I’ve been on TRT for 2 years now, HGH for 1 year. Both doctor prescribed.
TRT is 18 mg/day of Test C. TT is 1300 ng/dL, FT 25 ng/dL (9-25 range). Lipids, liver, hematocrit, etc…look great.
HGH is 2 iu/day, puts me around 250 ng/mL (range 50-330).
Physically it’s been boderline miraculous, but mentally/emotionally I feel a little flat. My depression is gone but it’s as if the highs have gone away with the lows. I feel extremely stable but maybe too much so, in the sense that I don’t really get excited about anything anymore.
I’m starting to think that the ultra-stable levels I’m getting from daily Test C injections are causing a desensitization of Dopamine receptors or something along those lines.
I’m thinking of trying Test Prop to see if a little more daily variation in my T levels could help with that. Does anyone have experience with Prop?
Haha I hear you. Most people probably think “so wait…what’s your problem?”.
But in a way I felt better pre-TRT. You know the excitement and enthusiasm you have for life when you’re young? The taste for adventure? I have less of that than I did pre-TRT, it’s very weird.
In every other metric I feel a lot better, but in that way I feel kind of flat and I wonder if it’s because my levels are too stable
Yeah, both directly and indirectly. Dosing as you are, I doubt you’d notice much difference. I noticed no difference myself, but that’s just me. Not one of the guys that I see who tried prop stayed with it.
Thanks for your perspective, that’s not what I was hoping to hear but realistically it’s probably what’s likely to happen (no/little change).
Is the “flat” feeling I’m talking about relatable at all to you? I saw an improvement across all other parameters but somehow feel no excitement for anything. No lows, no highs, just very stable
You could just try less frequent injections. Maybe try two a week and see if you feel better. Some seem to prefer less frequency and not only because of convenience.
That’s a good point. I did try 2x/week injections in the beginning and ended up with serious hypertension, bloating and headaches, but I was doing 160 mg/week total so maybe a lower dose on 2x/week would work
Any advice on transitioning from Test C to Test P?
Since I’m doing 18 mg/day Test C, I feel the equivalent would be around 16 mg/day Test P.
However I feel I should probably let the Test C leave my system for a bit before starting Test P, so I don’t end up with super high levels at the beginning of that transition.
I was thinking of waiting maybe 3-4 days of no injecting at all, and then starting Prop at 16 mg/day
@highpull anyway you could give me some advice on my trt protocol and issues I am having with it? I am getting bloodwork (sensitive E2) this week. It’s been pretty rocky and still feeling off. Switched a lot of stuff up which is probably some of it (mostly just dosing schedule). Been on for 3 months now. Thanks brother
I did cycles in the past of just anavar and prop but last year I tested low 290. Was having a host of issues (depression, bad anxiety, low libido, no morning wood for a few years, weight gain and zero energy) my dr Where I live approved me for replacement but didn’t treat it from lack of knowledge so I went to a clinic.
First clinic put me on 200mg of test cyp a week with 1 mg Arimidex. Dosed And split twice a week with both. I started to feel real good around week 3 but than my libido started to plummet.had a few night woods but then everything went away. I tested and my E2 came back at 9. Mind you prior to starting my number was at 11. The clinic was pretty lousy at getting back to me so i just stopped the Arimidex and I think what happened was a rebound. I’ve been with a new clinic now and they switched me to every other day dosing and told me to drop the AI. I’ve been on this protocol for about three weeks (havnt been taking an AI consistently since right after Christmas). I tried HCG but got some wild anxiety from it.
As of late I’ve been feeling horrible. Last week I think I got high E. Had crazy water retention (hands hurt to close) and what seemed like some panic attacks/ horrible sleep I took some AI but it didn’t change too much. Still feeling really anxiety ridden and my clinics have been pretty lousy at giving guidance. I should also mention that I have mild gyno from my past cycles when I was younger which was flaring up.
Libido is toasted. Havnt had good morning wood since I started (only a few times really). Just starting to get discouraged with it all.
IMO, this is not good medicine. It is just too much AI for many guys. Some will be fine, but many will have low E2 on that much adex. I just finished up a blast of 875 mg/wk Test, with 0.25 mg adex EOD (0.875 mg/wk). I was over range by double the top range for E2, but that is a lot more Test than TRT. If I did this on TRT, I would probably be single digit E2, or unreadable.
IMO, if they are going to start straight away with an AI (which is questionable as it might not be needed), it should be like 0.125 mg twice a week.
You likely just don’t feel good, because you have been doing cookie cutter protocols.
It will take a while to be stable enough to tell. The key to AI use if you need it (it seems like you maybe do), is to start very low, and titrate up. Wait about 4-6 weeks on a consistent protocol, then evaluate how you feel, and do blood work. You can probably just do a mini panel of TT, FT, and E2. If your TT and FT are top of range or higher, you likely want at least middle range E2, if it is top or over range, but you feel good, then leave it as is. You may just need a bit of E2 reduction, and that micro dose gets you to a good balance.
@mnben87 thanks for this in depth response man. Honestly my experience with these clinics has been horrible. They have given non of these responses.
I remember back a few years ago I ran test prob and var and felt the most amazing I ever have but some of that I take it was from the small anti arom properties of the var I believe.
This has just been a crap shoot so far and hoping to feel better soon. I’ve been feeling super anxiety ridden which is unlike me.
I am hoping that my blood work tomorrow will shed some light. Can’t rely on the clinics.
Given your history, I think I would take 60mg twice weekly. Since you are starting from the 200s, you may be one who does better at lower levels. You mentioned a history of gyno. Does that mean actual lumps or tenderness and puffiness?
Most that say they have gynecomastia have mastalgia, not gynecomastia. With a lower dose you may be able to avoid using an aromatase inhibitor. If needed, I would start with 0.1mg twice weekly.
Ultimately, you’ll likely need a different doctor.
I’ve noticed after 6 months of low T then going back to testosterone Enanthate 250mg, that weird flat mood is happening to me too. I am still trying to figure out why it is happening but I literally just started so I am going to wait a bit longer. I had stable levels on Sustanon at 500mg a week a long time ago, but when I would go down to 250 I felt more flat and not excited like I do now. I dont think its the stable blood levels though, because so many people have excellent results on consistent doses of long esters. If anything I think it has to do with low/ lower estrogen. One thing I do know is when estrogen is low your mood is flat as a board!
@highpull you could be right. My only reasoning for sticking at 200mg weekly at every other day injections is that is what my doctor recommended after switching to new clinic. He tested my levels (after two months on 200mg split twice a week) and my total T was only at 700 which he thought was still a bit low. He wanted me to wait another 8 weeks on new protocol and retest but I think my E2 is out of line now after stopping AI. Just haven’t been able to get a hold of them.
Yes it’s gyno. Hard lump under left nip. I’ve noticed them itching more and more painful here and there on top of just feeling depressed and shitty.
I just did sensitive E2 (already paid for it before you said not needed) TT, FT and prolactin BW today with lab corp and will have those results in two days. I will share them with you guys if that makes sense. I felt good for a while and the past three weeks have just been shitty.
Also if you don’t mind me asking. What would 0.01 ai equate to with the 1mg Arimidex pills I have ? Also thoughts on aromasin ?
700 3.5 days after injection is not low. That level is really solid as the daily peak for an athletic young male. Your next day peak is likely around 1700-2100.
