Tesla Barred From North Carolina??????

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]JEATON wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Sounds like NC just wants Tesla to be regulated by the DMV like all other dealers. What’s wrong with that? [/quote]

I’m not really into regulation from the govt entities. They usually just screw things up and drive the cost up of everything they get their hands on. Why do we need a middle man telling me what I can buy and what Tesla can sell?[/quote]

You might remember this when you go on your next tangent against “anti-climate change fools.”

Remember, the governmental response to natural climate change is to legislate a “carbon tax,” because, as we all know, a tax is the answer to every real or perceived problem.

Next thing you know, they will be taxing rain and farts…oh wait. The already are taxing one of these. [/quote]

I love how you jump to a false conclusion based on, well, based on nothing I have ever said. You automatically assume that because I am not a climate-change denier that I support some sort of carbon tax. I don’t support one, and that is not the only governmental response to man-made or natural climate change. There are many, many responses, but you automatically single out ONE of those responses because it is an easy target.

I believe that climate change is occurring right now and that it is happening at a rate that far exceeds anything that has happened since the beginning of human civilization, which is a belief that is common to virtually the entirety of the science community that has taken a stance one or the other on this particular issue. I further believe that these changes are man-made and can be reduced or slowed down. I do not believe that we are already in a full-blown crisis, or that one is right around the corner. I DO believe that a crisis could occur in the future if we do not prepare accordingly in the face of these changes. I don’t think that crisis involves the extinction of the human race.

When it comes to governmental regulations, like I stated above, I am not crazy about them. But that is in a general sense. I do believe that there are things that the government can incentivize that would help both the economy and the environment at the same time. I think there could be incentives in place for growing less water-dependent crops, I think there could be more strict limits to building homes or developments of various sorts along coastal properties that are vulnerable to flooding and/or erosion in the face of rising sea levels. I think that, if no other route presents itself, a govt stimulus package that aims to repair or rebuild levees surrounding low-lying cities like New Orleans or Sacramento would be beneficial. I think that companies should be encouraged to develop green technologies, which is different than punishing companies for carbon emissions. I further think that we should embrace potential monetary profits as well as environmental benefits to developing green technology. There is certainly a market for it, and if green technologies are going to continue to be employed around the globe, I don’t see any reason why the U.S. cannot or should not be at the forefront of such an industry.[/quote]

So the gist of the above is that government, and not the market, is so totally awesome, right?[/quote]

The gist of the above is that there are exceptions to every rule. The rule in this case is that GENERALLY-SPEAKING, govt subsidies are not a good idea. The above are some possible exceptions. Note the qualifying terms and phrases such as “could” and “if no other route presents itself”.

Also, I think that the market is susceptible to false information, such as the info that climate change deniers foist upon it. Educating the market rather than forcing change through govt action is far more preferable.

Just because I say I like the color blue doesn’t mean I like the Dodgers, you know what I mean?

103

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Just because I say I like the color blue doesn’t mean I like the Dodgers, you know what I mean?[/quote]

How 'bout them Cincinnati Reds![/quote]

I hear Jay Stone is a huge fan. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

105

Posting in the correct thread this time…

After reviewing why North Carolina, and Texas have not allowed Tesla to sell in their states, I understand the points a little better. It has to do with the nature of the way Tesla does business, not the product they are selling. In short, Tesla is completely proprietary, not allowing people to buy in and resell their goods at a local level. All entities from sales to repair are in house proprietary and one is completely beholden to Tesla for everything when it comes to purchasing their goods.

The reason they were barred from selling in those states is because Tesla does not keep any monies, or very little money in the state of sale. Everything leaves to home base. Because Tesla does little to nothing for the local economy the states preferred model for durable goods, to allow those entities selling those goods in their states not to have to compete with foreign entities whose sales leave and do not profit the local economy.

The pure capitolist in me says they should just allow the market decide and come what may, but I understand, especially in these times, to protect local economies from foreign sales of durable goods that do not benefit the local economy. Hence, I both agree and disagree with the North Carolina and Texas bans of Tesla’s durable goods. They simply have to change their business model to allow benefit to the local economy from resale of their goods and all will be well. I get protecting the fragile local economy, I also get letting the market decide.

106

I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no…

107

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no… [/quote]

Well, there is no haggling. And personally, I would prefer there to be no haggling. But consumer protection is also a valid concern. A customer is completely beholden to what tesla decides to do. The lithium Ion battery has to be supplied by tesla for tesla and nobody else can make them. That’s a problem especially if the company suffers doom.

