Test Results

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
1

I am a long time lurker that decided to join up after reading the over 35 forum and the threads about TRT.

I recently got my Test checked. (My wife works at the doctor’s office where the results are) My results were:

Total Test - 330
Free Test - 9.44

Apparently I am in the ‘normal’ range. But I certainly don’t feel like it. I say that because I have tested positive for the ADAM test (which is why I decided to have my Testosterone checked). I am 32 y/o.

I have for the longest time struggled with staying motivated, thinking clearly, remembering things, lack of energy, and lack of libido. I have worked out for a little over 2 years now and have not gotten much stronger in the past year despite being on a solid program and eating enough. I have to admit that I have a good bit of stress in my life (3 small children), but I don’t think that would be the cause of everything.

The reason I posted this was so that I could get opinions on my lab results and any suggestions on what I could do from here. I am not so concerned with getting any therapy if I could just feel better in life and stay motivated.

Thanks for any replies.

2

Personally, I wouldn’t call below the midrange normal for a 32 year old, but most doctors don’t really give a rat’s ass about testosterone so will call anything in range “normal.” I’m 56 and my pre-therapy testosterone was about where you’re at.

You need to have your estradiol checked. Many guys “in range” for testosterone have the symptoms of low T because of relatively high E.

If you’re carrying excess body fat, your first priority should be losing it. Fat produces both estradiol and aromatase and controlling these two is just as important as having decent T levels.

I’d look into aromatase inhibition if I were you. It will have to be self-administered, so study up first. You don’t want to be playing with your hormones without knowing what you’re doing.

3

Need a more complete picture. Yes, you’re low, but that’s not likely to be all that is going on.

If you are not taking any testosterone or AAS (for whatever purpose), what are you

Your height, weight and BF%
LH
FSH
Estradiol (ultra sensitive assay)
SHBG
TSH
Free and Total T4
Free and Total T3
any Thyroid antibodies?
Cholesterol, Triglycerides, HDL, LDL
Liver and kidney function tests

The body is complex, and all these parts interplay. If your doctor is not willing to order thorough testing, you might want to find another.

Nevertheless, your test results are not optimal. Stress from kids will certainly be part of the reason. Tell us more if you can.

4

[quote]happydog48 wrote:
Personally, I wouldn’t call below the midrange normal for a 32 year old, but most doctors don’t really give a rat’s ass about testosterone so will call anything in range “normal.” I’m 56 and my pre-therapy testosterone was about where you’re at.

You need to have your estradiol checked. Many guys “in range” for testosterone have the symptoms of low T because of relatively high E.

If you’re carrying excess body fat, your first priority should be losing it. Fat produces both estradiol and aromatase and controlling these two is just as important as having decent T levels.

I’d look into aromatase inhibition if I were you. It will have to be self-administered, so study up first. You don’t want to be playing with your hormones without knowing what you’re doing.[/quote]

Thanks for the info.

Apparently the doctor just looked at the report and it said ‘normal’ so that was it. I hate to push it here for fear that they think I am looking for something to help me out since I workout. I want to be taken seriously. I just think that he doesn’t know that much about the subject. But it’s hard to say to him, “I heard on the Internet…”.

I took some Novedex XT a few months back. I believe it is an aromatase inhibitor. When I was on it there was a period of a week or two where I felt great. Can’t be sure if that was because of the supp or not though.

5

[quote]bigdawg011 wrote:
Need a more complete picture. Yes, you’re low, but that’s not likely to be all that is going on.

If you are not taking any testosterone or AAS (for whatever purpose), what are you

Your height, weight and BF%
LH
FSH
Estradiol (ultra sensitive assay)
SHBG
TSH
Free and Total T4
Free and Total T3
any Thyroid antibodies?
Cholesterol, Triglycerides, HDL, LDL
Liver and kidney function tests

The body is complex, and all these parts interplay. If your doctor is not willing to order thorough testing, you might want to find another.

Nevertheless, your test results are not optimal. Stress from kids will certainly be part of the reason. Tell us more if you can.[/quote]

I am not taking anything. Haven’t taken anything ever.

