T-Nation Atheists

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]beaul wrote:
This is a great topic. I never considered myself Atheist, Agnostic or whatever. All I know is that there is no special GOD type being. After reading the descriptions of an Atheist I guess I fall in that category.

We are born

We live

We Die

Thats it. Nothing special. Is it fucked up? yeah it sucks. If you disagree with this then go ahead and keep getting mind fucked at your local place of worship.

It makes me sick to think of the money and lives wasted on religion. Religion and belief is for the weak minded.

Do the religious types not fathom how big the universe is? I can understand because its almost impossible to imagine. There are other planets out there with the same proccess going on right now. Evolution…

Your telling me a higher being had control in all these other millions of galaxies. Thats a busy guy. I mean i thought my schedule was tight. Look at the details all around you in nature. Look at the complexity of the human body. no one can just make this shit up. Its taken earth billions of years to make it to this point. Ask bill gates, thats a lot of years. We have about another 5 billion to evolve and get off this planet before the sun goes out, if we want to continue living.

One thing i think sucks is never knowing what else could be out there. All the cool shit going on in the million other galaxies. Maybe there is another earthlike planet, just as beautiful and full of all kinds of life. I will be long dead and my life will have amounted to absolutely nothing in 5 billion years. 1/1 billianth of a second in the grand scheme of things.

ok i rambled off topic long enough.

later,
beau[/quote]

But that is the beauty. A poster on the other thread decided that his moment of conciousness on this planet was subservient to bringing more into heaven (sounds dangerously like a bomber to me).

We do live then die, but that is the elligence of it all, and if more people accepted this, then maybe more will get done.

162

[quote]haney wrote:
and in logic taking the negative is defying logic?
[/quote]

what do you mean by ‘defying logic’? do you mean not using the rules of logic?

what do you mean by ‘taking the negative’?

I don’t see it in the list of formal logic rules…do you?

propositional calculus: Propositional calculus - Wikipedia

or perhaps you were refering to some informal fallacy:

what are you talking about?

163

[quote]Hamster wrote:
But what if you found 100,000 people claiming such a story? Could you discredit all of them as being liars, or not really being able to validate what they saw in the afterlife? I think there’s power in the sheer numbers.
[/quote]

four million french men claim that fiat is the greatest car manufacturer in the world …does this make it true?

164

[quote]grey wrote:
What about Moses? The ten commandments?
Abraham? The old testament.
All bullshit?

I guess all religious Jews are morons for believing in their God as well.
Judaism, Christianity as well as all the other religions on this planet are practised by illiterate morons…people stuck in the middle ages. Now that you have made that clear I can rest easy knowing that whatever I do from here on in will have absolutely no consequences on how I spend eternity.
Lo and behold we have here at T-Nation a bunch of philosophers who have found the answer to life and death.
Gee whiz. Here we as humans have debated the existence of God for centuries and the answer was here in this thread all along.
Do none of you believe in human spirit?
Do none of you believe that there are things that our tiny little minds cannot begin to fathom? A little bit of humility will go a long way sometimes.
You guys think your the cats meow and have all the answers don’t you.
God is not a dude in the sky with a beard. I’m not sure what/who god is but it’s got something to do with being in a state of harmony with your universe and everything around you. Being close to god doesn’t mean you have conversations with him or are drinking buddies.

I actually do believe that this useless life we live on this tiny little planet in this small galaxy cannot be all there is. At least that’s what I want to believe.

What really gets to me is that I’d bet dollars to donuts that every one of you will eventually say a prayer of forgiveness on your deathbed when mortality bites you in the ass and you feel the devil breathing down your neck.

Ive seen it so many times it’s not even funny. The old “what if there is a guy with a beard and I have been wrong all along” shit.

Just in case…

[/quote]

Nope, no chance.

I have been in an accident where i thought i broke my back, i could not move at all for 10 minutes, completely paralyzed.

I wanted a bloody helicopter, not some miracle.

