TED Talks : Enough With The Fear Of Being Fat

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I actually see it as the opposite of this. Needle exchange programs, and BC pills for sexually active youth, are practical, harm-reducing responses to less-than-ideal behaviors. They are pragmatic responses, not defeatist. And while IV drug use and/or teen sex may offend one’s moral/religious sensibilities, those of us who favor needle exchanges and birth control consider harm-reduction to be a more worthy and compelling goal than is sticking to one’s ideological guns. (As an aside, one could argue also that harm-reduction is a more moral response than are the other options, but that’s perhaps a discussion for another thread.)

Put simply: Some hills just aren’t worth dying on.

In contrast, responding to morbid obesity (as in the case of the TED speaker) by advocating for ‘fat acceptance’ is to prioritize defense of a moral ideology over practical, harm-reducing responses.

Put simply: If you’re too obese to even climb that hill, you don’t really have the option of dying on it.

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103

True. Maybe not great analogies. I can’t think of a good one that doesn’t begin to breakdown.

I guess if I had some knowledge that this obese person is suicidal, so accepting their condition is somehow saving their life, even if it’s likely to be a shorter than optimal lifespan then at least her own self-acceptance would become the pragmatic/ reasonable alternative? Does that make sense?

Yes. She’s not just about accepting herself, she’d like to change the perception of everybody else. I can still sympathize with that in that it’s not my job to be cruel to anybody, or to add to her burden.

Just another thought. I have no idea, but I wonder how many obese people are just self-medicating depression? As in, what percentage would get thinner if you just tried to treat that. I’m sure we could look this up. Our idea of this is often flipped around, right? People tell themselves that if they could just loose the weight they’d be happy. Then you see some people who do gastric bypass surgery and find that they are still miserable, or begin self-medicating with alcohol when food is no longer an option. This isn’t something I know much about. She seems to be saying that she’s living a happy full life as is, nothing broken.

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I’m not sure “less-than-ideal” is really an apt way of describing those behaviors.

While some (I’ll even venture to say most) teen girls are sexually active as teens and end up perfectly well adjusted and fine, many, many, many don’t. People are impulsive at that age, too eager to please and tend to have low self esteem. There is a body of research out there that does show the benefits of not being all that sexually active as a teen.

Now my daughter has a 2 year boyfriend and dude isn’t a douche rocket? I’m not going to worry about it, because both me and my wife will have discussed sex, desire, consent, decency etc by the time she’ll be on BC. (Which will likely be early given neither me nor her mother have great skin, and it helps with that.)

But there are too many cases where teen sex is pretty far from “less-than-ideal”.

I doubt you’ll defend IV Drug use…

Yes I’m arguing semantics, but it’s important when your stance rests on:

Because like I said, there is sexual activity my teens will have that won’t worry about beyond normal pregnancy and STI fears, and others that will have me very much on edge, if not down right irate.

There is zero times I’ll ever not dye on the hill for either of my kids, or anyone I’m close to when it comes to the needle. I will always have a zero tolerance policy, and do everything in my power to help them get clean. I will NOT enable in any way though.

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105

To be clear, I agree with you. I don’t want them to kill themselves. I also believe many have serious underlying medical issues, many of which they have been lead into by our government and society. I’m not claiming to be helpful for her, I’m just quite literally an honest asshole that isn’t going to change anytime soon. If you don’t want my opinion, don’t ask. It’s not like I’m walking down the street calling people out. This woman however is purposely putting herself out there in the public eye, pushing an agenda. She is fat, unhealthy, and should do something to change. And I think if she really did love herself, like she claims, she wouldn’t accept herself as she is, she’d want better for the person she loves. So, her loving herself is probably also a lie when deep down she hates herself every night while eating that half gallon of ice cream. Again, not claiming to have the answer for her, just calling it like I see it.

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106

Indeed I won’t. But then, I wasn’t defending teen sex either. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that the number of teens who are prepared (emotionally) to engage in sex approaches zero.

As for needle-exchange programs, my comment concerned the public-health aspect of IVDU–shared needles leads to transmission of HIV, HBV, HCV, et al, among addicts, who in turn transmit these diseases to their intimate associates, who in turn transmit them to their intimate associates, etc. Needle-exchange programs limit such ‘collateral damage.’

It was not my intent to suggest that parents should enable IVDU by their children in a way analogous to providing birth control to them, but I can see how my comment led you to that inference.

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It really does, and it’s hard for me to sit on my high horse about it, as I was a hornball getting all up in whatever would have me, lol.

I guess I’d just prefer we use a bit harsher term than “less than ideal”.

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Yeah, just to be clear, I wasn’t condemning needle exchange programs or putting a hypothetical sexually-active kid on BC. I was just thinking of other health-related problems with a behavioral component where we sometimes end up doing something short of fixing it the way we’d want to fix it. Defeatist was probably a bad word choice. EyeDentist used pragmatic, which is better. We’d rather see this person in a program to treat morbid obesity, right? Just as we’d rather see a childhood friend in rehab, instead of at a needle exchange, but we’d give her needles if that were the only option to keep her from getting hepatitis or HIV.