I am 5’10"
195 lbs
BF 18% (just a guess)

The other things mentioned I don’t have a clue about. I was told that my thyroid was ‘fine’ as was everything else that the doc tested for.

I do live a relatively stressful life. Lately it’s been more stressful. We have 3 children (ages 6, 4, 2) that are very demanding. My wife and I both work and it’s a lot of stress on us when we get off work, pick them up, make dinner, baths, etc. We are usually in bed around 10PM and awake around 6AM. My job is stressful at times (IT field).

I don’t want it to seem like it’s all just stress though. We all have stress. What made me want to get the test was that I was researching things that could be the cause of me not being able to focus on anything or stay motivated. I have struggled with this for a few years now. Gets worse every day. I have many times set out to study for certifications only to get side-tracked and not interested in it. Forgetting things is the norm for me. Not being able to focus at work is too.

So I didn’t start out wanting TRT. I just ‘happened’ upon the subject. I tested positive for the ADAM test and went from there.

I have been frustrated with not making much progress in the gym over the past year and half. I have not progressed beyond any PRs that I set over a year ago despite being on a sound full body 3 days per week program that focuses on bench, squats, deads, and rows.

6

Jason, it sounds like you are burned out. Join the club. You’re stressed. We all do have stress, and if we don’t support our bodies, the stress will do us in.

Regarding your workouts, have you taken a week or so off recently?

Regarding your thyroid, if the doctor did not test everything I listed, he was not thorough (which is typical). Would you mind posting your results?

You will have to advocate for yourself to get help. Don’t let a lazy doctor get between you and what you need.

Were you doing Starting Strength, by any chance? If you have not progressed, you need to take a little break, then change your routine. Sounds like your body has adapted and is no longer stimulated by your workouts.

However, if your adrenals and thyroid are burned out, that is an underlying problem.

What I have done to help myself in this area:

  1. Drink 16oz water with 1/2tsp sea salt as soon as I get up
  2. Take Ester-C vitamin 1000mg twice a day
  3. Get myself off of coffee and onto green tea
  4. Eat enough, and eat healthy
  5. Take a break when I need it, even if just some relaxing breathing during the work day
  6. Get on TRT
  7. Get my thyroid thoroughly checked out, now I’m on Armour Thyroid because TSH was not optimal (too high), total T4 and T3 were both low, and thyroid antibodies were found.

Will your doctor test cortisol and ACTH stimulation?

You might want to read up on Adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism, at least just to get educated and help you determine what might be going on in you.

If there are stressors you can remove, remove them.

If you have any questions, ask. I hope this was helpful to you. I’m speaking from my own experience.

7

[quote]bigdawg011 wrote:
Jason, it sounds like you are burned out. Join the club. You’re stressed. We all do have stress, and if we don’t support our bodies, the stress will do us in.

Regarding your workouts, have you taken a week or so off recently?

Regarding your thyroid, if the doctor did not test everything I listed, he was not thorough (which is typical). Would you mind posting your results?

You will have to advocate for yourself to get help. Don’t let a lazy doctor get between you and what you need.

Were you doing Starting Strength, by any chance? If you have not progressed, you need to take a little break, then change your routine. Sounds like your body has adapted and is no longer stimulated by your workouts.

However, if your adrenals and thyroid are burned out, that is an underlying problem.

What I have done to help myself in this area:

  1. Drink 16oz water with 1/2tsp sea salt as soon as I get up
  2. Take Ester-C vitamin 1000mg twice a day
  3. Get myself off of coffee and onto green tea
  4. Eat enough, and eat healthy
  5. Take a break when I need it, even if just some relaxing breathing during the work day
  6. Get on TRT
  7. Get my thyroid thoroughly checked out, now I’m on Armour Thyroid because TSH was not optimal (too high), total T4 and T3 were both low, and thyroid antibodies were found.

Will your doctor test cortisol and ACTH stimulation?

You might want to read up on Adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism, at least just to get educated and help you determine what might be going on in you.

If there are stressors you can remove, remove them.

