Tesla Barred From North Carolina??????

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

It’s still zero emissions from the car, no matter how you paint it. Sure, it isn’t ENTIRELY emission-free when taking into account how much emissions are produced making it. But there isn’t a car on the road that was made emission-free in that sense. This car is simply emission-free after production.

[/quote]
Even after production emissions are being released to power it. I could equally bottle all the exhaust from an ICE car, then pay someone to take the bottles away, same “zero” emission. I will say that the electric car provides for the future ability to go Zero emissions, but until we are running the power grid on solar/wind/nuclear/new technology, it’s still producing emissions to drive it. And many people are to dumb not to realize it.

[quote]

By the way, I don’t know where you get your info from about the Tesla, but from everything I’ve read you’re entirely wrong on the price and the distance one can drive with it. The base price of a Model S is $62,000. That’s not cheap, but there is clearly a burgeoning market for it regardless.

The driving range is still not that good, but it’s more than double than 100-mile figure you stated, even if you get the lower-end battery. Most people who can afford a car that costs $62K already have another car, and only an idiot would buy this as their sole vehicle. So it’s perfect for daily driving or reasonable commute times. If the owner needs to go on a trip of some length, they can use their other vehicle.

As far as driving at a high rate of speed all the time, sure, if you do so the battery drains much faster. But the fact is that the demographic most able to afford this car and most likely to buy one simply does not drive at a high rate of speed. The same could be said of virtually any high-performance luxury vehicle. Look at any driving-related fatality statistics you want. Every indication is that young people are FAR more likely to die in a high-speed crash than older people are. So while what you said is true, I think the point is a bit moot.

Driverless cars are actually the wave of the near-future. I think these Teslas are probably more of a stop-gap until we get there. But since Google is the one developing the technology for driverless cars and is based in the same area as Tesla Motors (Silicon Valley), and given that Google is more likely to simply contract the technology out to a car manufacturer rather than start building vehicles themselves, Tesla is also in perfect position to be the benefactor of this major shift in the way we transport ourselves in the future.

You sound like people who were against cars when they first came out. Just keep cruising around town on top of your horse, Pat.[/quote]

I’d also ask, are you talking about cost, or cost to consumer? 2 different things in the electric car market.[/quote]

Like I said, it’s a work in progress and hasn’t achieved perfection yet, or anything close to it.

I’m sure there were a lot of people 100 years ago who were skeptical about the impact cars would have on society since there weren’t really any gas stations around or much of an infrastructure to support the use of cars and horses could still travel much further before “refueling”.

The $62000 cost I referred to is the price that consumers pay for a base model Tesla S. If you are talking about the cost to the consumer when factoring in carbon emissions from producing the vehicle or the cost over the long haul from subsidizing the company to the tune of a roughly $450 million low-interest loan, I don’t know what that comes out to.

I’m not really into the govt subsidizing things, but if it IS going to subsidize shit, this is a pretty good thing to fund. First of all, Tesla is ahead of schedule in terms of paying it back, they’re turning a profit, they are making money for their shareholders, and they are still a very small operation. They’re only producing a few thousand cars per year right now, but based on financial projections (the same ones that conservatively underestimated the speed at which Tesla would reach the point they are at right now) the cost of the vehicle will drop down by almost 50% within just a couple years. It’s conceivable that within 5 years the car that costs $62000 now will cost $40000 and also go much further per battery charge.

The way I look at it, this is an investment that the govt made back in 2007 that is paying off much sooner than anticipated, and perhaps to larger degree in the long run than was ever anticipated.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Bert, do you think Tesla strictly got their government subsidies via low level Department of Energy managers in the Cincinnati office?[/quote]

What subsidies are you talking about? You mean the low-interest loan they received back in 2007? The one that they are ahead of schedule to pay back? That subsidy?[/quote]

Yeah, that one. You thinking that was handled through low level managers in the Cincy office?[/quote]

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Someone tell Delbert what’s going on. I’m too mean to do it without hurting his feelings.[/quote]

If he can’t get it on his own, I fear that any effort to bring him up to speed will merely yield more of…

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I don’t know what you’re talking about.[/quote]

…which is arguably the most factually correct post he’s made in the short time I’ve been participating on this board.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Bert, you got me runnin goin out of my mind, you got me thinkin that I’m wastin my time.