Further, just have an issue with the electric motor in general. It hasn’t changed since Edison invented it. It’s almost exactly the same and not totally efficient. That’s not to say it has no value, I just think it a lousy thing to power an automobile with.

What I would like to see is the electric powered centrifugal super charger. You would be able to significantly increase hp and gas mileage vs. the old fasion turbo or turbine styled compressors.
I would also like to see direct air injection removing the inefficiencies of throttle bodies and manifolds in which there are tremendous losses. As well as the ability to cool the combustion chamber and increasing combustion ratios exponentially.

108


Personally, if you’re going to mod a Lotus, I prefer Hennessey’s method. Stick a Viper motor in it and blow it, giving it well over 1000 HP. This is a hybrid I would buy (if I could afford it)

109

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no… [/quote]

Well, there is no haggling. And personally, I would prefer there to be no haggling. But consumer protection is also a valid concern. A customer is completely beholden to what tesla decides to do. The lithium Ion battery has to be supplied by tesla for tesla and nobody else can make them. That’s a problem especially if the company suffers doom.

[/quote]

Well to each his own. I think haggling is important on large purchases.

110

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no… [/quote]

Well, there is no haggling. And personally, I would prefer there to be no haggling. But consumer protection is also a valid concern. A customer is completely beholden to what tesla decides to do. The lithium Ion battery has to be supplied by tesla for tesla and nobody else can make them. That’s a problem especially if the company suffers doom.

[/quote]

Well to each his own. I think haggling is important on large purchases. [/quote]

I don’t. Obviously I want the best deal possible and usually with a lot of pain, I get it. Having worked at a car dealership for 6 years, I know the business. However, shit has a certain worth, charge what it’s worth and let that be that. I prefer fair to everybody. I have witnessed to many people get hosed because they don’t know how the business works. I think it’s absurd for two people to pay two different prices for the exact same product.

111

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no… [/quote]

Well, there is no haggling. And personally, I would prefer there to be no haggling. But consumer protection is also a valid concern. A customer is completely beholden to what tesla decides to do. The lithium Ion battery has to be supplied by tesla for tesla and nobody else can make them. That’s a problem especially if the company suffers doom.

[/quote]

Well to each his own. I think haggling is important on large purchases. [/quote]

I don’t. Obviously I want the best deal possible and usually with a lot of pain, I get it. Having worked at a car dealership for 6 years, I know the business. However, shit has a certain worth, charge what it’s worth and let that be that. I prefer fair to everybody. I have witnessed to many people get hosed because they don’t know how the business works. I think it’s absurd for two people to pay two different prices for the exact same product.[/quote]

I agree, but as the consumer I can’t gurantee I’m not the one being hosed.

112

[quote]pat wrote:

I don’t. Obviously I want the best deal possible and usually with a lot of pain, I get it. Having worked at a car dealership for 6 years, I know the business. However, shit has a certain worth, charge what it’s worth and let that be that. I prefer fair to everybody. I have witnessed to many people get hosed because they don’t know how the business works. I think it’s absurd for two people to pay two different prices for the exact same product.[/quote]

Market value is what a willing buyer, under no duress to act irrationally, is willing to give up in exchange for a product or service AND what a willing seller, under no duress to act irrationally, is willing to take in exchange for the same product or service.

That value is different for every buyer, and as long as it is above the minimum amount a seller is willing to accept, the seller is going to agree to the highest possible price.

I don’t think the process of free enterprise is absurd. I think that if the seller makes a higher profit because of the buyer’s ignorance - it is the fault of the buyer.

That said - I never bargain.

113

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no… [/quote]

That’s how the free market works. There is no govt entity or what have you in place to protect the consumer from themselves.

114

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no… [/quote]

That’s how the free market works. There is no govt entity or what have you in place to protect the consumer from themselves. [/quote]

Are you for the dissolution of all unions?

115

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no… [/quote]

That’s how the free market works. There is no govt entity or what have you in place to protect the consumer from themselves. [/quote]

Are you for the dissolution of all unions?[/quote]

Are you a supporter of free market principles?

On an unrelated note, Tesla has announced that they have officially paid back the entirety of their $465 million loan, plus interest, about 9 years ahead of schedule.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-22/tesla-pays-off-its-465-million-loser-loan

I love it. They are an American company that employs thousands of Americans, they are turning a profit, their stock is doing well for their shareholders and they produce a vehicle that highly satisfies those who buy it. What isn’t to like about them?

116

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
What isn’t to like about them?[/quote]
Their cars are electric.