If you have any questions, ask. I hope this was helpful to you. I’m speaking from my own experience.[/quote]

Wow. Thanks for the info.

Yes, I just took 10 days off from working out. Started back this past Monday.

Yes, I started out doing Starting Strength. I’ve done HST, 5x5, and a 4 day body part split since. Currently I am doing a Texas Method program. Mondays - Front Squats, Bench, Rows (Volume Day). Wednesdays - Front Squats (80% of Monday), OH press, deads. Fridays - Bench, Front Squats (Intensity Day), Chins, Dips. I do this for about 4-6 weeks and take a week off depending on how over-reaching I am. I am usually pretty good at noticing when I need to take a break or lower intensity.

I just usually feel worn out. Not sleepy but my body is tired. It’s the same feeling of not being fully recovered from a workout. But that’s not the case because I feel that way from week 1 when volume and intensity is low.

I’ll see about getting the results back and I’ll post them if I can. Not sure if the doctor will test for cortisol and ACTH stimulation?

I obviously have a lot of learning.

EDIT: I just read some symptoms of adrenal fatigue and a lot of them sound like me. If you have this problem would it inhibit Testosterone?

8

[quote]jason_bh wrote:
I am a long time lurker that decided to join up after reading the over 35 forum and the threads about TRT.

I recently got my Test checked. (My wife works at the doctor’s office where the results are) My results were:

Total Test - 330
Free Test - 9.44

Apparently I am in the ‘normal’ range. But I certainly don’t feel like it. I say that because I have tested positive for the ADAM test (which is why I decided to have my Testosterone checked). I am 32 y/o.

I have for the longest time struggled with staying motivated, thinking clearly, remembering things, lack of energy, and lack of libido. I have worked out for a little over 2 years now and have not gotten much stronger in the past year despite being on a solid program and eating enough. I have to admit that I have a good bit of stress in my life (3 small children), but I don’t think that would be the cause of everything.

The reason I posted this was so that I could get opinions on my lab results and any suggestions on what I could do from here. I am not so concerned with getting any therapy if I could just feel better in life and stay motivated.

Thanks for any replies.[/quote]

These are the kinds of threads that make me sad and angry simultaneously. 330 for Total is not normal. Whoever decided on these terms is a moron who liked trapping us in straightjackets, because the docs want you to be ‘normal’. Evil, pure evil…

You should have Total of at least 1200 ng/dl. You should feel like you want to tear into some weights, or kick the shit out of a heavy bag or sparring partner, then fuck your honey a couple of times at least.

I swear the people who run this world want us all to be metrosexuals, who run and hide at the first hint of a raised voice. Jeezzzz…

9

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

These are the kinds of threads that make me sad and angry simultaneously. 330 for Total is not normal. Whoever decided on these terms is a moron who liked trapping us in straightjackets, because the docs want you to be ‘normal’. Evil, pure evil…

You should have Total of at least 1200 ng/dl. You should feel like you want to tear into some weights, or kick the shit out of a heavy bag or sparring partner, then fuck your honey a couple of times at least.

I swear the people who run this world want us all to be metrosexuals, who run and hide at the first hint of a raised voice. Jeezzzz…

[/quote]

I like the way you think.

10

[quote]ontothenext wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

These are the kinds of threads that make me sad and angry simultaneously. 330 for Total is not normal. Whoever decided on these terms is a moron who liked trapping us in straightjackets, because the docs want you to be ‘normal’. Evil, pure evil…

You should have Total of at least 1200 ng/dl. You should feel like you want to tear into some weights, or kick the shit out of a heavy bag or sparring partner, then fuck your honey a couple of times at least.

I swear the people who run this world want us all to be metrosexuals, who run and hide at the first hint of a raised voice. Jeezzzz…

I like the way you think.[/quote]

Me too

11

If your family practice doctor doesn’t want to do a full set of tests, see if you can get an appointment with an endocrinologist at a local hospital. I see 3 oncologists and 1 endocrinologist and they see to it that I am on the proper dose of synthroid and androgel.