Don’t bring me down.[/quote]

What is your point? What does the Cincinnati IRS office have to do with Tesla?

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

What is your point? What does the Cincinnati IRS office have to do with Tesla? [/quote]

You’re the one who brought up the Cincinnati IRS office in the first place. What the hell does that office have to do with anything in the news? It is a known fact that the Treasury Department had full knowledge of what was going on in June 2012.

Are you really this obtuse?

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

What is your point? What does the Cincinnati IRS office have to do with Tesla? [/quote]

You’re the one who brought up the Cincinnati IRS office in the first place. What the hell does that office have to do with anything in the news? It is a known fact that the Treasury Department had full knowledge of what was going on in June 2012.

Are you really this obtuse?
[/quote]

I’m sorry, are you Push? No? Then let him answer for himself. I wasn’t aware that this was the IRS-related thread. Besides, I made that statement based on what other sources in the news were saying at the time. I never held it up as a concrete fact that I firmly believed in. Now that it’s come out that there was more to it than what I initially was led to believe I don’t have much more to say about it. I was wrong. So what? If you want to continue to discuss the issue with me then do so in the appropriate thread. Otherwise, vanish.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

What is your point? What does the Cincinnati IRS office have to do with Tesla? [/quote]

You’re the one who brought up the Cincinnati IRS office in the first place. What the hell does that office have to do with anything in the news? It is a known fact that the Treasury Department had full knowledge of what was going on in June 2012.

Are you really this obtuse?
[/quote]

I’m sorry, are you Push? No? Then let him answer for himself. I wasn’t aware that this was the IRS-related thread. Besides, I made that statement based on what other sources in the news were saying at the time. I never held it up as a concrete fact that I firmly believed in. Now that it’s come out that there was more to it than what I initially was led to believe I don’t have much more to say about it. I was wrong. So what? If you want to continue to discuss the issue with me then do so in the appropriate thread. Otherwise, vanish.[/quote]

LMAO. It’s the internet. You showed your ass on it, and now you want to tell people not to stare.

Tough shit, Sherlock.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:
What’s the range on these magically wonderful electric Tesla’s? Will they charge on 110? Or do they need 220? If I’m driving the Tesla of your choice, how many days would it take me to drive from Redding to San Diego? How many days would the same trip take if, every time I was forced to come to a complete stop, I accelerated as fast as the gazelle-like Tesla could accelerate?

LMAO at enviro nuts cruising around town in their electric cars that run on electricity generated by natural gas turbines which was made available via hydraulic fracturing. Almost as funny as a PETA member wearing leather birkenstocks. [/quote]

I always thought the “zero emissions” statement should get sued for false advertising.[/quote]

It should, it’s emissions migration, not ‘zero emissions’. If energy is created (to be more accurate, changed into a form usable to an electric motor), there is emissions of something somewhere. [/quote]

It’s still zero emissions from the car, no matter how you paint it. Sure, it isn’t ENTIRELY emission-free when taking into account how much emissions are produced making it. But there isn’t a car on the road that was made emission-free in that sense. This car is simply emission-free after production.
[/quote]
Not unless you don’t charge it, or don’t use it. When you plug it in you are increasing emissions where ever the source of the electricity is, therefore, it’s not zero emissions, it’s emissions transfer.
Also, electric motors produce ozone. As well as an electromagnetic field. I prefer hydro carbons.

I was pretty sure I mentioned the specific model, their high performance model, which was $101,000 according to cars.com. Which I was comparing to similarly priced cars that can run circles around it. Confirming you’d have to be an idiot to buy the Tesla Roadster.

I read the article. If you turn everything off and drive very, very carefully you can make 200 miles. Somebody, doing the same type of thing got 45 mpg out of a Porsche 911 Carrera. Any car can be efficient, if you have a very light foot and don’t stress the motor with accessories.

Buying in at this price point yields A LOT of high performance cars. TONS, their are plenty of folks with a need for speed buying in at that price point. Chances are, the tree-huggers that can afford this car are few.
Crash statistics are not really pertinent, seeing as how when you can afford a $60,000 to $100,000 car, you’ve been around a while and know how to drive, surviving your stupid years.

