Is that you in your avatar?
Yes, that’s me. And that bar weighs only 300 lbs.
[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
Yes, that’s me.[/quote]
I’m not insulting you. I was probably that size once. However, you keep asking questions…as if you still don’t get what people are saying. That along with your current development paints a very common picture in many gyms. For one, 20 years ago, no one would have ever even approached you for personal training. They would have walked right passed you and gone up to the guy who just finished a competition in bodybuilding or powerlifting or some guy who looked like he could.
You sound like you read a lot.
You sound like you have very minimal real world experience.
You sound like you have trouble relating to people outside of what you feel comfortable with.
These things together are like blood in the water to anyone who will take advantage of it.
You asked before if you should start a newb on machines.
Strange question.
I trained an obese guy once who had trouble getting ON an exercise bike.
You would recommend deadlifts?
You have a lot to learn…and people here have been there and done that.
The fact that you act as if that is insignificant just means life will be much harder for you.
Good luck.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Exactly. My guess is, every big guy in the place is laughing at him for it because he won’t listen to advice. This is probably no more than the escalation of it since he continues to not even listen here.[/quote]
[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
No, it didn’t escalate. That was how it began. …
These are the same guys who told a few years ago that …[/quote]
Wow. OP, you should stop and think about what X is trying to say here, you missed it completely. You had YEARS of this?!? And what’s the deal with blaming all this on when you were a kid?
I realized after college I had some issues too, so I kinda understand where you are coming from. Try reading “How to Win Friends and Influence People” by Dale Carnegie. It helped me. But the bottom line is, if you have someone coming up to you and saying you or someone you are with is a pussy, you’d better put a stop to that right now.
I didn’t have years of this. I began lifting weights in 2004. Lifted for a year, got back pain (had an excessive arch when DLing and squatting, and none of these very knowledgeable gentlemen managed/thought to point this out), shoulder pain (congenitally weak shoulders; even though I did and do a lot of pulling, more than I do pressing, even though I did and do external rotations, even though I have a very strong serratus anterior, BPs hurt like hell, and probably due to acromion shape MPs also tend to hurt - now; then, they also hurt like hell after a month or so)
Guys like this would comment on how I souldn’t do deadlifts or military presses. They didn’t say my technique is bad. They didn’t tell me how to make it better. They didn’t say this because my technique was bad. They just said to stop, because the deadlift and the military press are not exercises for beginners. No, no, regardless of technique. Wtf? And the bench press is? Why should’ve I stopped?
4 year layoff, due to back pain, and horrendous shoulder pain, and a few more more serious medical reasons.
Now…
Why should I listen to the advice of someone who doesn’t deadlift “because he doesn’t need to train his ass”, doesn’t squat heavy because “it’s dangerous” (and no, by heavy I don’t mean 1 RM or 3 RM, but just an arbitrary weight which they deem heavy), doesn’t ever do standing military presses, but does sitting BTN presses?
Why should I listen to someone who thinks queuing form and teaching good technique is for “pussies”?
Why should I listen to someone who thinks a “3 exercises, 4 sets each/muscle group” is the only way to train?
Why should I listen to someone who tells me deadlifts are NOT a mass gaining exercise? And no, they didn’t say “squat, instead”.
Why should I listen to someone who tells me elbows MUST be flared during bench presses? Or, otherwise, that I/the client should use a really close grip?
Why should I listen to someone who can’t DL a good deal more than me? My 330 DL sucks, but it should slowly go up (50-80 lb/year and I’m happy). His 400 DL doesn’t impress me, he/they have a lot more muscle on them. If I were that big I’d DL 500+.
And, I’m feeling pretty good with my 265 chin-up. (or pull-down; I can pull as much as I can chin) I think these guys can’t do 300, despite having pounds and pounds more muscle on their backs, and inches more on their arms and forearms. (I know it’s only good compared to the average lifter, not to a climber or an elite athlete/lifter)
Why should I believe they know more? Just because they’re bigger/older?
Oh, yeah, as soon as I see them again I’ll ask for their max DL and whether they can rep the stack on pulldowns (285 lb); which I highly doubt…
PS: one could answer the “why -s” with “a good coach is not necessarily a good lifter”, well, dayhum, my clients have good/great pressing technique (BP), learnt to keep back flat on SLDLs and cable rows… in a few months, I’ll post pictures. (I do have a client who gained ~15 lbs in 4 months, doing just what I have told him to do, but he lifted weights before, so at least some of this was muscle memory)
I’ll read that book, too.
You’re right, dude, you know better.
That is why you are having so much trouble.
People don’t fuck with people who look like they know what they are doing (unless alcohol is involved lol).
That goes for everything, not just the gym.
Yes, I need a few more months, a thousand or so poached eggs, many pounds of meat, and even more pounds of butter or lard. Then I’ll look like I know what I’m doing.
You did bother to read what I just said, didn’t you? If you did, I hope you’ll base your answers on that, not on the presumption that I’m lying.
[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
Yes, I need a few more months, a thousand or so poached eggs, many pounds of meat, and even more pounds of butter or lard. Then I’ll look like I know what I’m doing.
You did bother to read what I just said, didn’t you? If you did, I hope you’ll base your answers on that, not on the presumption that I’m lying.[/quote]
^^That is awesome!!! If I was “The Bird” that would totally be my avi!
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]pk0ad wrote:
[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
And another: I have beginners do inverted rows and cable rows, since DB rows require too much coordination for someone who can hardly keep his back flat during a DL, and I consider BB rows just place undue stress on the spine…
Since for an absolute beginner an inverted row with straight legs can be a bit difficult, I explain that they can bend their legs so that the exercise is easier to do, and then progressively straighten them when they get stronger…
[/quote]
Maybe you’re talking about a different exercise, but DB rows the way most people do them don’t require any more coordination than starting a mower. And people can start with the smallest dumbbells if need be, 5 or 10 lb or whatever. Who are you training who can’t row a 10 lb dumbbell?
