[quote]blueknight wrote:
… Once the teacher was shoved he should have ceased any further action and called police. …[/quote]
The police should not be necessary to handle this young punk’s actions. This is a major problem in our society that we think it is.
[quote]blueknight wrote:
Just like you I base my account on the newspaper article. The student shoved the teacher who then slapped the student. Once the teacher was shoved he should have ceased any further action and called police. The sergeant in the article states neither was justified in their actions and he would have first hand knowledge unlike us.[/quote]
He can’t cease action by the student. I missed the part of the article where they explained his mind control power.
[quote]There’s no number of times someone has to hit you for it to be acceptable to defend yourself, and you have no way of seeing into the future and knowing for a fact they aren’t going to hit you anymore.
Actually there is. If a person hits you once and walks away the threat has ceased. If you encounter that person in a physical altercation you are now susceptible to arrest as well. If a person hits you and cocks his hand back then obviously you know he will strike you again and the threat has not ended. You are now legally justified to defend yourself.[/quote]
The kid never walked away, the confrontation was still very much active. I don’t see your point here.
[quote]Legally the teacher was completely justified.
Obviously not true since he was arrested for striking the student.[/quote]
Are you serious? A police officer is NOT a judge and a jury. Him being arrested does not mean he wasn’t justified. If that is you are basing your opinion on then you need to learn a thing or two about the justice system.
[quote]As for school guidelines, those have little to do with the law and even with what’s right.
It’s irrelevant that guidelines have anything to do with the law. Guidelines are in place for almost every profession and they dictate the behavior and ethics of a person. That is how every facet of employment works.[/quote]
Most guidelines are there to limit liability and ultimately save money. If they say teachers aren’t ever allowed to hit students even if their life depends on it then when a teacher defends himself they don’t have to give him worker’s comp or pay his legal fees or anything of that nature because he was “breaking policy”.
They do not have a direct relation to ethics as in that example I gave you. Would you let a little girl get brain damage because your boss made a guideline intended to make his school look better? To hell with guidelines.
[quote]And like I said with restraining people, I’ve had to do it enough times that I know you will never be able to restrain a determined person by yourself without hurting someone, ever.
I’ve restrained numerous people on my own with neither myself or them being hurt. However I have extensive training in defensive techniques but the point is it can be done.
[/quote]
Sorry but you’re either lying or the person wasn’t determined. I’ve seen a 110 lb girl take 4 cops to restrain, a 130lb guy take 5 people and had to be chemically restrained and anything bigger than that is a tasin’. So save the you’re Chuck Norris BS for someone else, cause I’m not buying it. a 60 year old man is not going to completely restrain a 14 year old. Not gonna happen.
You’re what’s wrong with America. Nobody thinks they or their kids should be responsible for their actions. If you’re going to push someone then you’re going to get an ass beating. It’s nobody’s fault but you’re own.
And everyone says teachers should be held to a higher standard, but when did we stop holding kids to high standards? Why are our standards always so low for them that they’re expected to be like this and the teacher is out of line.
[quote]JonP wrote:
blueknight wrote:
Just like you I base my account on the newspaper article. The student shoved the teacher who then slapped the student. Once the teacher was shoved he should have ceased any further action and called police. The sergeant in the article states neither was justified in their actions and he would have first hand knowledge unlike us.
He can’t cease action by the student. I missed the part of the article where they explained his mind control power.
There’s no number of times someone has to hit you for it to be acceptable to defend yourself, and you have no way of seeing into the future and knowing for a fact they aren’t going to hit you anymore.
Actually there is. If a person hits you once and walks away the threat has ceased. If you encounter that person in a physical altercation you are now susceptible to arrest as well. If a person hits you and cocks his hand back then obviously you know he will strike you again and the threat has not ended. You are now legally justified to defend yourself.
The kid never walked away, the confrontation was still very much active. I don’t see your point here.
I’m speaking about the legality of self defense, not the situation at hand.
Legally the teacher was completely justified.
Obviously not true since he was arrested for striking the student.
Are you serious? A police officer is NOT a judge and a jury. Him being arrested does not mean he wasn’t justified. If that is you are basing your opinion on then you need to learn a thing or two about the justice system.
A police officer makes an arrest based on the knowledge of the law and probable cause. It is just your opinion that legally the teacher was completely justified or are you the judge and jury as well? The arrest by the police shows that the teacher violated the law as per criminal statute. But you’re right a judge/jury will make the final determination.
As for school guidelines, those have little to do with the law and even with what’s right.
It’s irrelevant that guidelines have anything to do with the law. Guidelines are in place for almost every profession and they dictate the behavior and ethics of a person. That is how every facet of employment works.
Most guidelines are there to limit liability and ultimately save money. If they say teachers aren’t ever allowed to hit students even if their life depends on it then when a teacher defends himself they don’t have to give him worker’s comp or pay his legal fees or anything of that nature because he was “breaking policy”.
They do not have a direct relation to ethics as in that example I gave you. Would you let a little girl get brain damage because your boss made a guideline intended to make his school look better? To hell with guidelines.
Your example and the situation that occurred is like comparing apples to oranges. A teacher is expected to exercise good judgement, behavior and ethics. The teacher in this case failed to do so. Obviously in your example some people cannot use good judgement as well. But guidelines promote structure for employees. Or do you advocate that people can do as they please without regard to any consequences?
And like I said with restraining people, I’ve had to do it enough times that I know you will never be able to restrain a determined person by yourself without hurting someone, ever.
I’ve restrained numerous people on my own with neither myself or them being hurt. However I have extensive training in defensive techniques but the point is it can be done.
Sorry but you’re either lying or the person wasn’t determined. I’ve seen a 110 lb girl take 4 cops to restrain, a 130lb guy take 5 people and had to be chemically restrained and anything bigger than that is a tasin’. So save the you’re Chuck Norris BS for someone else, cause I’m not buying it. a 60 year old man is not going to completely restrain a 14 year old. Not gonna happen.
No I’m not Chuck Norris. Read my post again where I’ve stated that I’ve restrained numerous people…not all. My point is my determination is just as great or greater than the person I’m restraining. Most of the time I win…sometimes I lose. As far as 60 year old men not being able to restrain a 14 year old? Speaking in general I’m sure there are quite a few strength athletes, body builders and martial artists in their 60’s who would disagree with you.
You’re what’s wrong with America. Nobody thinks they or their kids should be responsible for their actions. If you’re going to push someone then you’re going to get an ass beating. It’s nobody’s fault but you’re own.
No, I’m what’s right with America. Everyday I put my life on the line for people such as yourself, that teacher and the student. I still have the honor and integrity instilled in me by my parents when I was growing up. Nowhere do I say that kids shouldn’t be responsible for their actions. In this I agree. It goes back to earlier posts where I say that parents constantly need to reaffirm values, morals, ethics, respect and compassion for others in their children’s development.
And everyone says teachers should be held to a higher standard, but when did we stop holding kids to high standards? Why are our standards always so low for them that they’re expected to be like this and the teacher is out of line.
I agree totally. But how can you hold a child to high standards when you can’t lead by example as in the case of this teacher. Yes you can say that “punk” deserved that ass beating but what did that really teach that child? My intention is not to get in a debate with you. You are entitled to your opinion so we can agree to disagree.
[/quote]