The BC thing has been on my mind. Last week I stayed up late talking to a friend. Her sixteen-year-old daughter is big time in love with her boyfriend. My friend is about to go crazy with this phone app that lets you track your kid’s cell phone. When her daughter is out with him, she’s watching that app, and texting her daughter if she sees they’ve parked somewhere for more than 5 minutes. Fun times. Apparently, this is what middle-aged moms do on the weekend! For now, her daughter is telling her that they aren’t having sex. She’s deciding if she should just put her on the pill, wondering if she’s in denial about her kid being honest and frank with her, and fretting about inadvertently giving approval if they aren’t doing it. This is all “less than ideal.” Haha.

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But I wouldn’t, ever, give a junkie a needle. I’d call the damn cops on my own kids for selling the poison.

Yes I’d bring anyone to rehab, give them money while there, write to them, talk about the books we’d read together and go to meetings with them. I’d never once in my life give them a needle. If they choose to put it in their arm, and it kills them, that is on them.

Just like the fat chick. I’d prefer she slimmed down and stopped trying to shame me into silence or compliance, but I dont’ care. If I’m the last person on earth left that is willing to call a fat person fat, and then so be it. I’d help her just like above, but I’ll be damned before I sit back and let her or anything think being THAT big is “okay” if they ask. I’m not going out of my way to put her down, but if anyone asks my opinion, I’m giving it.

But all that said, I’m not some dude who only finds 105# thin chicks attractive. In fact I’m not a fan of “muscle tone” on women. She can be jacked as fuck, but I’d prefer a layer of fat over it. I do find some “chubby” chicks fine as hell. It’s more about shape than size for me, and even then, I could totally fall in love with a “fatty” without question. (My wife is skinny and hot, thank god lol.)

That app would give me TOO MUCH anxiety. I’d never use it, my wife can though.

My planned approach is thus:

  1. Teach her about sex, love, and how to combat peer pressure
  2. put her in karate, and soon
  3. Teach her to shoot
  4. Get her lifting
  5. Love every single dude she brings home no matter what.
  6. Be chill about them going out, hanging out etc, but there will be some strict rules, that once broken end in significant consequences.

More on this later I have to jet for now.

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110

The thing that rubs me wrong with the acceptance message of this is that it takes a good concept- acceptance, and turns it into a tool of manipulation.

I had to accept the fact that I have a problem with substance abuse- Then do something about it. Get clean, sober up, and maintain that. Reshape my life into something that works for me and the people I have obligations to, and become more useful in the process.

All she’s doing is pointing her finger at the rest of the world and rationalizing her condition and behaviors. I don’t see that as true self acceptance. I see it as wishful thinking, in that if everybody else thinks she is normal, then she will see herself as normal.

Granted, I could be wrong, but I’ve seen the same game being played by people much smarter and well equipped to play it than her. But at the end of the day, it comes down to rationalizing why they should be allowed to continue doing something that they know is harmful.

It would have been much more informative if she had titled it “Fear of Change” and expounded upon why that is so difficult for her to overcome.

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111

If you will indulge a cliche…Actions speak louder than words. By her behavior (ie, vigilantly monitoring her daughter’s whereabouts; repeatedly texting her daughter when the phone is stationary), it is clear mom does not believe her daughter’s claim of abstinence. Further, with every ‘Whatcha doing?’ text she sends, mom conveys this lack-of-belief quite plainly, saying in effect ‘You tell me you aren’t having sex, but I don’t believe you.’ Sounds like a mother/daughter relationship that’s destined to hit a rough patch soon.

(Spoken as the father of a now-19 y.o. daughter who was ‘big time in love’ at 17 with her then-BF.)

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It is debatable whether someone in the throes of addiction is capable of making the sort of decision that could reasonably be called a ‘choice.’

But setting that aside for the moment: If they ‘choose to put it in their arm,’ and by doing so infect their unborn child with HIV, how would you explain your anti-needle-exchange stance to that child?

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@ … we’d rather see a childhood friend in rehab, instead of at a needle exchange, but we’d give her needles if that were the only option

Sorry to use “we.” Thanks for clarifying. I just donated feminine hygiene supplies to a local needle exchange program. Come at me, Bro. wink.

Me either!

Agree, 100 percent. Unfortunately, I’d say it’s well into the rough patch. She’s going to have to relax if she doesn’t want to ruin her relationship entirely. All the hovering is having the opposite effect of keeping communication open. She’s been burned by an older child who got into lots of trouble, so the younger one is paying for that a bit. It’s understandable, but still “not ideal.”

114

I disagree. Every addict knows that they either have to get another fix or detox. The choice is whether to use or detox.

Granted, there are some very compelling drivers (both neurological and psychological) toward using and really only one (but its a doozie) to detox, but those choices are made every day by millions of people.