[quote]
Driverless cars are actually the wave of the near-future. I think these Teslas are probably more of a stop-gap until we get there. But since Google is the one developing the technology for driverless cars and is based in the same area as Tesla Motors (Silicon Valley), and given that Google is more likely to simply contract the technology out to a car manufacturer rather than start building vehicles themselves, Tesla is also in perfect position to be the benefactor of this major shift in the way we transport ourselves in the future.

You sound like people who were against cars when they first came out. Just keep cruising around town on top of your horse, Pat.[/quote]

No, I love cars. I mean I have an extreme love and passion for cars. They will never go away, and I will never tolerate anything but an internal combustion engine in anything I drive. Tesla exists because of government subsidies. They were not able to get off the ground based on the market. I don’t expect them to survive based on market forces either. People who like cars, don’t buy hybrids or electrics, it’s against all we hold dear…Driverless cars, lol! It’s call the subway.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Look at the development of any major technology in our lives today. It’s about incremental changes. There will always be people who are against these changes and will have all sorts of complaints. The batteries don’t last long enough, the production still produces emissions, etc. etc. I’m not saying that the technology has been perfected or that it won’t evolve further.

This move toward electric cars and that sort of thing is going to spark a major change in the way we live our lives. Battery life is literally one of the only major roadblocks from a technological standpoint from these changes occurring at a rapid pace. Now that companies, laboratories, govts, think tanks, entrepreneurs and investors are seeing that there is a growing market for a vehicle that can only travel about 265 miles on one battery charge, the next natural step is for these people to take advantage of this market further by developing longer-lived batteries.

And people will be there to oppose these paradigm shifts. Good for them. Some people preferred horses to cars, radios to TV and so on. All I’m saying is that Tesla is at the forefront of a new technology right now, just like Google is in regards to driverless cars. That is the reality of the world we live in.[/quote]

That paradigm won’t shift. People like their cars. Hybrids/ electrics are for people who don’t care about cars.

Electric cars have been around since the turn of the century. They are nothing new. Even with improved battery technology, the one road block will always be true, people don’t like them.

It’s not the same as moving from horse to car. The second the model T was available, people were more than happy to put their horses out to pasture. There are things people want, those technologies will survive, there things people don’t, those technologies will survive marginally for a marginal population.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Bert, you got me runnin goin out of my mind, you got me thinkin that I’m wastin my time.

Don’t bring me down.[/quote]

What is your point? What does the Cincinnati IRS office have to do with Tesla? [/quote]

You brought up football, nobody was talking about football either. So what was your point?

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Bert, do you think Tesla strictly got their government subsidies via low level Department of Energy managers in the Cincinnati office?[/quote]

What subsidies are you talking about? You mean the low-interest loan they received back in 2007? The one that they are ahead of schedule to pay back? That subsidy?[/quote]

Hello, the ARRA? Investing in ‘green’ technologies? They tossed a bunch of money to Fisker too. That pissed people off since they were not even an American ‘green’ company.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Look at the development of any major technology in our lives today. It’s about incremental changes. There will always be people who are against these changes and will have all sorts of complaints. The batteries don’t last long enough, the production still produces emissions, etc. etc. I’m not saying that the technology has been perfected or that it won’t evolve further.

This move toward electric cars and that sort of thing is going to spark a major change in the way we live our lives. Battery life is literally one of the only major roadblocks from a technological standpoint from these changes occurring at a rapid pace. Now that companies, laboratories, govts, think tanks, entrepreneurs and investors are seeing that there is a growing market for a vehicle that can only travel about 265 miles on one battery charge, the next natural step is for these people to take advantage of this market further by developing longer-lived batteries.

And people will be there to oppose these paradigm shifts. Good for them. Some people preferred horses to cars, radios to TV and so on. All I’m saying is that Tesla is at the forefront of a new technology right now, just like Google is in regards to driverless cars. That is the reality of the world we live in.[/quote]

That paradigm won’t shift. People like their cars. Hybrids/ electrics are for people who don’t care about cars.

Electric cars have been around since the turn of the century. They are nothing new. Even with improved battery technology, the one road block will always be true, people don’t like them.

