[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
No I do it in my university laboratory myself, as many samples as many times as I want :-).
SB[/quote]
lucky guy! It cost me like �£250 for mine![/quote]
Why dont you go through the NHS?
SB
[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
No I do it in my university laboratory myself, as many samples as many times as I want :-).
SB[/quote]
lucky guy! It cost me like �?�£250 for mine![/quote]
Why dont you go through the NHS?
SB[/quote]
they told me to fuck off. Flat out refused to test anything except my T, wouldn’t even test my E.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
No I do it in my university laboratory myself, as many samples as many times as I want :-).
SB[/quote]
lucky guy! It cost me like �??�?�£250 for mine![/quote]
Why dont you go through the NHS?
SB[/quote]
they told me to fuck off. Flat out refused to test anything except my T, wouldn’t even test my E.[/quote]
If you are selective with your timing on getting your t levels checked and they come back low, then they will probably be more open to checking lh, fsh and estradiol. This was my scenario, they wouldn’t check e2 for me however and only checked prolactin and a couple others after I told them I was going to self-medicate since I had low t that they were unwilling to treat. You Americans don’t know how good you’ve got it! 
yeah that probably would’ve worked but they said it’d be weeks before they could test my T, and then another couple of weeks for the results and I didn’t fancy the wait just for them to tell me my T was fine and not check anything else.
[quote]juice20jd wrote:
[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
It does not say how long they administered T WITH Clomiphene as my institution does not have full access to the article. Though it does state T was administered for 4 days WITHOUT Clomiphene and saw a reduction of LH by 40%, reduction of 60% with E and 35% with DHT. So suppression wise it looks like this E>T>DHT, Dht being the least suppressive.
In theory, yes it looks like one can stay on double the natural output of his OWN T production and see no suppression (although a long-term study for this is warranted).
The dose of Clomid was not mentioned in the abstract either.
SB[/quote]
exactly why i will use masteron, or a test mast ratio, in any future tapers or low dose bridge or pseudo recovery phase.[/quote]
It would be the dream indeed to use 100mg weekly with no suppression thanks to Masteron or Clomid or Nolva. Nolva would work as well right?
This cycle I used HCG for the first time, and after not even 4 weeks of a 50mg/50mg Test/Masteron stasis, + Nolva starting the 3rd week, I feel I can just use Nolva only for a few more weeks and be fully off already. I used to do a 5-6 week stasis + 3 week taper. It works but I hate the long time it takes to be really off.
I think the real magic in Prisoner’s protocol is the stasis part, not the taper, if one uses Nolva or Clomid after the stasis. Using Masteron/Test instead of Test only helps too. And I’ve just discovered the magic of HCG on cycle. The next weeks will tell but wow things are going good. My recuperation is shit but my libido (and mood) is still way up
Not so sure if Nolva would elicit the same results, there hasnt been any studies with Nolva. Glad your taper is going well.
My one is kind of a rollercoaster, some days I feel great and some days I feel like shit.
My energy is really down and libido is gone.
On 20mg Nolva 25mg Clomid ED.
SB
Stay strong!
My PCT is doing good so far, but I DO lose a lot of lean mass, recuperation is shit, less drive, etc.
I gage success for the PCT by comparing it that what I think it would been had I not taken anything, and in that sense, I think I’m BETTER than I would have been. But it’s still a far cry from the feeling, drive and results I had on cycle. I want to be clear on that part.
I guess my expectations are low, or realistic. I’m an older dude, and I still don’t need TRT even though I’d feel better and keep more mass on it than being 100% off. I don’t like being on drugs all the time, that’s why I do it this way. My last 2 off cycles have been kind of “tests” to see if I do need TRT, and so far so good, I don’t. It will happen eventually, and I do often feel the urge to use something to keep my muscle mass, but hey, it’s the price to pay by doing it my way.
Glad yours is still going well SwD.
Mine is OK but I am really pissed off with the lack of libido and bitchiness. I still have morning wood but no libido. Still on 20mg Nolva and 50mg Clomid.
Getting bad night sweats, really bad night sweats abit worse then Tren. Im guessing the oestrogenic effects of the SERMS.
Anyone think it would be a good idea to incorporate low-dose adex in aswell?
SB
I thought you were a mega over responder to adex? Maybe some asin instead. Don’t want to tank that E
I am definetly an over-responder to Adex. Cant really get a hold of any aromasin tbh and have shit loads of pharma-adex.
SB
[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
I am definetly an over-responder to Adex. Cant really get a hold of any aromasin tbh and have shit loads of pharma-adex.
SB[/quote]
Well, then time to get creative. Crush the pill into dust, then dissovle it in alcohol(actually, BBB suggested this here Dissolving Adex? - Pharma - Forums - T Nation). Do the math, see what fits you.
[quote]niksamaras wrote:
[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
I am definetly an over-responder to Adex. Cant really get a hold of any aromasin tbh and have shit loads of pharma-adex.
SB[/quote]
Well, then time to get creative. Crush the pill into dust, then dissovle it in alcohol(actually, BBB suggested this here Dissolving Adex? - Pharma - Forums - T Nation). Do the math, see what fits you. [/quote]
Thanks for that, ill have a look.