If a particular doctor won’t check things properly, it is time to see if you can find someone who will. I was kind of surprised when I got a detailed letter from my endocrinologist explaining my test results and listing exactly what supplements he wanted me to be taking and telling me to get to exercising 3 to 5 times per week. He sent a copy to my oncology doctors and thanked them and me for letting him participate in my health care.

12

Update: My wife said the doctor (she works there) did admit that I was on the low end. She went on to say that he didn’t say that he wouldn’t try some injections. My concern is starting injections and not knowing why my test is low. I don’t have a lot of money for other testing right now though.

At least there’s a change in his thinking originally from saying that I was in the normal range. I think he was just going by what the lab said was normal on the chart. The lab says that 240 - 900 is normal. So I guess that’s what I am fighting for.

I wouldn’t mind feeling like I want to pound some weight, kick a heavy bag, etc. I haven’t felt like that for years. If that’s ‘normal’ I sure wouldn’t mind being normal. :slight_smile:

13

[quote]jakeman124 wrote:
ontothenext wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

These are the kinds of threads that make me sad and angry simultaneously. 330 for Total is not normal. Whoever decided on these terms is a moron who liked trapping us in straightjackets, because the docs want you to be ‘normal’. Evil, pure evil…

You should have Total of at least 1200 ng/dl. You should feel like you want to tear into some weights, or kick the shit out of a heavy bag or sparring partner, then fuck your honey a couple of times at least.

I swear the people who run this world want us all to be metrosexuals, who run and hide at the first hint of a raised voice. Jeezzzz…

I like the way you think.

Me too

[/quote]

Thanks, gents! I’ve had about 4 years of dealing with this shit. For many, HRT is fine and delivers pretty good results. For the rest of us, trying to convince a doctor that some bullshit low number is not normal, that results are what counts, that maybe some of us ACTUALLY DO need more than the norm, is like trying to score with Jessica Alba — it ain’t happenin’.

14

[quote]mej wrote:
If your family practice doctor doesn’t want to do a full set of tests, see if you can get an appointment with an endocrinologist at a local hospital. I see 3 oncologists and 1 endocrinologist and they see to it that I am on the proper dose of synthroid and androgel.

If a particular doctor won’t check things properly, it is time to see if you can find someone who will. I was kind of surprised when I got a detailed letter from my endocrinologist explaining my test results and listing exactly what supplements he wanted me to be taking and telling me to get to exercising 3 to 5 times per week. He sent a copy to my oncology doctors and thanked them and me for letting him participate in my health care.[/quote]

Sounds like you found someone who’s somewhat better than my experience. Are you sure a tornado didn’t come there (to Kansas) and take you to Oz? ;D

15

[quote]jason_bh wrote:
Update: My wife said the doctor (she works there) did admit that I was on the low end. She went on to say that he didn’t say that he wouldn’t try some injections. My concern is starting injections and not knowing why my test is low. I don’t have a lot of money for other testing right now though.

At least there’s a change in his thinking originally from saying that I was in the normal range. I think he was just going by what the lab said was normal on the chart. The lab says that 240 - 900 is normal. So I guess that’s what I am fighting for.

I wouldn’t mind feeling like I want to pound some weight, kick a heavy bag, etc. I haven’t felt like that for years. If that’s ‘normal’ I sure wouldn’t mind being normal. :)[/quote]

Jason,

HRT can be expensive w/o insurance. Test Cyp is really cheap at Sam’s Club, but you’ll also need HCG (its cheap) and Arimidex (mega-expensive). If you have to pay for all this, buy Arim as a research chem from one of the legal labs.

Read anything by KSMan and HappyDog. Good info.

Don’t do Test alone, btw. It’ll just shut you down w/o the HCG.

16

[quote]jason_bh wrote:

I wouldn’t mind feeling like I want to pound some weight, kick a heavy bag, etc. I haven’t felt like that for years. If that’s ‘normal’ I sure wouldn’t mind being normal. :)[/quote]

That’s what I’m fucking talking about.

Either you make the decision to age and accept what comes along with it, or you do something about it… regardless of what laboratorial “ranges” say about what is normal or not.

