i think t follow this plan
total gear 30 ml test propionate
20 ml tren ace
1-7
eod 100mg tren ace
1-10
eod 100mg test prop
1-3 20mg superdroll or 1-5 100mg anadrol
should i take ai? how is the dosages i have make one more cycle with tren(-tren enanthate) but tren was fake so…
Aromatase Inhibitors are great for more than just water retention, I’ve read that estrogen is a carcinogen also, so along with acne, water retention, mood you could also be exposing yourself to cancer as a long term risk.
Just my opinion but I always run an AI from day 1 to just before pct, and usually tone it down after my last shot.
I’m not ba big proponet of AI for small cycle’s, but when I ran tren for the first time I crashed hard when I came off, and I was running a test/prop blend with similar dosage as your thinking of. I think having some around to take for a few weeks isn’t such a bad idea.
I usually run test only, or test and whinney, and never have any trouble without AI ( low dose cycles) but for me atleast the tren is hard on my system. I remember about 2 weeks after I came off, there was a puppy dog comercial on TV, and i started crying, ( true story) my emotions were all screwed up, my nipples were also really sensitive, but luckly I didn’t get any gyno. I wouldn’t run tren again without AI. On a plus, I got really great gains from tren/test blend. Goodluck !
To be completely honest you might really dislike having your test and tren at the same dose. I’ve read lots of people saying to either test high and tren low or tren high and test low. Something to do with them both fighting for the same receptors, I’m no rocket surgeon though so you might have to do your own research on this.
No offense to you personaly, but I hate people that repeat what they read somewhere, or heard somewhere, rather than what they know, or have learned from personal experiance. It defeats the whole purpose of strength boards and threads, where we’re all sharing our personal findings, so we can all learn from one another, reather than just rummor’s and gossip being repeated and spread around the internet.
the only thing I know for sure about ASAs after 20yrs is that everyone responds totaly differently, to everything. I personaly dropped 4 belt sizes, while remaining the exact same weight, as well as putting 40lbs on my bench, all from just 3 bottles of test / tren blend, and a 1ml shot EOD. I did get night sweats, and I did get mild panic atacks. I was also horny as a mother fucker while on, and completely limp for 3 weeks coming off. These are things that really happened to me, on a real cycle. Goodluck OP, hopefully you’ll get some more feed back from some more experianced user’s than myself.
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
No offense to you personaly, but I hate people that repeat what they read somewhere, or heard somewhere, rather than what they know, or have learned from personal experiance. It defeats the whole purpose of strength boards and threads, where we’re all sharing our personal findings, so we can all learn from one another, reather than just rummor’s and gossip being repeated and spread around the internet.
the only thing I know for sure about ASAs after 20yrs is that everyone responds totaly differently, to everything. I personaly dropped 4 belt sizes, while remaining the exact same weight, as well as putting 40lbs on my bench, all from just 3 bottles of test / tren blend, and a 1ml shot EOD. I did get night sweats, and I did get mild panic atacks. I was also horny as a mother fucker while on, and completely limp for 3 weeks coming off. These are things that really happened to me, on a real cycle. Goodluck OP, hopefully you’ll get some more feed back from some more experianced user’s than myself.[/quote]
I ran 500 tren and 350 test, experienced night sweats and some insomnia, nothing unbearable. I never had much ED coming off but it did shut me down for a long while. These are things that really happened to me, on a real cycle.
My belt size didnt change because I was lean going in, if anything I’d say it went from 34 to 36 (I’ve hovered in between for ages). My deads went from 440 to 545 and squat went 405 to 445. My bench has never been phenomenal but I’d think on that cycle I added about 20lbs (285-305).
EDIT: Also found this little tid bit from a well known online pharma review site
“Another thing, prolactin is estro dependent, so the test would tend to increase prolactin sides. And there is some evidence that anger/irritability/aggression on-cycle is actually more due to increased estrogen, rather than test. So I think that’s the mechanism behind test amplifying prolactin-induced gyno and anger, etc. It’s actually the resultant estrogen causing the problems. Thus, an AI is probably a good idea.”
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
No offense to you personaly, but I hate people that repeat what they read somewhere, or heard somewhere, rather than what they know, or have learned from personal experiance. It defeats the whole purpose of strength boards and threads, where we’re all sharing our personal findings, so we can all learn from one another, reather than just rummor’s and gossip being repeated and spread around the internet.
the only thing I know for sure about ASAs after 20yrs is that everyone responds totaly differently, to everything. I personaly dropped 4 belt sizes, while remaining the exact same weight, as well as putting 40lbs on my bench, all from just 3 bottles of test / tren blend, and a 1ml shot EOD. I did get night sweats, and I did get mild panic atacks. I was also horny as a mother fucker while on, and completely limp for 3 weeks coming off. These are things that really happened to me, on a real cycle. Goodluck OP, hopefully you’ll get some more feed back from some more experianced user’s than myself.[/quote]
This ^^^
Personally for me I have ran 1000mg of a Test and Tren 750-1000mg for 16 weeks and experience mild insomnia, night sweats, loss of cardio, and pure awesomeness. Right now I am running 800mg of Tren and 500mg of Test… Guess what same fucking sides with less strength gain in my opinion. Every one is different as Anytime has said. Lastly no offense but if you have not personally ran a drug then do not comment on its uses or recommend a cycle because you have no damn idea.
PS… I never use a AI.
Guess you skimmed straight over my post there Reed, but if the two of you were a little less bias to T-Nation you could use google to find out that I’m not the only person running or suggesting high tren and low test. It’s something that’s really come back up over the past year.
