[quote]zecarlo wrote:
You were in the military; how did/would you?
[/quote]
So a zygote/fetus is the same as an enemy combatant now…?
[quote]
If you are talking specifically about abortion then “how do you” should be changed to “how does one.” The answer would be making a distinction between human organism and human being. A person is a human organism but a human organism is not necessarily a person. [/quote]
Thanks for the English lesson.
When does a human organism magically become a human person?[/quote]
When the law says it does. [/quote]
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
The law does not read that way. It does not state a black and/or slave is 3/5ths of a person. That doesn’t even make sense. How is something 3/5ths of a human?
[/quote]
The bottom line of Article I Section 2 is that slaves were counted as less than whites for representation.
Lol, it’s 3/5ths of a Person since personhood is this mystical thing there should be no problem here.
[quote]
A visiting free white foreigner would have been counted as zero. Does that mean he was not considered a person? [/quote]
He/She would no have been counted as “zero” he/she would not have been counted at all.[/quote]
And Indians who didn’t pay taxes were not counted at all so they were 0/5ths of a person? White foreigners were not counted at all so they were not persons?
And if, as you state, slavery was justified by the belief that blacks were not people then why did slave owners want them counted as is, that is, without the 3/5ths adjustment?
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
And Indians who didn’t pay taxes were not counted at all so they were 0/5ths of a person?
[/quote]
Indians, were specifically addressed in Article I section 2.
Why would they be counted as part of American’s population for Representation purposes?
Why would they be counted as part of American’s population for Representation purposes?
[/quote]
Exactly. It was about population numbers for the purposes of representation. It wasn’t about whether or not a slave or black person, was a person. You finally got it.
Abortion is still legal so how is your argument working for you? [/quote]
Quite well actually. I have no blood on my hands, sleep sound at night knowing that my position is one that defends the lives of others, and is certainly more enlightened than the barbarians who celebrate the murder of innocents.
Again, you can continue to try and play the semantic game to rationalize the murder of innocent children. At least you aren’t calling kids parasites or claiming a sperm is a human being.
But, end of the day, it is on you. You know just as I do, you are on the wrong side of history here. You can play word games, appeal to authority of law or the dictionary (lol) all you want. You know what abortion is, you understand fully the parallels between the arguments for it and the same arguments the same Democrats used to justify slavery…
You know all this, yet still defend murder.
shrug
Like I’ve said before, changing laws doesn’t change anything. It is a cultural change we need. You’re just not an early adaptor I guess.
Why would they be counted as part of American’s population for Representation purposes?
[/quote]
Exactly. It was about population numbers for the purposes of representation. It wasn’t about whether or not a slave or black person, was a person. You finally got it. [/quote]
No…
It implicity states slaves are less than whites.
European visitors wouldn’t be counted BECAUSE it is about representation. If we counted European visitors than the WHITE ones would of been counted.
And if, as you state, slavery was justified by the belief that blacks were not people then why did slave owners want them counted as is, that is, without the 3/5ths adjustment?
[/quote]
So they would have more representation in Congress so they could keep the slaves they had.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Like I’ve said before, changing laws doesn’t change anything. It is a cultural change we need. You’re just not an early adaptor I guess. [/quote]
Had you actually read anything I posted you would have seen that, that is what I am talking about.
That’s why I am saying that the whole trying to call a zygote a person/human being argument is flawed because there already exists a definition for person. It does not apply to a zygote. Continuing to claim that a zygote is a person is pointless. Therefore, the idea of what a person is needs to change.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Like I’ve said before, changing laws doesn’t change anything. It is a cultural change we need. You’re just not an early adaptor I guess. [/quote]
Had you actually read anything I posted you would have seen that, that is what I am talking about.
That’s why I am saying that the whole trying to call a zygote a person/human being argument is flawed because there already exists a definition for person. It does not apply to a zygote. Continuing to claim that a zygote is a person is pointless. Therefore, the idea of what a person is needs to change. [/quote]
No one goes to Planned Parenthood to have a Zygote aborted.
[/quote]
It does not. They are less what? And when you say that enslaved blacks are less “whatever” than whites but free blacks are not, then you ruin your whole argument. It goes from blacks are less than whites (less what, I don’t know) to some blacks are less than whites. And those blacks are not less because of their race but because of the condition of slavery. Thus, slavery makes one “less” and not race.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Continuing to claim that a zygote is a person is pointless. Therefore [/quote]
Therefore facts are pointless to the pro-murder world view…
Okay, got ya. [/quote]
It’s OK, I get it. You’re a douche who had to hijack the thread to include slavery for some reason. You throw out things like me being pro slavery and pro murder. Again, I get it. It’s the internet and some people have to win it. It’s OK because Obama is president. Abortion is legal. And you get to live in that paradise known as Boston. Your real problem is that you don’t know your intellectual limits. You can talk about economics and finances but that’s about it.
[/quote]
It does not. They are less what? And when you say that enslaved blacks are less “whatever” than whites but free blacks are not, then you ruin your whole argument. It goes from blacks are less than whites (less what, I don’t know) to some blacks are less than whites. And those blacks are not less because of their race but because of the condition of slavery. Thus, slavery makes one “less” and not race. [/quote]
Is 5/5ths < 3/5ths or is 3/5ths < 5/5ths?
Less of a person You know the LEGAL Definition of a person, whatever that is.
Slavers were considered inferior. Most of them were black…
[quote]pat wrote:
So… prove me wrong. Prove it’s not a human life.
[/quote]
I don’t need to because you were asked to prove it is a person/human being. Keep in mind that there is a legal and dictionary definition. You are arguing something that even pro-abortion people don’t dispute. It’s a given that a zygote, embryo or fetus is a human organism. [/quote]
Unless you can come up with other human organisms that are not human beings we are talking about one thing. I just posted a ream of scientific evidence to back up the claim. You have proven nothing.
Your argument is flawed because it require denying reality to buy into it. If that’s your angle, go nuts but you will lose.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
In the past the law hasn’t recognized a black “entity” as a person. [/quote]
lol, his mind is so closed here, he literally can’t see that he makes the same arguments that were made for justification of slavery, in order to justify abortion.
Doesn’t even see that…
Not even for a second, even when it is pointed out to him. [/quote]
The thing is that it is not the same argument. You actually believe the pro-slavery side claimed blacks were not human beings? The Greeks thought their slaves were not human beings? [/quote]
lol, you just keep on rationalizing and justifying the murder of people with semantics. Let me know how that works out for you. [/quote]
Abortion is still legal so how is your argument working for you?
And why avoid the slavery question you brought up? Because it has nothing to do with abortion and your entire premise, that blacks were not considered persons, was wrong. [/quote]
Well, then explain why Scott Peterson and Kermit Gosnell are in jail for murder of the unborn? The law is apparently not that clear.
We are not working with legal definitions, we’re working with reality. Reality dictates that the law to allow the killing of human beings is wrong, or the law that doesn’t allow the killing of more human beings is wrong.
Reality and the law aren’t always parallel. Just because it’s legal does not mean it’s right or it should be.
You’re really reaching.
Now provide a single shred of evidence that the unborn is anything but a human being.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
You’re a douche who had to hijack the thread to include slavery for some reason.[/quote]
DAT AD HOM!
You win the internet, you call me a douche.
And more whining because I drew the parallel between Democrat slavery arguments and Democrat abortion arguments, and you don’t like that. Does it the truth make you feel bad or something?
More ad hom…
How touching. You’ve got to the point where you’ve completely melted down and can’t even make coherent justifications for murder, so now your attacking the man to try and continue your flawed line of reason. Nice, sure fire strategy.
