TED Obesity Video

Off Topic
41

[quote]mrw173 wrote:

Where did I insinuate that I had a solution? Like I’ve said several times in this thread, obesity is a complex issue with multiple causes and many reasons to believe that multiple points of intervention are necessary.

One of my arguments in the thread has been to point out that the “personal responsibility” argument is not only flawed but that it’s worthless in terms of generating solutions to the problem.

My other argument has been that limiting availability to small kids in the schools (something you are also for) as well as educational programs (nutrition, cooking, etc.) COULD be helpful. Whether or not it would be effective is an empirical question. I don’t pretend to have the answers before an intervention is tested.[/quote]

Personal responsibility can also BE the solution. If people want to become so fat they kill themselves off, maybe the real solution is to let them.

I am all for providing programs or whatever, but people have proven time and again that they really just don’t give a shit. Society will label the “muffin top” as something cute…so now I see hoards of girls that would have been considered chubby in the 80’s now walking around with their belly button “shower curtain rings” sticking out while their low cut jeans strain under the force of 400 foot pounds of pressure.

There used to be one fat kid in my school who got teased. He usually leaned out by senior year due to the pressure. Now, The whole fucking class is fat…and we solve this problem by making it so no one teases anyone anymore…and everyone gets gold stars just for showing up…so no one fails.

I am thinking society as whole is more of a problem for allowing this crap to be socially acceptable.

You can get teased more now for having big muscles than some 400lbs obese man.

We have had ‘school classes on nutrition’ for decades now as the problem got worse. That is clearly NOT the solution at this point because kids are not going to care about this if their parents don’t.

42

[quote]Professor X wrote:
We have had ‘school classes on nutrition’ for decades now as the problem got worse. That is clearly NOT the solution at this point because kids are not going to care about this if their parents don’t.[/quote]

Parents are part of the input, I’m one. You can teach (or not teach), some priciples at home, if the exterior input is greater, the child will do what the majority says.

Example : If you say don’t swear at home, but the oncles/grandparents/friends/teachers swear all the long, the child may not do it at home because of obedience, but when grown, they’ll do what the greater input told them : Swear their mouths off.

When the school, the TV/Internet/radio, their friends (and their friends’ parents) show them how to behave in a sounder ways, explain the consequences wisely, the kids WILL bring this attitude at home, and educate their parents.

But the problem is change, nobody wants any, it takes you out of your comfort zone, even if this way of living is killing you.

I’ve changed, got healthier. My older child calls me “Vegetable dad” as I eat natural greens every family noon and evening meal. He complains about it, but is astonished when he hasn’t some elsewhere…

43

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Personal responsibility can also BE the solution. If people want to become so fat they kill themselves off, maybe the real solution is to let them.

I am all for providing programs or whatever, but people have proven time and again that they really just don’t give a shit. Society will label the “muffin top” as something cute…so now I see hoards of girls that would have been considered chubby in the 80’s now walking around with their belly button “shower curtain rings” sticking out while their low cut jeans strain under the force of 400 foot pounds of pressure.

There used to be one fat kid in my school who got teased. He usually leaned out by senior year due to the pressure. Now, The whole fucking class is fat…and we solve this problem by making it so no one teases anyone anymore…and everyone gets gold stars just for showing up…so no one fails.

I am thinking society as whole is more of a problem for allowing this crap to be socially acceptable.

You can get teased more now for having big muscles than some 400lbs obese man.
[/quote]

Agreed. It is more socially acceptable to be grossly obese in this country than ever before. That’s why I get disgusted at the “fat acceptance” blogs and other crap like it. Things like participation awards and noncontingent rewards are royally screwing this country up.

Lack of sense of responsibility didn’t come out of the blue. There is something (or somethings) responsible for it. It’s more useful to identify the things responsible for what we are seeing in parents these days, rather than cite obesity being caused by a “lack of personal responsibility” and calling it a day.