It’s not the same as moving from horse to car. The second the model T was available, people were more than happy to put their horses out to pasture. There are things people want, those technologies will survive, there things people don’t, those technologies will survive marginally for a marginal population.
[/quote]

Pat, people said the exact same things when it was cars vs. horses. People didn’t just forget about horses when the automobile came out. Cars were more affordable then compared to the Tesla’s price, but there was much less of an infrastructure in place for cars, too. The only infrastructure change needed for Teslas right now are more charging stations, which are being built all over the place right now.

I haven’t driven a Tesla, or any other electric car, so I can’t speak from personal experience about whether or not they are fun to drive. But literally everything I’ve heard from people who HAVE driven them says that they are extremely fun to drive. Like I mentioned earlier, Consumer Reports gave them a 99 out of 100, the highest rating they’ve ever given any vehicle.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/05/13/1991311/with-record-sales-tesla-turns-a-profit-as-consumer-reports-says-it-comes-close-to-being-the-best-car-ever/

I don’t know why you continue to point to the fact that they were subsidized. EVERYTHING is subsidized. Your home mortgage is subsidized, the tax writeoffs for your business are subsidies, etc. etc. Tesla is on track to have paid back their $465 million loan by 2017, which is 5 years ahead of schedule. How many companies can say they are producing a product with Tesla’s track record and are paying back their loan that quickly?

Also, look at the new generation of people growing up in this country. Kids nowadays aren’t interested in cars the way you and I were when we were teenagers. My first car was a 1967 Impala with a 396 Turbojet. The next generation of kids’ cars won’t be those sort of vehicles. This is a generation growing up attached to their iPhones. Driverless cars in particular will especially be attractive to them because they won’t have to be distracted from their tweeting and their texting and all that shit while they are going places. Teslas are the next step in that direction.

You can sit there and say that people don’t like electric cars all you want, but the sales trends of the Tesla are proving you extremely wrong each day.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Look at the development of any major technology in our lives today. It’s about incremental changes. There will always be people who are against these changes and will have all sorts of complaints. The batteries don’t last long enough, the production still produces emissions, etc. etc. I’m not saying that the technology has been perfected or that it won’t evolve further.

This move toward electric cars and that sort of thing is going to spark a major change in the way we live our lives. Battery life is literally one of the only major roadblocks from a technological standpoint from these changes occurring at a rapid pace. Now that companies, laboratories, govts, think tanks, entrepreneurs and investors are seeing that there is a growing market for a vehicle that can only travel about 265 miles on one battery charge, the next natural step is for these people to take advantage of this market further by developing longer-lived batteries.

And people will be there to oppose these paradigm shifts. Good for them. Some people preferred horses to cars, radios to TV and so on. All I’m saying is that Tesla is at the forefront of a new technology right now, just like Google is in regards to driverless cars. That is the reality of the world we live in.[/quote]

That paradigm won’t shift. People like their cars. Hybrids/ electrics are for people who don’t care about cars.

Electric cars have been around since the turn of the century. They are nothing new. Even with improved battery technology, the one road block will always be true, people don’t like them.

It’s not the same as moving from horse to car. The second the model T was available, people were more than happy to put their horses out to pasture. There are things people want, those technologies will survive, there things people don’t, those technologies will survive marginally for a marginal population.
[/quote]

Pat, people said the exact same things when it was cars vs. horses. People didn’t just forget about horses when the automobile came out. Cars were more affordable then compared to the Tesla’s price, but there was much less of an infrastructure in place for cars, too. The only infrastructure change needed for Teslas right now are more charging stations, which are being built all over the place right now.

I haven’t driven a Tesla, or any other electric car, so I can’t speak from personal experience about whether or not they are fun to drive. But literally everything I’ve heard from people who HAVE driven them says that they are extremely fun to drive. Like I mentioned earlier, Consumer Reports gave them a 99 out of 100, the highest rating they’ve ever given any vehicle.
[/quote]
Uh, no people didn’t go shoot their horses, but cars took over, quickly. People don’t have an issues adapting to new technology. Never have. People don’t embrace technologies they don’t like or don’t care for. Market forces have determined that electric cars will always be a marginal market. Like I said, they’ve been around since the turn of the 20th century. Even with high gas prices, they still haven’t taken off. In the '90’s GM came out with the EV, with the same range as most electric cars today, albeit a bit heavier. They couldn’t give them away. Electric cars are not new technology, they’ve been around for over 100 years. Still haven’t taken the market by storm. I think the advent of the smart phone is a prime example of how anxious people are to happily embrace new technology.

thinkprogress? LOL!!!

