people advocating baby doses of gear, or worried of shut down and sides look like shit and just copy and paste from others that do.
They have no clue. Any body that looks impressive knows this. I believe the user should have had a fair few years under the iron before use, be knowledgeable and sensible but that aint everyone. Tren on a first cycle??? Wish i did 
Ever since i met TREN ACE Lean gains is all ill ever do. Again, congrats, lift smart and ask some well knows users or guys that look impressive next time round. Not just info online.
Nakahhh
Cheers Nakahh in hindsight I can see all your comments are true and although I didn’t get a massive amount of gains this cycle it gave me a really good practical education in aas use because you can only learn so much reading I guess. Only thing left to test is are the peptides worth it in pct because my verdict of them was that they aren’t worth it during cycle. The Tren was impressive and I’m glad I gave it ago think I am explore more milder compounds at higher dosages and then coming back to it.
I’m already planning my cycle as I’m going to get the gear in after this pct leave it 3 months of normalisation and then crack on am thinking of doing pretty much what you have said and simplifying it to test 500 12 weeks frontloaded 1 week bold 600 10 weeks frontloaded 2 weeks with hcg 250IU 3 x per week and adex 0.5mg 3 x per week what you think mate?
I think its a decent second run bro. That or a test/deca combo either are great stack. If you wanted leaner gains other than watching your food I’d add maybe 300mg Tren ace a week. BUT i have very little sides on this other than weird vivid dreams. As for the HCG, Me and the Nabba/UKBBF Competitors I know don’t run it during cycle. Only afterwards. Your sending your body 2 different orders with test and HCG at same time. Its only a 12 week cycle i’d finish it then start hcg.
Nakahhh PT
So do you run hcg to bring everything working again between last test pins and pct then?
Reason i went with the bold test combo was to avoid another 19nor like tren or deca cause wanted to see what it feels like without them sides the tren for me was good but i think it limited my gains by killing my appetite i have never struggled eating before so it was hard to overcome.
I’m also looking at bold for how it is easier to keep gains because i have just had a bit of devastation last week and lost 10 pounds while still on the test i got really ill and just couldn’t eat for few days so am now trying to munch out and get a weight bounce back before pct or i could out of this cycle with nothing in only 4 pounds heavier than when i started now. I am gutted.
EQ/BOLD will deffo make you hungary. But 2 be fair im starving on most legit gear as I train longer and more frequent increasing protein synthesis. I wake up starving everyday even on tren but im about 220lbs 9-10%bf Your doses will have a direct effect on this also. Don’t be to down about the weight loss. If you wasn’t eating and you were ill you would have lost a shit load of water and glycogen and that will soon come back with few days of good carbs. Yeah run the hcg after last jab for as long as needed.
Best cycle ive run to date for lean gains was Tren/Prop/Masteron. I ate like crazy, trained like mad and within a month was already 6-10lbs heavier at a lower Bf. Ended up 12lbs total after pct quite leaner. I will never bulk again. What do you want from your next cycle?
Do you think muscle loss would have been stopped while still on the test then even though i wasn’t taking in protein or training when ill?
Well I’m probably going to be around 185lb and 12 percent body fat when I start the next cycle and my goal is 200lb 8 percent body fat so I would be pretty happy if i could do that on one more cycle but of it takes two no biggy, am think of running the test and bold first and keeping in mind a test and primo for the next one if I finish up bit short on weight and body fat still a little too high to finish off what you think?
I would rather stay away from deca and tren for now run a few milder ones and then come back to them to take it to next level. What height are you at 220lb then?