[quote]Vicomte wrote:
ctschneider wrote:
All my previous joking aside, I have to agree with Hungry on this one. Being suicidal has nothing to do with weakness of character or poor morals or stupidity or whatever. It is, more often than not, the result of a chemical imbalance.
Why would one of the side affects of certain antidepressants be increased risk of suicide, if suicidal tendencies were not related to a chemical imbalance within the brain.
I don’t want to really get into it, out of respect for Hungry, but if the antidepressant is meant to fix the imbalance, then why do they make people more suicidal? If the imbalance is the cause? People say chemical imbalances cause depression, but if that’s true, then who’s to say the depression doesn’t cause the imbalance?
Am I depressed because the chemicals in my brain tell me to be, or are the chemicals that way because I am depressed?
I’m sure my brain chemistry is way different when I’m in a bad mood than good, but maybe that’s because I choose the mood and the chemicals follow suit, rather than the other way around.
That ‘chemical imbalance’ thing has always stuck me as the same as those ads for supps that say you’re fat because of cortisol. You’re fat because you eat too much.[/quote]
Brain chemistry is such a complex thing that what drug may work for one, it may cause another reaction in another. That’s why there’s so many anti-depressants and other drugs that are prescribed for depression.
My last girfriend had to try different meds before settling on one that gave her the desired affect, without so many side effects.
[quote]Ronsauce wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
Parents have nothing to do with self-worth. That doesn’t even make sense. No one gives you or teaches you self-worth. It’s instinctual, or should be.
Are you kidding? You don’t think that a kid who’s told he’s worthless time and time again will probably have a deflated sense of self-worth compared to a kid who’s constantly praised?
I’m not saying this was the case here, but I can’t help but feel your statement is just wrong.[/quote]
I think it’s entirely dependent on the kid. Someone tells you you’re worthless, you show them how much you’re worth. No one constantly praised me, and I have incredible self worth.
I can remember quite a few times people(including my parents) made me feel worthless, even if they didn’t say it in as many words. If I can do it, so can anyone else. I’m not special.
…unless you’re a little kid who figures adults know what they’re talking about. A kid hears enough of it, then why in the world would he ever develop any kind of self-worth?
[quote]imhungry wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
ctschneider wrote:
All my previous joking aside, I have to agree with Hungry on this one. Being suicidal has nothing to do with weakness of character or poor morals or stupidity or whatever. It is, more often than not, the result of a chemical imbalance.
Why would one of the side affects of certain antidepressants be increased risk of suicide, if suicidal tendencies were not related to a chemical imbalance within the brain.
I don’t want to really get into it, out of respect for Hungry, but if the antidepressant is meant to fix the imbalance, then why do they make people more suicidal? If the imbalance is the cause?
People say chemical imbalances cause depression, but if that’s true, then who’s to say the depression doesn’t cause the imbalance? Am I depressed because the chemicals in my brain tell me to be, or are the chemicals that way because I am depressed?
I’m sure my brain chemistry is way different when I’m in a bad mood than good, but maybe that’s because I choose the mood and the chemicals follow suit, rather than the other way around.
That ‘chemical imbalance’ thing has always stuck me as the same as those ads for supps that say you’re fat because of cortisol. You’re fat because you eat too much.
Brain chemistry is such a complex thing that what drug may work for one, it may cause another reaction in another. That’s why there’s so many anti-depressants and other drugs that are prescribed for depression.
My last girfriend had to try different meds before settling on one that gave her the desired affect, without so many side effects.[/quote]
I don’t want to comment too much on something I know little about. I’ll just say that there are certain ‘mental conditions’ I feel are much more due to personal choice than biological trigger. Perhaps this is simply because I don’t have any of them, or maybe I don’t have them because of my beliefs.
I suppose one cannot really say. But lots of times, depression, ADD, addictions, these things seem like excuses for lack of self-control.