[quote]
We have had ‘school classes on nutrition’ for decades now as the problem got worse. That is clearly NOT the solution at this point because kids are not going to care about this if their parents don’t.[/quote]

Clearly those educational programs need work when kids cannot tell the difference between a potato and tomato. The variable in question here, then is HOW to effectively deliver education, not if.

44

Prof X, i think you over estimate the…“mental capacity” of most people.
They get most of their info from family members, friends and the media. It’s one giant circle jerk of misinformation. I honestly think it isn’t their fault. There is just no one to educate them on the matter.
You say they don’t try to seek out proper knowledge, but how do you know this? How do you know that maybe they did seek it out, and were given terrible info.

I agree that people should be left to fend for themselves. I think that is one way of solving most problems.
“Either smarten up, or get fucked”.

At the end of the day, we are all the Galileos of exercise and nutrition.
I tell most of my family members many things concerning physiology, nutrition/diet and exercise.
Do they listen? No. They are set in their ways about what everyone else has already told them.
People don’t like to be told they are wrong concerning their knowledge.

I think the best way to tackle this problem is educate the children. The parents are set in their ways. The next generation is what matters. Introduce the proper knowledge to those who are not biased and i think we’ll see progress.

45

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Petermus wrote:
I disagree with some of what you guys have said. Big Business has no right to do the bullshit they get away with. What the fuck kind of labeling system allows they to sell you poison but plaster all over the front… IT WONT EXPLODE so its good for you…its still fuckin poison. Labels are suppose to give us the information to make an educated choice…but instead they try to confuse people as much as possible so they can get away with shit.

The government should get in gear… school lunches are totally shit. In high school 90% of the time we had fast food style stuff like pizza or chicken paddies or french fries etc… on the days they didnt most people wouldnt eat at all. Even in middle school (3rd grade up) they had a bunch of different snacks to choose from like Ice cream and cookies. Its all shit.

I absolutely think people do need to learn how to cook properly. I’m 19 years old and have friends who cant cook. I literally know people who cant boil water and are afraid to make mac and cheese from a box. So they eat french fries… pizza and anything you have to stick in the oven or drop in a deep fryer. I started learning to cook when I was 6 years old and still cook regularly now. [/quote]

What happened to personal responsibility? How ignorant does someone have to be to see the words “low fat” and assume this means they can eat tubs of it at a time and not gain fat? The labels I’ve seen seem pretty clear and you really have to not be paying attention to avoid seeing that the serving sizes are usually quite small so they can claim less calories. It isn’t hidden. You just need common sense and the ability to count.

I see way too many overweight patients and many of these are children. They aren’t that fat from eating “low fat” meals thinking they are healthy. They are fat because the first stop after they leave the office is to buy 9 year old Bobby a sandwich at Wendy’s big enough to make me choke.[/quote]

I think we all know people are just fuckin stupid. The only time during school we were ever taught about nutrition was during an elective class…called nutrition and they focused on the government approved food pyramid etc. So… we need to make changes in education and not let companies skew labels. I know…we should be responsible for ourselves but people in general know almost nothing about food.They are overwhelmed by “low fat” diets…and all kinds of shit and gadgets that somehow make food magically healthy. If we want people to change to change things.

46

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
Prof X, i think you over estimate the…“mental capacity” of most people.
They get most of their info from family members, friends and the media. It’s one giant circle jerk of misinformation. I honestly think it isn’t their fault. There is just no one to educate them on the matter.
You say they don’t try to seek out proper knowledge, but how do you know this? How do you know that maybe they did seek it out, and were given terrible info.

I agree that people should be left to fend for themselves. I think that is one way of solving most problems.
“Either smarten up, or get fucked”.

At the end of the day, we are all the Galileos of exercise and nutrition.
I tell most of my family members many things concerning physiology, nutrition/diet and exercise.
Do they listen? No. They are set in their ways about what everyone else has already told them.
People don’t like to be told they are wrong concerning their knowledge.