Yeah if you use google you can also fucking find people who worship a fucking flying spagetti monsters and people who think shoving foot balls up their ass is a good fucking idea. But you have no clue personally what the fuck your talking about from a personal stand point. You giving out your brothers friends cousins advice who heard it from a guy down the road who may or may not have any idea what’s he is talking about.
It doesn’t change the fact that if you have NOT PERSONALLY done it your self you probably should not comment. Once again I have personally ran all the options high Test Low Tren, Low Test High Tren and both at the same dose and can PERSONALLY say that what you told him is not always the case. I have had no benefit running my test lower than my tren.
Sure some guy from some where on some site has but, have you? No so dont comment about what is the best way to do something when you have no idea. If you had personally done what you said and had success with it I wouldn’t say a word other than what has worked for me but, your basically talking out of your ass.
LOL, I don’t know what happened here, but the goal was to help the OP, and we lost focus there somewhere. Claron, if your giving advice based on expieance great, and mabey we all missed that, and mabey your first advice was correct also, but you had mentioned you read it, so thats where all the confusion came from.
The point is, you could read on the inter net from 20 different people some great sounding advice, but who’s to say, they didn’t all get that advice all from the same bad sorce, this happens all the time, and really confuses beginer’s. Best to just stick to talking about what you’ve actually done.
Op, Reed popped in and gave some advice, from what I know he’s one of the most expieanced guys around here with regards to gear ( crazy strong as well ) he’s also really open about his usage, so if your still confused you may just want to go to his log, and ask him direct question’s, to avoid any cross advice, from differing people, not that it’s bad, but this is how it becomes confusing, better to just listen to one person you trust.
I’ve only ran tren the once, and gave you all the advice I could on the subject, as did Claron, but talking to someone thats run multiple cycles, might clear things up for you. Good luck
Reed, can’t believe you missed a chance to make fun of my crying episode 
your slipping. Later
Lol man I would have before but I won’t lie when I went up to 2000mg of Test my E2 got pretty elevated and I was big emotional teddy bear lol. I remember almost crying at the end of 2 or 3 movies that were not even freaking sad movies lol. That’s why I decided to cut that cycle early hahaha. After this meet I plan on revisting it but only going to 1500mg and using Nolva the entire time. I have never tried this approach but everytime I introduced a AI even on 2000mg I bottomed out E2 and hurt all over. So I feel your pain.
I’ve never been a big fan of lots of AI, I always keep a bottle of armidex in my office, and a couple times my nipple’s have got itchy, and I took a tab of armidex a day for a week, and it went away. I see some of these cycle’s layed out ( ussualy fist timers) and they look like they were designed by NASA it blows my mind.
It seems like just as with workouts, everyone is searching for the perfect elusive workout, and perfect elsuive diet. This magical secret that will bring unbeievable results. It seems to be the same way with gear, what ever happened to grabbing a botle of test, and a bottle of deca, and lifting some fucking weight.
There’s nothing perfect, just doing, and learning, figuring out what works for you, and getting fucking huge in the process. Everyone’s different, so get on a cycle, and see how efects you, then learn, and adjust from there. I do think it’s prudent to have some sort of AI around, just in case you get bad side, but on a small cyle, or in Reeds case even big ones, an AI isn’t always needed.
if your really concerned, get some HGH, and throw that in as your comming off I don’t know, just lift some fucking weights, and fill your ass full of gear, I’m sure somthing will happen !
Its because 90% of the people in this world including the ones looking to use AAS are looking for the easy way to do things and I don’t blame them I would give anything to wake up tomorrow and be a stronger more bad ass Dan Green but it does bt work that way. No matter how many drugs you have in that syringe or multiple syringes if your not willing to squat until you puke, see stars, nose bleeds, or any combination of the above the drugs will do nothing but make you slightly less average person than you were.
I am on plenty of Drugs, nutrion is very clean and training is on and intense as cab be and I am still not a world record holder or even a national record holder yet but damn it I’m getting closer every week because I know what it takes and by god I do all I can. Its literally fucking simple equation… Drugs will get you now where without Great training and nutrition. Once you learn to put in hard work in the Gym and Kitchen then add some drugs and see what you got.
You can’t expect a miracle program, nutrition plan, or cycle to turn you into a fucking monster unless they are all in place. But st the end of the day I can write down a program, nutrition by the day for a year, and perfectly lay put a cycle but unless you put in the HARD work and get under a damn bar all you have is a fancy piece of paper with a bunch of words and numbers.
I lobbed it over the plate, and Reed smashed it into the bleacher’s.
Well said, you are getting a tat testy lately though, carefull you don’t pick up a murder beef or somthing. I had to ge off tren for that very reason ( and promise my wife no more tren) because I was raging to much. The last straw, was waking up in the middle of the night, on top of my wife, she was fighting me off,
( trying to rape her in my sleep, I guess ) then I rolled over and started punching holes in the dry wall, while I was still laying in bed. I kind of came out of it, and looked up at my wife, standing at the end of the bed, and she’s like what ever your on, No fucking more. haha, True fucking story
I heard it said, that if your a quiet person, when your on tren, you’ll probably get a job promotion, but if your an agressive person already, you’ll probably get put in jail on tren, haha, I’ve noticed your posts lately are a little on the aggressive side. LOL god luck with that
i want your opinion on pct too i would use definitely aromasin in my pct along with nolva -and 25 mg clomid not too much coz im getting too emotional