I’m not saying schizophrenics are faking it, or narcoleptics are just tired, but I’ve seen a lot of ‘depressed’ people that were just indolent bastards with shit lives caused by their own doing, or kids with ADHD that just liked being assholes and doing stupid shit.
No disrespect, Hungry, but I can only speak of my own experience.
[quote]Ronsauce wrote:
Vicomte wrote:Someone tells you you’re worthless, you show them how much you’re worth.
…unless you’re a little kid who figures adults know what they’re talking about. A kid hears enough of it, then why in the world would he ever develop any kind of self-worth?
No one constantly praised me, and I have incredible self worth. I can remember quite a few times people(including my parents) made me feel worthless, even if they didn’t say it in as many words. If I can do it, so can anyone else. I’m not special.
Good for you…and your being wrong.[/quote]
I’m not talking about little kids, Little kids will believe pretty much whatever you tell them. But one day those kids grow up and have thoughts of their own, or should, and they see that adults don’t know everything. I learned that when I was eight fucking years old.
My being wrong about what, exactly? Do you have the same philosophy and thoughts as when you were little? We grow up and we form our own opinions; if your opinion is that you’re worthless, then you failed. Not whomever told you you were worthless.
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
imhungry wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
ctschneider wrote:
All my previous joking aside, I have to agree with Hungry on this one. Being suicidal has nothing to do with weakness of character or poor morals or stupidity or whatever. It is, more often than not, the result of a chemical imbalance.
Why would one of the side affects of certain antidepressants be increased risk of suicide, if suicidal tendencies were not related to a chemical imbalance within the brain.
I don’t want to really get into it, out of respect for Hungry, but if the antidepressant is meant to fix the imbalance, then why do they make people more suicidal?
If the imbalance is the cause? People say chemical imbalances cause depression, but if that’s true, then who’s to say the depression doesn’t cause the imbalance? Am I depressed because the chemicals in my brain tell me to be, or are the chemicals that way because I am depressed?
I’m sure my brain chemistry is way different when I’m in a bad mood than good, but maybe that’s because I choose the mood and the chemicals follow suit, rather than the other way around.
That ‘chemical imbalance’ thing has always stuck me as the same as those ads for supps that say you’re fat because of cortisol. You’re fat because you eat too much.
Brain chemistry is such a complex thing that what drug may work for one, it may cause another reaction in another.
That’s why there’s so many anti-depressants and other drugs that are prescribed for depression.
My last girfriend had to try different meds before settling on one that gave her the desired affect, without so many side effects.
I don’t want to comment too much on something I know little about. I’ll just say that there are certain ‘mental conditions’ I feel are much more due to personal choice than biological trigger. Perhaps this is simply because I don’t have any of them, or maybe I don’t have them because of my beliefs.
I suppose one cannot really say. But lots of times, depression, ADD, addictions, these things seem like excuses for lack of self-control. I’m not saying schizophrenics are faking it, or narcoleptics are just tired, but I’ve seen a lot of ‘depressed’ people that were just indolent bastards with shit lives caused by their own doing, or kids with ADHD that just liked being assholes and doing stupid shit.
No disrespect, Hungry, but I can only speak of my own experience.[/quote]
I totally understand what you’re saying, vic, and again, I agree with you to a certain extent. It’s like just given out like it’s nothing. Hell, the doc prescribed me an anti-depressant to combat some of my high blood pressure meds. Fuck that.
But, I was involved with 2 women who have had mental issues, but they were different in how they affected each other.
I’ll probably share my experiences with this, tomorrow.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bujo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
What’s funny is running into the “finest girl in school” after three kids, dropping out of college, and gaining 50lbs of blubber.
Dammit, why did you have to kill the dream.
Trust me, had I known in high school the way things would turn out, I would have adopted that “fuck it” attitude about 5 or so years earlier.
To anyone in high school…high school does not matter. None of the shit you worry about right now (aside from grades) will be worth 3 seconds of random thought 5 years later…and even your high school grades won’t matter after you hit college.
-They think you look funny?
Fuck it
-You’re a girl with no boobs?