117

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
What isn’t to like about them?[/quote]
Their cars are electric.[/quote]

What does that have to do with the company themselves? Want to know what another model company is right now? Starbucks. They employ hundreds of thousands of people, they turn large profits and make their shareholders money, they are situated to grow even more, which brings more money to their shareholders, more tax revenue to the country, they’re an American company, they’re providing good health benefits to their employees and they provide a product that people enjoy. What’s not to like about that? If you don’t like Starbucks then don’t buy their coffee. If you don’t like Tesla then don’t buy their cars.

You should be thankful that a company like Tesla is based in the U.S. and you should wish that more companies like them existed here. They’re a throwback to the entrepreneurial spirit that formed this country. You sound like a bitter old man who’s always complaining that things were better way back when. Have fun being bitter and essentially having to root against a very well-run American company from here on out, because you are going to look like a Grade-A DIPSHIT when they are still doing well ten or twenty years from now.

118

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no… [/quote]

That’s how the free market works. There is no govt entity or what have you in place to protect the consumer from themselves. [/quote]

Are you for the dissolution of all unions?[/quote]

Are you a supporter of free market principles?

On an unrelated note, Tesla has announced that they have officially paid back the entirety of their $465 million loan, plus interest, about 9 years ahead of schedule.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-22/tesla-pays-off-its-465-million-loser-loan

I love it. They are an American company that employs thousands of Americans, they are turning a profit, their stock is doing well for their shareholders and they produce a vehicle that highly satisfies those who buy it. What isn’t to like about them?[/quote]

Do you always answer a question with a question?

I am for free market principles. Unions are counter to free markets, imo. Being a teacher I am assuming you are in a union, is that correct?

So am I also correct in assuming you are for teacher unions, but not the dealership unions (or whatever union it is I don’t remember) because they are against the Tesla model?

119

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no… [/quote]

That’s how the free market works. There is no govt entity or what have you in place to protect the consumer from themselves. [/quote]

Are you for the dissolution of all unions?[/quote]

Are you a supporter of free market principles?

On an unrelated note, Tesla has announced that they have officially paid back the entirety of their $465 million loan, plus interest, about 9 years ahead of schedule.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-22/tesla-pays-off-its-465-million-loser-loan

I love it. They are an American company that employs thousands of Americans, they are turning a profit, their stock is doing well for their shareholders and they produce a vehicle that highly satisfies those who buy it. What isn’t to like about them?[/quote]

Do you always answer a question with a question?

I am for free market principles. Unions are counter to free markets, imo. Being a teacher I am assuming you are in a union, is that correct?

So am I also correct in assuming you are for teacher unions, but not the dealership unions (or whatever union it is I don’t remember) because they are against the Tesla model?
[/quote]

I don’t belong to the teachers’ union. I still have to pay union dues, but I have no choice in that matter. I am not for unions, nor am I for the opposite end of the spectrum, which is the unchecked exploitation of workers.

So, now that I have answered your question, how is it that you are not against NC’s actions against Tesla and yet you ARE for free market principles?

120

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I read one of the unions (I don’t remember which) is concerned that Tesla’s model leaves consumers vulnerable if Tesla goes under. Maintenance, recalls, etc… are all tied to Tesla instead of independent dealerships like all other car companies.

I also read there’s no haggling, umm no… [/quote]

That’s how the free market works. There is no govt entity or what have you in place to protect the consumer from themselves. [/quote]

Are you for the dissolution of all unions?[/quote]

Are you a supporter of free market principles?

On an unrelated note, Tesla has announced that they have officially paid back the entirety of their $465 million loan, plus interest, about 9 years ahead of schedule.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-22/tesla-pays-off-its-465-million-loser-loan

I love it. They are an American company that employs thousands of Americans, they are turning a profit, their stock is doing well for their shareholders and they produce a vehicle that highly satisfies those who buy it. What isn’t to like about them?[/quote]

Do you always answer a question with a question?

I am for free market principles. Unions are counter to free markets, imo. Being a teacher I am assuming you are in a union, is that correct?

So am I also correct in assuming you are for teacher unions, but not the dealership unions (or whatever union it is I don’t remember) because they are against the Tesla model?
[/quote]

I don’t belong to the teachers’ union. I still have to pay union dues, but I have no choice in that matter. I am not for unions, nor am I for the opposite end of the spectrum, which is the unchecked exploitation of workers.

So, now that I have answered your question, how is it that you are not against NC’s actions against Tesla and yet you ARE for free market principles?[/quote]

We are on the same page.

I never said I agree with NC’s actions; however, I think if the people of NC are okay with the Tesla model they need to change how business is done in NC. If; however, the residents of NC want dealerships registered with the NC DNV, then so be it. That is free market in action on a certain level.