From my reading I’ve noticed people tend to prefer test prop over cypionate/enanthate for cutting cycles. People tend to get less bloating from prop. I’m guessing this is due to less estrogen being formed.
It sounds counter intuitive since higher peak plasma levels occur with prop rather than cyp/enan. You would think this would cause more estrogen to be formed but apparantly it’s not the case.
Going even further, test suspension seems to cause even less bloating so I’ve read anecdotally from many message boards. Actually I’ve read conflicting reports. On many profiles for suspension it is listed as having very high bloating characteristics.
Anecdotally from people who’ve used it, it seems the opposite. Many people have apparantly used it for contest prep quite effectively.
The reason I am asking is I tend to bloat very easily on test cyp/enan. I am thinking of trying prop or suspension to reduce this.
Has anyone noticed these characteristics? Does suspension cause less bloat than prop, and prop less than cyp/enan?
Why would you believe that propionate would give you a higher peak plasma level? That depends on the dose. It’s just that the hills and vallies between peak and lowest will have smaller differences with prop as you are pinning everyday. If you pin enan or cyp ED the hills and valleys will become exponentially closer to resembling those of prop.
Testosterone isn’t even active until the ester is replaced with the hydroxyl (OH) to form true test, so I really wouldn’t see how the ester impacts the bloat, unless it is strictly related to the hills and vallies, once again.
If you are on HRT, I would suggest sticking with the long esters. Do you really want to pin ED with prop for the rest of your life? Worse yet, do you really want to pin once to twice ED with suspension?
If the bloat gets that bad, you can always talk to your endocrinologist about getting some sort of AI.
From my reading I’ve noticed people tend to prefer test prop over cypionate/enanthate for cutting cycles. People tend to get less bloating from prop. I’m guessing this is due to less estrogen being formed.
It sounds counter intuitive since higher peak plasma levels occur with prop rather than cyp/enan. You would think this would cause more estrogen to be formed but apparantly it’s not the case.
Going even further, test suspension seems to cause even less bloating so I’ve read anecdotally from many message boards. Actually I’ve read conflicting reports. On many profiles for suspension it is listed as having very high bloating characteristics.
Anecdotally from people who’ve used it, it seems the opposite. Many people have apparantly used it for contest prep quite effectively.
The reason I am asking is I tend to bloat very easily on test cyp/enan. I am thinking of trying prop or suspension to reduce this.
Has anyone noticed these characteristics? Does suspension cause less bloat than prop, and prop less than cyp/enan?[/quote]
Why would you believe that propionate would give you a higher peak plasma level? That depends on the dose. It’s just that the hills and vallies between peak and lowest will have smaller differences with prop as you are pinning everyday. If you pin enan or cyp ED the hills and valleys will become exponentially closer to resembling those of prop.
[/quote]Actually, for the same dose, you will get a higher plasma concentration, and subsequently a quicker clearance, with shorter-estered variations, and vice versa with longer esters, even though total concentration (area under curve) is the same in both.
Why would you believe that propionate would give you a higher peak plasma level? That depends on the dose. It’s just that the hills and vallies between peak and lowest will have smaller differences with prop as you are pinning everyday. If you pin enan or cyp ED the hills and valleys will become exponentially closer to resembling those of prop.[/quote]
Because testosterone is released from the propionate ester at a faster rate than cypionate resulting in higher peaks and vallies. A sharper curve is probably a better choice of words.
[quote]
2. Testosterone isn’t even active until the ester is replaced with the hydroxyl (OH) to form true test, so I really wouldn’t see how the ester impacts the bloat, unless it is strictly related to the hills and vallies, once again.[/quote]
True. I’m not sure why the ester impacts bloat, just many people have commented on it. Many bodybuilders prefer propionate over cypionate for cutting cycles. Why is that?
[quote]
3. If you are on HRT, I would suggest sticking with the long esters. Do you really want to pin ED with prop for the rest of your life? Worse yet, do you really want to pin once to twice ED with suspension?[/quote]
Pinning every day doesn’t bother me. I’ve done HCG ED with testosterone cypionate EOD. I use 30G 0.5" pins though so it isn’t a big deal.
I’m already taking Letrozole 2.5mg a day, and my estradiol levels are still above the top of the range. 210 pmol/L (Range: Up to 206 pmol/L)
For some reason I’m not a good responder to AI’s. I’ve had to graduate from Aromasin to Arimidex to Letrozole due them not lowering my estradiol levels effectively enough. I’m not sure if I’m not metabolizing them correctly or if I have very high aromatase activity.
This is why I’m considering other options to help lower estrogen levels at this point. I’m also taking Proviron 25mg twice a day.
I know people here aren’t big fans of Anthony Roberts, but he has an article talking about esters and their effect on aromatase.