Fuck it…marry a guy who will buy you some.
-You’re 16 and you haven’t been laid yet?
Seriously, fuck it.
No, really, fuck it. You need the practice.
That last one is partially a joke but I’m not sure which part.[/quote]
You are right. I hate when people talk about how highschool was the best time of their life. How the hell can it be the best time in your life when you still live with your parents, aren’t old enough to legally buy a drink, are still going through puberty, don’t have a car half the time, have no money to play with.
[quote]eric_lacrosse wrote:
Professor X wrote:
It’s like there’s no middle ground anymore. They either make it so there is NO teasing at all which creates weak little whining cretins who think their every move should be praised…or you get kids harassing someone to the point of suicide.
What a hypocrite you are.
Anyone under 200 lbs gets the wrath of Professor X as if they are a loser because they or their training do not fit into your narrow definition of bodybuilding.
No further comment.[/quote]
I’m sorry, doofus, but what part of [quote]NO teasing at all which creates weak little whining cretins who think their every move should be praised[/quote] didn’t you understand?
I think they should have something on the guy’s record, maybe not a felony (but I’m not against that idea) but something that pretty much says:
“Was the cause of a girl’s suicide.”
And have that shit public. Why can we hold kids responsible for their actions - punishing them - but NOT legally responsible for the same actions? I don’t get it.
If I was that girl’s father I would take a shovel to the boy’s home, a film crew, and make him dig a grave for my daughter. If he cried or showed any emotion, I’d knock his teeth out and make him swallow them. One by one.
[quote]Vicomte wrote:I’m not talking about little kids, Little kids will believe pretty much whatever you tell them. But one day those kids grow up and have thoughts of their own, or should, and they see that adults don’t know everything. I learned that when I was eight fucking years old.
My being wrong about what, exactly? Do you have the same philosophy and thoughts as when you were little? We grow up and we form our own opinions; if your opinion is that you’re worthless, then you failed. Not whomever told you you were worthless.[/quote]
You’re basically saying that parents have no effect on their kids’ personalities simply because the can choose to disbelieve what they were told as soon as they get older. That’s such a ridiculous notion.
[quote]Ronsauce wrote:
Vicomte wrote:I’m not talking about little kids, Little kids will believe pretty much whatever you tell them. But one day those kids grow up and have thoughts of their own, or should, and they see that adults don’t know everything. I learned that when I was eight fucking years old.
My being wrong about what, exactly? Do you have the same philosophy and thoughts as when you were little? We grow up and we form our own opinions; if your opinion is that you’re worthless, then you failed. Not whomever told you you were worthless.
You’re basically saying that parents have no effect on their kids’ personalities simply because the can choose to disbelieve what they were told as soon as they get older. That’s such a ridiculous notion.
[/quote]
In this case, it’s ridiculous to believe anyone can make you think you don’t deserve existence. We’re not talking about the finer points of ‘You’re face will get stuck like that’ (which oddly enough I chose not to believe as I grew up, despite my parents’ contrary opinion. Parents have effects on their kids personalties to some degree, but the truly ridiculous notion is the one where people are only an amalgamation of what their parents told them they were.
Perhaps you still believe everything your parents told you. I don’t.
[quote]Vicomte wrote:
Ronsauce wrote:
Vicomte wrote:I’m not talking about little kids, Little kids will believe pretty much whatever you tell them. But one day those kids grow up and have thoughts of their own, or should, and they see that adults don’t know everything. I learned that when I was eight fucking years old.
My being wrong about what, exactly? Do you have the same philosophy and thoughts as when you were little? We grow up and we form our own opinions; if your opinion is that you’re worthless, then you failed. Not whomever told you you were worthless.
You’re basically saying that parents have no effect on their kids’ personalities simply because the can choose to disbelieve what they were told as soon as they get older. That’s such a ridiculous notion.