115

I’m afraid that, like the misunderstanding with CB above re enabling one’s children to use IV drugs, I am once again guilty of expressing my thoughts poorly.

You’re right of course. Addicts are capable of choosing not to use–if they weren’t, there’d be no such thing as an addict-in-recovery. However, I wonder if you would agree that most (not in-recovery) addicts don’t really engage in such a choice until/unless they have a moment of insight–be it from quote-unquote ‘hitting rock-bottom,’ or via the comment of a loved one, or any of numerous other insight-inducing events. What I’m suggesting is that for most not-in-recovery addicts most of the time, there’s not much by way of a choice being made.

In stark contrast, recovering addicts make such choices literally every day–some days, many, many times.

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Generally I agree with you, and most likely also agree on the majority of specifics.

Its only in hindsight that I can say that the choice is always there, even if it can’t be seen or comprehended.

117

Sure looks like it…

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Why do I have to?

How, in anyway on Earth, is it my responsibility to explain anything to that kid?

But, either way: “Your mother made some really sad, depressing and miserable life choices, and unfortunately you are going to have to pay an ultimate price for her shitty actions. I’m sorry not everyone is cut out to be a good parent and you ended up suffering for it.”

I feel like you’re trying to remove the personal responsibility from the disease. It’s still a choice, and it’s irrelevant that some people (and almost all addicts) are fighting the pleasure center of their brain and it’s wonderful chemicals and reactions. It’s still a choice.

I’d say there are net zero people that aren’t well aware of the possible consequences of putting that needle in their arm the first time, popping that pill the first time or blowing that first line.

There is a reason I’ve never touched blow or heroin, but have done plenty of other drugs. There is a reason I’ve never finished a bottle of prescription pain meds.

I’m NOT saying it’s easy. I’m NOT saying most don’t need help to get clean, and I’m not saying it isn’t a sickness. But it is, without a doubt a self inflicted problem 99% of the time, and can only be corrected by self awareness and choice. So taking away the “choice” in the rationalization and justification of the action leaves them hopeless…

We do something similar. A lot of the parents involved in the program we participate in are active or recovering addicts.

There is a balance though, and if her and the father are still married, they may be able to use each other to strike it.

My son is about to turn 19, and my wife is the worry wart up his ass, and I’m the one that explains to him what he has to do to get that to stop, and presses my wife to relax about him going out etc. (For instance, he left, didn’t tell here where he was going or when he’d be home, and didn’t answer his phone for a couple hours. She was flipping out. I told her to relax. Well, he then finally texts and says he’ll be home at XXpm, but didn’t bring his key… Kermit face I had to explain to him that not only is it impossible for me to convince her to relax if he can’t be smart enough to bring his key, but it also makes me look like an asshole arguing for an “am” curfew when he doesn’t even have his god damn key…)

I’m sure we’ll switch roles for my daughter when she is that age…

And yes, our adult son has a curfew. My wife’s rules are: you live in this house, you will abide by my rules, and my rule is my son has a curfew. (Which realistically means "communicate with me what time you’ll be home, if you’ll be home, and I’ll agree that is an appropriate time.)

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119

Not to derail from the topic too much but am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that statistics show that low income adults/children are more likely to suffer from obesity in the US.

In the end, it all comes down to ignorance and lack of effort. I honestly can’t imagine any other logical reason. Poor people are fat. That’s just not how it works man. Then this is the part someone says how McDonalds be cheap and hence poor people eat more McDonalds and hence they fat. You can eat McDonalds and lose weight. Hell, you can even eat McDonalds and build some damn muscle. A dollar menu mcdouble has 25g of protein, just throw away the damn bread. If someone gave me free food from McDonalds for the rest of my life, you bet I’ll be eating there every damn day. A salad + some meat patties + water, that’s sufficient. Sure, it might not be the most organic or natural option considering the amount of processing and such but it’ll work fine.

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Also, McDonalds is not cheaper than the grocery store and it is more expensive to eat to gain weight than not.

Maybe the same thing that makes them fail at managing finances makes them fail at managing their health.

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121

If you played a role in precluding mom’s access to a needle-exchange program that would have prevented her from passing HIV to the child, I would say you are indirectly responsible for that transmission, and thus definitely owe the child an explanation.

Blaming the mom is a cop-out. The point is, YOU could have done something to prevent the child from contracting the dz (by way of supporting a needle-exchange program), and chose not to. I dare say in this regard that the child would consider you to have made ‘some really sad, depressing and miserable choices,’ even more so than the mom. She was in the throes of addiction at the time she made the decision that led to the child contracting HIV. What’s your excuse?

Irrelevant??!! They’re called ‘addictions’ for a reason. It seems to me you’re trying to remove chemical addiction from the realm of ‘disease’ and re-locate it in the realm of ‘personal failing.’

I would disagree with this. For one thing, many people are impaired (eg, drunk; stoned) when they first use harder drugs. Additionally, many others become opioid addicts by way of prescription pain meds for chronic conditions.

I’d say you’re making my argument for me right here.