Maybe your mortgage was subsidized, but I don’t live in section 8 housing. I pay ever penny. The government returning a portion on my own money, sans interest, is not a subsidy. I don’t know what you define as a subsidy. But if I am supposed to get a subsidy, please tell me where to pick up my check, I could use it.

GM paid off their multi-billion dollar loan, already.

You act as if these concepts haven’t been tried before. Driverless cars have been around from the '80’s. The more things change, the more they stay the same. The car culture is are viable as it ever has been. Nobody considers electric/ hybrids part of that culture.
Now a days kids are in to force-fed rice burners, not driverless cars. You’re imagination of the future sounds like the ‘Tomorrow world’ exhibit at Disney World during the '70’s. We were supposed to be flying around in driverless air cars. I have never heard anybody say “Whoa shit, check out that hybrid!”

[quote]
You can sit there and say that people don’t like electric cars all you want, but the sales trends of the Tesla are proving you extremely wrong each day.[/quote]
Compared to whom? Themselves? I am sure the Camry and Accord aren’t sweating it; whose hybrid versions account for a fragment of sales.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Sounds like NC just wants Tesla to be regulated by the DMV like all other dealers. What’s wrong with that? [/quote]

I’m not really into regulation from the govt entities. They usually just screw things up and drive the cost up of everything they get their hands on. Why do we need a middle man telling me what I can buy and what Tesla can sell?[/quote]

You might remember this when you go on your next tangent against “anti-climate change fools.”

Remember, the governmental response to natural climate change is to legislate a “carbon tax,” because, as we all know, a tax is the answer to every real or perceived problem.

Next thing you know, they will be taxing rain and farts…oh wait. The already are taxing one of these.

[quote]JEATON wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Sounds like NC just wants Tesla to be regulated by the DMV like all other dealers. What’s wrong with that? [/quote]

I’m not really into regulation from the govt entities. They usually just screw things up and drive the cost up of everything they get their hands on. Why do we need a middle man telling me what I can buy and what Tesla can sell?[/quote]

You might remember this when you go on your next tangent against “anti-climate change fools.”

Remember, the governmental response to natural climate change is to legislate a “carbon tax,” because, as we all know, a tax is the answer to every real or perceived problem.

Next thing you know, they will be taxing rain and farts…oh wait. The already are taxing one of these. [/quote]

I love how you jump to a false conclusion based on, well, based on nothing I have ever said. You automatically assume that because I am not a climate-change denier that I support some sort of carbon tax. I don’t support one, and that is not the only governmental response to man-made or natural climate change. There are many, many responses, but you automatically single out ONE of those responses because it is an easy target.

I believe that climate change is occurring right now and that it is happening at a rate that far exceeds anything that has happened since the beginning of human civilization, which is a belief that is common to virtually the entirety of the science community that has taken a stance one or the other on this particular issue. I further believe that these changes are man-made and can be reduced or slowed down. I do not believe that we are already in a full-blown crisis, or that one is right around the corner. I DO believe that a crisis could occur in the future if we do not prepare accordingly in the face of these changes. I don’t think that crisis involves the extinction of the human race.

When it comes to governmental regulations, like I stated above, I am not crazy about them. But that is in a general sense. I do believe that there are things that the government can incentivize that would help both the economy and the environment at the same time. I think there could be incentives in place for growing less water-dependent crops, I think there could be more strict limits to building homes or developments of various sorts along coastal properties that are vulnerable to flooding and/or erosion in the face of rising sea levels. I think that, if no other route presents itself, a govt stimulus package that aims to repair or rebuild levees surrounding low-lying cities like New Orleans or Sacramento would be beneficial. I think that companies should be encouraged to develop green technologies, which is different than punishing companies for carbon emissions. I further think that we should embrace potential monetary profits as well as environmental benefits to developing green technology. There is certainly a market for it, and if green technologies are going to continue to be employed around the globe, I don’t see any reason why the U.S. cannot or should not be at the forefront of such an industry.