[quote]c_guns77 wrote:
Unlike the antiestrogen Nolvadex which only blocks the estrogen receptors Proviron already prevents the aromatizing of steroids. Therefore gynecomastia and increased water retention are successfully blocked. Since Proviron strongly suppresses the forming of estrogens no re-bound effect occurs after discontinuation of use of the compound as is the case with, for example, Nolvadex where an aromatization of the steroids is not prevented. One can say that Nolvadex cures the problem of aromatization at its root while Nolvadex simply cures the symptoms. For this reason male athletes should prefer Proviron to Nolvadex.
is this correct, and if i do decide proviron over nolva should i take proviron while on cycle???
and i thought that “technically” nolva is not a anti e[/quote]
The only fact in that, in my opinion, is the truth about the anti-aromatizing effects of proviron and the fact that nolva blocks E receptors. I’ll break this down piece by piece.
Nolvadex is almost a complete antagonist of estrogen, but it still has partial agonist character. What this means, for the pharmacologically ignorant, is that the binding site on the estrogen receptor will be occupied by the active compound in nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate), and while it does prevent estrogen from binding, it also has partial estrogenic character that exerts effects nowhere near as strong as estrogen itself. Therefore, water retention and gynecomastia will be blocked anyways.
What proviron and other AI’s do is inhibit the aromataze enzyme (I’m not quite sure if it inhibits allosterically or competitively). Therefore, the substrate (testosterone and other AAS) cannot successfully bind to the active site on the enzyme and undergo the reaction to be converted to estrogen. However, complete inhibitory action is not really possible without getting into what pharmacologists call the “LD50” which is the dose that is lethal to 50% of the population (this term is for any drug) and has to do with the pharmacodynamics of the drug itself. That being said, there is still a smaller portion of active estrogen that can bind to their respective receptors.
As for the rebound effect, that is a pretty ignorant comment to be said. As long as the AI is run for at least a 3 half-lives of the hormone that can aromatize, then the danger is gone. Same can be said about nolvadex. If the nolva is run for enough time that the “life” of estrogen runs its course, then there will be no rebound effect.
As for this statement: “One can say that Nolvadex cures the problem of aromatization at its root while Nolvadex simply cures the symptoms.” It is completely dumbed down and shouldn’t even be included. You can’t understand the drugs you are taking if you do not understand the mechanisms under which they operate.
Well, with all that being said, as for this question “is this correct, and if i do decide proviron over nolva should i take proviron while on cycle???” An aromataze inhibitor should always be your first in the arsenal during a cycle, not a SERM.
As for this statement,
“and i thought that “technically” nolva is not a anti e”, “technically” anti estrogen is a generic term and not a scientific one, and yes it is an antiestrogen, if you consider anti-e to be any drug that suppresses the effects of estrogen, whether directly or indirectly. Technically the pharmacological term is a “partial (or mixed) antagonist/agonist of estrogen”, and nolvadex belongs to a special class called the “SERM” (selective estrogen receptor modulator). What this term means is that it only exerts its effects on receptors in certain tissues of the body, such as the breast tissue. It does not exert its action on every part of the body that has an estrogen receptor.
Anyways, it’s late and typing all this tired me out. I hope it helps. Always be smart and do your research. Look into arimidex as an AI.
Later,
Joey