I think the best way to tackle this problem is educate the children. The parents are set in their ways. The next generation is what matters. Introduce the proper knowledge to those who are not biased and i think we’ll see progress.[/quote]

The problem is, if you rely on “government resources” to teach people on a mass scale how to eat, you end up giving out wrong info, just like the current food pyramid. You simply can NOT teach individualized nutrition to 5 billion people at the same time. They are either willing to put the work in and literally SEE what works by DOING IT…much like anyone on this board with muscles big enough to make people say, “wow”…or they will succumb to more circle-jerked wrong information.

Even teaching the children on a mass scale produces the same problem. Should I really be eating all of those carbs in the food pyramid if I want my waist to stay under 40"? Should 11 year old Billy with Type II diabetes eat like that? What about the 15 year old athlete who plays BOTH basketball and football, has grown 2 inches in height since last year yet has been told that red meat is “bad” for him?

I eat the way I do for a specific purpose…even on my cheat days. Most people do not. They eat for comfort or to socialize. Until that changes, good luck with any mass program designed to tell people what to eat without them putting the work in.

47

Both Prof x and Mrw have made some very valid points. Yes parents have a large input into what growing children perceive to be good food. I believe that children, not just toddlers, are going to need some continuous guidance and general advice at home (less likely if parents are already obese) and in school, basically teaching “right and wrong” when it comes to food choices. Just like the “dont hit your sister over the head with that brush…it will make her sad and thats a bad thing to do”.

We realize growing up, that there will be consequences because of these teachings, and that’s probably one of the only effective ways of getting “good/bad nutrition” into kids heads. After that, they may still make bad choices but at least more knowingly, and not show up on opera winfrey 300lbs at age 14 saying “I don’t know how it got so bad”

Fact is, the obesity crisis didn’t just happen now, in 2010 or last year. The ball started rolling when people put time (& effort) before their health and the health of those they “care about”, large volumes of affordable food came in packets, automobiles became very affordable…fastfood was becoming less of a luxury and more of a family staple (cuz mom an dad have no time to cook).
So so many reasons why, as a race we evolved into obesity, and now accept it!

I do hope Jamie Oliver gets some of these “in school, in supermarket nutritionists”. It may not sway the direction of those who have let themselves become huge, as they have now created addictions to overcome, and lack any form of willpower. But it may help with the youth of this and the next generation. Here’s somethin similar they’re doing in Oz I think, looks good…

Anyway, rant over, need sleep lol.

/Rich

48

It’s 2010 and there is NO excuses anymore for being morbidly obese, none. The information is out there if people want to look, people get online every day to check their facebook page and bullshit with friends but can’t find this or the other 2 million sites with people who know how to manipulate their body composition.

I know there is a ton of bad advice out there but if someone wants it bad enough they can find or figure out the right way, people don’t want to. There is a weight watchers or curves on every corner these days, hell theres a freaking sidewalk right out the front door, go for a walk.

People don’t want help, they want twinkies and when they can no longer wipe their own asses they want to bitch at hostess for making them fat.
It’s truly sad that all the great people in our history lived and died to make this country what it is and we’re going to piss it away because changing things is uncomfortable.

49

[quote]dday wrote:
It’s 2010 and there is NO excuses anymore for being morbidly obese, none. The information is out there if people want to look, people get online every day to check their facebook page and bullshit with friends but can’t find this or the other 2 million sites with people who know how to manipulate their body composition.

I know there is a ton of bad advice out there but if someone wants it bad enough they can find or figure out the right way, people don’t want to. There is a weight watchers or curves on every corner these days, hell theres a freaking sidewalk right out the front door, go for a walk.

People don’t want help, they want twinkies and when they can no longer wipe their own asses they want to bitch at hostess for making them fat.
It’s truly sad that all the great people in our history lived and died to make this country what it is and we’re going to piss it away because changing things is uncomfortable.[/quote]

Exact same thing can be said for a number of different things, like socioeconomic status, education, jobs, etc. Some have it easier than others, but in the end, it’s all about how much you want it.