17

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Jason,

HRT can be expensive w/o insurance. Test Cyp is really cheap at Sam’s Club, but you’ll also need HCG (its cheap) and Arimidex (mega-expensive). If you have to pay for all this, buy Arim as a research chem from one of the legal labs.

Read anything by KSMan and HappyDog. Good info.

Don’t do Test alone, btw. It’ll just shut you down w/o the HCG.

[/quote]

Please excuse my ignorance but what does HCG and Arimidex do? I have insurance but I am not sure if this would be covered or not.

Also, if I were to go on TRT, would an aromatase inhinbitor be wise?

18

[quote]jason_bh wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Jason,

HRT can be expensive w/o insurance. Test Cyp is really cheap at Sam’s Club, but you’ll also need HCG (its cheap) and Arimidex (mega-expensive). If you have to pay for all this, buy Arim as a research chem from one of the legal labs.

Read anything by KSMan and HappyDog. Good info.

Don’t do Test alone, btw. It’ll just shut you down w/o the HCG.

Please excuse my ignorance but what does HCG and Arimidex do? I have insurance but I am not sure if this would be covered or not.

Also, if I were to go on TRT, would an aromatase inhinbitor be wise?[/quote]

HCG keeps your balls from shutting down. If you do HRT a long time, they may shut off permanently.

Your body happily raises Estrogen to match any increase in Testosterone. Arim stop this from happening.

Any doctor who prescribes Test only really doesn’t know what he/she is doing. Since finding one who does is nearly impossible, get the Test from the doc, and ‘outsource’ for HCG and Arimidex/Ana.

Read all posts by KSMan and Happydog.

19

I want to help so please don’t take this the wrong way. First 3 workouts a week is doing your whole body 3 times every week. Second you have 3 small children that are very demanding and gives you stress. Third you work full time and my gues is that you are not self-employed so that adds more stress. Fourth because of points second and third, I bet you don’t get more than 8 hours sleep. I will not touch on nutrition because you don’t mention any of it, but it still is a factor.

That is a lot of things affecting you. In retrospect, before I started studying my Ph.D. I worked for a consulting company. I had the most stress ever, plus a wife and family commitments. Almost no sleep and had lousy eating habits. Training was just for getting some stress and my strenght was way down south. I did 2 workouts per week and could not recover.

Pass 4 years. No wife, no job, moved to another country and started studying again. Not overly demanding and I cook my own meals. My strenght improved so much that I work out 5 days per week with weights and 6 days per week of cardio not including the club’s sports activities every friday or other sporadic days.

My point with this is not to compare myself to you, but to show you that the factors that you think are not so important are actually VERY important when we talk about lifting and physique changes.

My suggestion, if you wish to take it is to change your workout to a 3 day per week split style. Something like this (warm-ups not included). It is low volume because of the reasons explained above. If you don’t like it there are plenty of other workouts here. I wanted to share one that was quick and that has been “field tested”.

Day 1:
Squats 3 x 10.
Rows 2 x 12.
Leg Raises. 2 sets max reps

Day 2:
Deadlift 2 x 8.
Chins up to 25 reps.
DB Curls 2 x 8

Day 3:
Dips 3 x 6 - 10.
Standing Press 2 x 12.
One-arm extensions 2x8

After you finish the workout go to the cardio section and do 20min of cardio. Then have your post-workout shake.

As for nutrition this web site has plenty of great articles and you would be wise to read Berardi’s 7 habits. But if you are regular here nutrition should be second nature. Just keep an eye for the fats as when we get old our metabolisms slow down and we need fewer calories to do the same metabolic processes.

Hope this helps my friend.

20

Okay, I won’t use the “one in a million” analogy again, but I am tempted to cut loose…
Hey!, sawadeekrob, isn’t this about HRT/TRT and guys whose bodies have quit working properly?
I realize you’re an educated man so, I know that you already know no amount of of diet and exercise will lifetime fix hypogonadism for almost any man on the planet. There have been a few men on this site that thru diet and exercise have improved both their lives and Testosterone levels, but once again they are rare. I’m not trashing your post, I’m just being honest for the guys that won’t respond to diet and exercise to not give them false hope.