[/quote]
Teaching a DB Row (on a bench) for some people is near impossible if they have zero body awareness. Quite a few people don’t know how to get their back to flatten to save their life.
[/quote]
I see what you’re saying, now that I think about it for every exercise there’s going to be some people who can’t do it for whatever reason. I don’t train people so I don’t really know, but I still don’t understand where OP is getting his clients from that DB rows are out as a rule for all beginners.
If you can’t teach a beginner dumbbell rows they are neurologically retarded and shouldn’t be training or you need find another line of work.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You’re right, dude, you know better.
That is why you are having so much trouble.
People don’t fuck with people who look like they know what they are doing (unless alcohol is involved lol).
That goes for everything, not just the gym.[/quote]
I’ve got to say… I read the first couple pages and then skipped to this and it seems like the tide has turned against the OP for whatever reason.
Honestly I don’t care either.
But I do have to say… these words by the Prof are very true.
I’m not a big guy but I put in the work and I do know what I’m doin, and I’ve got to say that in all the gyms I have worked out at - and there have been many - and all the places that I’ve boxed - and there have been many - nobody has ever fucked with me as badly as these dudes are “fucking” with you. Actually, nobody’s ever fucked with me at all, and generally nobody says two words to me unless I start talking first.
And I’m 5’7", so I’m certainly not intimidating anyone with my height or size.
So… maybe there are other things at work here.
Although OP, you don’t sound like a bad dude. If you’re really doing something wrong here I don’t think anyone on this forum could tell you without seeing it in action.
So my advice is just to go about your business and forget you made this thread.
And, for the record, I always thought the deadlift was really fucking easy to learn, but I’ve also been doing manual labor since before I started weightlifting and I knew how to lift shit without hurting my back… doesn’t really matter if it’s wooden platforms or pieces of cement or a bar with some plates on it.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Although OP, you don’t sound like a bad dude. If you’re really doing something wrong here I don’t think anyone on this forum could tell you without seeing it in action.
So my advice is just to go about your business and forget you made this thread.
And, for the record, I always thought the deadlift was really fucking easy to learn, but I’ve also been doing manual labor since before I started weightlifting and I knew how to lift shit without hurting my back… doesn’t really matter if it’s wooden platforms or pieces of cement or a bar with some plates on it.
[/quote]
I would imagine most of us who have made significant progress have some innate athletic ability even if it comes down to a better than average mind/muscle connection.
I have since learned that there are many people out there who lack any and all coordination and even this needs to be slowly learned over time.
You take someone like that and start them on a deadlift instead of simply having them making “working out” the first obstacle, conquered and you would be making a mistake.
Also…if they can’t learn a dumbbell row, why the fuck would you make them deadlift?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Although OP, you don’t sound like a bad dude. If you’re really doing something wrong here I don’t think anyone on this forum could tell you without seeing it in action.
So my advice is just to go about your business and forget you made this thread.
And, for the record, I always thought the deadlift was really fucking easy to learn, but I’ve also been doing manual labor since before I started weightlifting and I knew how to lift shit without hurting my back… doesn’t really matter if it’s wooden platforms or pieces of cement or a bar with some plates on it.
[/quote]
I would imagine most of us who have made significant progress have some innate athletic ability even if it comes down to a better than average mind/muscle connection.
I have since learned that there are many people out there who lack any and all coordination and even this needs to be slowly learned over time.
You take someone like that and start them on a deadlift instead of simply having them making “working out” the first obstacle, conquered and you would be making a mistake.
Also…if they can’t learn a dumbbell row, why the fuck would you make them deadlift?[/quote]
Oh I don’t disagree with you. I’ve always been very active (if not exactly what one might say “athletic”).
But like I said, that particular lift came easily to me because of my background in…well, backbreaking work.
The squat I have had much more trouble “mastering,” you might say. I always found that lift to be much more complicated.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
If you can’t teach a beginner dumbbell rows they are neurologically retarded and shouldn’t be training or you need find another line of work.[/quote]
Neurologically retarded. I like that.
Big dude at gym: “Hey, why is your deadlift so weak and pathetic”
Skinny dude at aforementioned gym: “It’s not my fault. It’s my motor units and the nerves that innervate them. They are retarded”
[quote]biglifter wrote:
[quote]tom63 wrote:
If you can’t teach a beginner dumbbell rows they are neurologically retarded and shouldn’t be training or you need find another line of work.[/quote]
Neurologically retarded. I like that.
Big dude at gym: “Hey, why is your deadlift so weak and pathetic”
Skinny dude at aforementioned gym: “It’s not my fault. It’s my motor units and the nerves that innervate them. They are retarded”
[/quote]
hahaha. That actually made laugh out loud.
[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
Yes, I need a few more months, a thousand or so poached eggs, many pounds of meat, and even more pounds of butter or lard. Then I’ll look like I know what I’m doing.
[/quote]
I’m pretty sure you said this quite a few months back…yet you are still deadlifting the same weight and pretty much the same size??
maybe…
just maybe…
you should…
stop thinking you know everything about training and dieting and learn from people who know what they’re talking about! But honestly if you think eggs, meat, and butter are all you need and forget some basics like…idk…oats, rice, potatoes, then please, please stop training people.
[quote]gregron wrote:
fact 23: big guys in the gym generally don’t know what they’re talking about because its just natural and they were always big.[/quote]