50

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
Prof X, i think you over estimate the…“mental capacity” of most people.
They get most of their info from family members, friends and the media. It’s one giant circle jerk of misinformation. I honestly think it isn’t their fault. There is just no one to educate them on the matter.

You say they don’t try to seek out proper knowledge, but how do you know this? How do you know that maybe they did seek it out, and were given terrible info.

I agree that people should be left to fend for themselves. I think that is one way of solving most problems.
“Either smarten up, or get fucked”.

At the end of the day, we are all the Galileos of exercise and nutrition.
I tell most of my family members many things concerning physiology, nutrition/diet and exercise.
Do they listen? No. They are set in their ways about what everyone else has already told them.
People don’t like to be told they are wrong concerning their knowledge.

I think the best way to tackle this problem is educate the children. The parents are set in their ways. The next generation is what matters. Introduce the proper knowledge to those who are not biased and i think we’ll see progress.[/quote]

The problem is, if you rely on “government resources” to teach people on a mass scale how to eat, you end up giving out wrong info, just like the current food pyramid. You simply can NOT teach individualized nutrition to 5 billion people at the same time.

They are either willing to put the work in and literally SEE what works by DOING IT…much like anyone on this board with muscles big enough to make people say, “wow”…or they will succumb to more circle-jerked wrong information.

Even teaching the children on a mass scale produces the same problem. Should I really be eating all of those carbs in the food pyramid if I want my waist to stay under 40"? Should 11 year old Billy with Type II diabetes eat like that?

What about the 15 year old athlete who plays BOTH basketball and football, has grown 2 inches in height since last year yet has been told that red meat is “bad” for him?

I eat the way I do for a specific purpose…even on my cheat days. Most people do not. They eat for comfort or to socialize. Until that changes, good luck with any mass program designed to tell people what to eat without them putting the work in.[/quote]

This would have to be explained though.
Imo, i think good information has always been given out. Look at the food pyramid. Look at the usual recommended doses of food. What’s ruining this (your?) country is the advertising and businesses.
Fruit loops sold as a “part of a wholesome breakfast”, whatever the fuck that means.
Anorexic models who tell people “i eat one lettuce leaf a day”.

The government can do this right and it doesn’t mean anyone will be relying on the government. Being given good information is something that is necessary. Being told the rules of the road (government), as opposed to being in a car in trying to figure things out (two 10 year olds in a car), would make driving much better.
I think it’s the same deal.

Starting somewhere is better than just saying “nothing will change until people unfuck themselves”. The problem being: most people, regardless of their size, don’t know they’re fucked to begin with because large sizes is normal.

You need someone to guide them. They don’t have to do all the work for them, but showing them the door would be a step in the right direction.

51

[quote]dday wrote:
It’s 2010 and there is NO excuses anymore for being morbidly obese, none. The information is out there if people want to look, people get online every day to check their facebook page and bullshit with friends but can’t find this or the other 2 million sites with people who know how to manipulate their body composition.

I know there is a ton of bad advice out there but if someone wants it bad enough they can find or figure out the right way, people don’t want to. There is a weight watchers or curves on every corner these days, hell theres a freaking sidewalk right out the front door, go for a walk.

People don’t want help, they want twinkies and when they can no longer wipe their own asses they want to bitch at hostess for making them fat.
It’s truly sad that all the great people in our history lived and died to make this country what it is and we’re going to piss it away because changing things is uncomfortable.[/quote]

Using this logic, people should rarely if ever have any problems whatsoever. Clearly this isn’t the case.

Knowledge is necessary but insufficient for behavior change.

52

The problem with saying that the schools or the government should serve healthier foods is that the majority of the parents don’t WANT that. They WANT the kids to be able to eat pizza, chicken nuggets and candy bars. They think making kids eat vegetables is “being mean” to them.

From what I’ve seen at my son’s school, the average parent has absolutely no concept of what healthy eating is and they aren’t willing to learn about it either.