Will commence adex therapy from tomorrow after my blood has been taken, tbh today I feel quite good, like I said its ups and downs.
SB
UPDATE:
Still running 20mg nolva and 50mg Clomid ED.
Feeling near enough normal now, testes are increasing in volume also.
Morning wood is constant and erections are rock solid.
Tomorrow I am going to get my blood results, I think I will see elevated LH/FSH and maybe elevated test also.
Will go for another blood test in roughly a months time.
Sold on the taper.
SB
this is very good stuff.
If your blood work comes back ok I’m going to run like a year long blast with a taper! Lol
I’ve never read so much about a guys penis until I read this thread haha. Regardless awesome information in here and looks like everything is going better nice!
[quote]optheta wrote:
I’ve never read so much about a guys penis until I read this thread haha. Regardless awesome information in here and looks like everything is going better nice![/quote]
Haha! All in the name of helping my fellow AAS-(ab)users ;).
SB
OK NOW THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR!
I have printed off my Bloods…
I have been off for roughly 5 weeks now.
OK so in February my LH and FSH were <0.1 out of the normal range for each.
Bloods from April 2013:
Serum Testosterone: 14.70 nmol/L (6.10 - 27.10)
LH: 9.5 IU/L (1.20 - 8.60 IU/L) HIGH
FSH: 7.8 IU/L (0.00 - 19.00)
Oestradiol: 83 pmol/L (Male 73 - 275 pmol/L)
Prolactin: 61 mIU/L (56.00 - 278.00)
The taper has indeed worked, and amazingly I must add. In the past it has taken me up to 5 months to recover after going cold turkey, now I am recovered in 5 WEEKS!
I didnt even need to use the Triptorelin.
Would like to thank the people who supported me. And Walkway, “the taper makes no logical sense at all”, the results speak for themselves.
I will continue to run the SERMS while tapering off them and do another round of bloods in a couple of months to top the range for my Test.
SB
excellent stuff my man.
Could you please give us the cliff notes of what you did, timings, dosages etc?
Yes I can.
The supplements I used (everyday) were:
Vitamin D3 = 10,000iu
Vitamin C = 1000mg
Vitamin E = 1000iu
Multivits
Fish oil (sometimes)
ZMA before sleep
I started my cycle in June 2012 (was already shut down from previous cycle and thought TRT is best bet).
So June till September I ran Test and Dbol at doses I cannot recall but they were not consistent.
September till November I ran Test, Tren and Mast, using the low test high tren approach (worked a charm).
Came off the Tren start of Nov and continued Test prop at high doses alongside Anavar.
Dropped Var mid December and went on a cutter of Test P, Mast, T3 and Clen.
January time I came off cutting drugs and kept the Test Prop at roughly 70mg EOD.
February 6th 2013 is when I started my taper:
Wk 1 28mg EOD
Wk 2 26mg EOD (this is not 26mg of Test Prop, it is a mix of Test and Mast)
Wk 3 22mg EOD (started Nolva 20mg ED and dropped hCG to 250iu 2x/wk instead of 500iu)
Wk 4 18mg EOD Prop/Mast
Wk 5 15 mg EOD (dropped hCG)
Wk 6-8 20mg Nolva ED
Wk 8 150mg Clomid, 40mg Nolva
Wk 9-10 50mg Clomid, 40mg Nolva
Wk 10-now 50mg Clomid, 20mg Nolva
Last pin was 5th March 2013 (wk 5), I was supposed to continue the taper but I missed a pin by 3 days and thought fuck it im going to stay off now.
Started clomid therapy 18th March 2013 at 150mg ED with 40mg Nolva ED, this was too much so within a week I dropped it to 50mg Clomid 40mg Nolva.
Overall I have lost a fair amount of size but I must stress that I took up a sport which is cardio intense, had I not I would have kept around 80% of my gains.
Overall weight loss = 1.5kg.
SB
SB
1 Like
[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
OK NOW THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR!
I have printed off my Bloods…
I have been off for roughly 5 weeks now.
OK so in February my LH and FSH were <0.1 out of the normal range for each.
Bloods from April 2013:
Serum Testosterone: 14.70 nmol/L (6.10 - 27.10)
LH: 9.5 IU/L (1.20 - 8.60 IU/L) HIGH
FSH: 7.8 IU/L (0.00 - 19.00)
Oestradiol: 83 pmol/L (Male 73 - 275 pmol/L)
Prolactin: 61 mIU/L (56.00 - 278.00)
The taper has indeed worked, and amazingly I must add. In the past it has taken me up to 5 months to recover after going cold turkey, now I am recovered in 5 WEEKS!
I didnt even need to use the Triptorelin.
Would like to thank the people who supported me. And Walkway, “the taper makes no logical sense at all”, the results speak for themselves.
I will continue to run the SERMS while tapering off them and do another round of bloods in a couple of months to top the range for my Test.
SB[/quote]
Awesome news! Glad it worked out well for you! When are you jumping back on??