In this case, it’s ridiculous to believe anyone can make you think you don’t deserve existence. We’re not talking about the finer points of ‘You’re face will get stuck like that’ (which oddly enough I chose not to believe as I grew up, despite my parents’ contrary opinion. Parents have effects on their kids personalties to some degree, but the truly ridiculous notion is the one where people are only an amalgamation of what their parents told them they were.
Perhaps you still believe everything your parents told you. I don’t.[/quote]
This debate is getting stupid. You ARE an amalgamation of the ideas, values and standards of your guardians and peers. That is simply fact, not opinion. That does not mean you are without individual thought, however, the idea that all people simply reject the way they were raised or the ideas and beliefs of their peers and somehow adopt some completely different set of standards would be rare indeed unless that person were separated from their environment for extended periods of time while growing up.
Depression is not some made up psychological state. Many believe it is the result of chemical/hormonal imbalances. Someone leaning towards suicide may very well have that issue.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
[i]"The image was blurred and the voice distorted, but the words spoken by a young Ohio woman are haunting. She had sent nude pictures of herself to a boyfriend. When they broke up, he sent them to other high school girls. The girls were harassing her, calling her a slut and a whore. She was miserable and depressed, afraid even to go to school.
And now Jesse Logan was going on a Cincinnati television station to tell her story. Her purpose was simple: ?I just want to make sure no one else will have to go through this again.?
The interview was in May 2008. Two months later, Jessica Logan hanged herself in her bedroom. She was 18."[/i]
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
Ronsauce wrote:
Vicomte wrote:I’m not talking about little kids, Little kids will believe pretty much whatever you tell them. But one day those kids grow up and have thoughts of their own, or should, and they see that adults don’t know everything. I learned that when I was eight fucking years old.
My being wrong about what, exactly? Do you have the same philosophy and thoughts as when you were little? We grow up and we form our own opinions; if your opinion is that you’re worthless, then you failed. Not whomever told you you were worthless.
You’re basically saying that parents have no effect on their kids’ personalities simply because the can choose to disbelieve what they were told as soon as they get older. That’s such a ridiculous notion.
In this case, it’s ridiculous to believe anyone can make you think you don’t deserve existence. We’re not talking about the finer points of ‘You’re face will get stuck like that’ (which oddly enough I chose not to believe as I grew up, despite my parents’ contrary opinion. Parents have effects on their kids personalties to some degree, but the truly ridiculous notion is the one where people are only an amalgamation of what their parents told them they were.
Perhaps you still believe everything your parents told you. I don’t.
This debate is getting stupid. You ARE an amalgamation of the ideas, values and standards of your guardians and peers. That is simply fact, not opinion. That does not mean you are without individual thought, however, the idea that all people simply reject the way they were raised or the ideas and beliefs of their peers and somehow adopt some completely different set of standards would be rare indeed unless that person were separated from their environment for extended periods of time while growing up.
Depression is not some made up psychological state. Many believe it is the result of chemical/hormonal imbalances. Someone leaning towards suicide may very well have that issue.[/quote]
The only reason any of us is an amalgamation of others is that we’re all made from the same stuffs(speaking figuratively, of course). How can you call it fact? It’s impossible to prove something so abstract. It’s philosophy, not science.
I’m not talking about completely rejecting the ideas of those around us, I’m talking about them being irrelevant to any given individual’s ideas. We do all have individual thought, and with it we have complete discretion over who were are and what we believe. The way I see it, we all begin tabula rasa, only we are not told how to be, we are merely suggested how to be. The ultimate choice of who you are is yours and yours alone. Of course there is influence, but influence can be ignored or indulged at will.
Some times you believe something because someone told you to, and you agree; some times you believe the opposite because you disagree; and some times you believe something entirely separate and having nothing to do with being for or against, because you’ve created it for yourself(which may indeed be an amalgamation of other ideas, but only in the way all the elements are an amalgamation of subatomic particles). I may just be pieces of everyone I know, but if that’s true the pieces are so ridiculously small and varied that I am able to form them into something regardless of where they came from.
)[/quote]