I tried to have the snack shack closed and one of my arguments was that they are allowing five year olds to buy bags full of junk food with no parental input at all. Literally, if a five year old walks up to the window with $10 he can buy $10 of junk food and sit there and eat it. I was outraged and I expected other parents to be as well but they weren’t.

The response I got were: “You’re mean!” “Why can’t you just let the kids be kids?” “Junk food doesn’t hurt kids like it hurts adults.” “Let them eat as much of it as they can now because when they’re adults it will make them fat.”

I can’t make other people be good parents but I can damn well control what they give my kid. A few of the fat PTA moms hate my guts with a passion but my son is healthy. If his school decided to outlaw candy and serve healthier lunches, I’m pretty sure some of these parents would riot. It makes me sad for the kids but I don’t think there’s anything anyone can do about it.

53

[quote]MarvelGirl wrote:
The problem with saying that the schools or the government should serve healthier foods is that the majority of the parents don’t WANT that. They WANT the kids to be able to eat pizza, chicken nuggets and candy bars. They think making kids eat vegetables is “being mean” to them.

From what I’ve seen at my son’s school, the average parent has absolutely no concept of what healthy eating is and they aren’t willing to learn about it either.

I tried to have the snack shack closed and one of my arguments was that they are allowing five year olds to buy bags full of junk food with no parental input at all. Literally, if a five year old walks up to the window with $10 he can buy $10 of junk food and sit there and eat it. I was outraged and I expected other parents to be as well but they weren’t.

The response I got were: “You’re mean!” “Why can’t you just let the kids be kids?” “Junk food doesn’t hurt kids like it hurts adults.” “Let them eat as much of it as they can now because when they’re adults it will make them fat.”

I can’t make other people be good parents but I can damn well control what they give my kid. A few of the fat PTA moms hate my guts with a passion but my son is healthy. If his school decided to outlaw candy and serve healthier lunches, I’m pretty sure some of these parents would riot. It makes me sad for the kids but I don’t think there’s anything anyone can do about it.[/quote]

Well, I have believed for a while that we need to be handing out licenses to have kids. There are flat out too many parents who have no business trying to raise other human beings at all.

I agree with you about the 5 year olds. I also agree that most people truly do not WANT to change. They would rather the world simply accepted them no matter how disgusting, rude, fat, or dumb they are.

Because of people like that, why are we wasting the time to SAVE them?

People who truly want to change will find a way to do so. Those who don’t will continue to try to blame everyone/thing else but them.

People aren’t fat because they are confused. People are fat because they simply want to eat whatever they want when they want…and then they want you to accept them as well as care for them when they get sick.

Literally, one of the ladies in the office just read the following to the rest of the staff and they all agree; “the happiest women are those over a size 14”.

54

[quote]mrw173 wrote:

[quote]dday wrote:
It’s 2010 and there is NO excuses anymore for being morbidly obese, none. The information is out there if people want to look, people get online every day to check their facebook page and bullshit with friends but can’t find this or the other 2 million sites with people who know how to manipulate their body composition.

I know there is a ton of bad advice out there but if someone wants it bad enough they can find or figure out the right way, people don’t want to. There is a weight watchers or curves on every corner these days, hell theres a freaking sidewalk right out the front door, go for a walk.

People don’t want help, they want twinkies and when they can no longer wipe their own asses they want to bitch at hostess for making them fat.
It’s truly sad that all the great people in our history lived and died to make this country what it is and we’re going to piss it away because changing things is uncomfortable.[/quote]

Using this logic, people should rarely if ever have any problems whatsoever. Clearly this isn’t the case.

Knowledge is necessary but insufficient for behavior change.[/quote]

There are always going to be problems and struggles for people in life regardless of education or desire. My point was that in this case people don’t want to accept they have to change and use genes, ignorance and lack of time as an excuse to eat like shit then wonder why Geraldo is cutting them out of their beds. The kids are the ones who are suffering the most, not only are they going to lose their parents early but they’ve already set the ground work for their own children to die young.
Trust me I was one of those people and I decided to change, if I can figure it out anyone with the want to can.