165

[quote]ZEB wrote:
beaul wrote:
I have never had a logic class. Why would I need a logic class to know that “someone” didn’t wave a magic wand and create this beautiful place we have here called Earth. And not to mention “He/She/It” did the deed in 7 days.

Please explain how believing in a higher being is logical.

I suppose you believe in the magic shows you see on TV?

Watch while I pull a universe out of my ass and you shall all hail me the mighty “god”.

2 Peter 11, 12:

Those people speak evil about things they don’t understand. They are like wild animals. They do what comes naturally to them. They are born only to be caught and destroyed. Just like animals, they too will die.

Angels are stronger and more powerful than those people. But even angels don’t bring to the Lord evil charges against heavenly beings.
[/quote]

I expect better…

166

[quote]miniross wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
The Mage wrote:
…

Vocal atheists embarrass me quite a bit, and I am convinced they are not true atheists, but people who are pissed off with God. (They prayed for a pony and didn’t get one.)
…

Well said.

Would the antethesis be vocal religious zealouts are in fact closet atheists.

bollocks.

Those that are voiciferous may just be fed up of feeling that there is a mad majority that make it necessary to “respect” somones beliefs.

I do not respect someones beliefs if they seem nonsenscicle. Sure, go for your life, but let me have the freedom to say as such without some black cloud of shame descending [/quote]

We gave you that black cloud for a reason. Take it with pride! :slight_smile:

167

[quote]karva wrote:
orion wrote:
Even if all you “theists” are right and that logically you cannot deny that there might be a god, that is still very very far away from “10 commandments/messiah/trinity” Jehova.

The problem cannot be reduced to there is no god OR everything the bible claims is true.

Imagine there is an entity we would, for a lack of a better term, call a god and he just was some sort of prime mover and otherwise does not give a shit.

No heaven, no hell, no weird interest in homosexuality…

Then we heathen atheists would technically be wrong but for all practical purposes be right…

The history of mankind knows different kinds of gods, like the vain bearded guy, about whom the majority seem to be talking about, then there is deus otiosus, the god who gave the original nudge and haven’t interfered since, there’s numinosum, the one who can’t be spoken of since numinosum can be described only with negatives, there’s the panteistic god who recides in every single atom in the universe, there’s the trickster, who really don’t care about anything else but having a good time, there’s pantheism, a splendid show of teamwork like in the greek pantheon…

And then there’s Crom who laughes at you from his mountain.
In a more serious vain, William James’ book “Varieties of Religious Experience” from 1902 is still as fresh as ever. Belief is not about dogma, it’s about experience. Atheism is belief,too.[/quote]

How is atheism a beilief. It has no framework, structure or the like. It is a matter of saying that there is no effective proof.

It is a common mistake to think of it as such.

I do like the multi god bit though…very interesting.

168

Fix It Again Trevor (FIAT)

169

[quote]haney wrote:
Only a true friend would make sure I made it to Hell!
[/quote]

Stick with me pal, I’ll show you the path :wink:

170

[quote]vroom wrote:
I’m wondering, from what I’m seeing, if non-theists should be attempting to convert people away from religion in the Christians thread.

Hmmm?
[/quote]
The differnece between them and us is that we don’t care what f’d up things they believe as long as they aren’t provoked to actions that interfere with our evening.

171

[quote]DPH wrote:
Hamster wrote:
But what if you found 100,000 people claiming such a story? Could you discredit all of them as being liars, or not really being able to validate what they saw in the afterlife? I think there’s power in the sheer numbers.

four million french men claim that fiat is the greatest car manufacturer in the world …does this make it true?[/quote]

Fiat is italian.

172

[quote]Lorisco wrote:

Bro, on what do you base your belief that no God or higher power exists?

[/quote]

I use common sense and my own free will. Along with the brain that the millions of years of evolution created.

What do religious people base their beliefs on? A book? or hope and faith that something has to exist otherwise how else do I except that when i die it will just be THE END.

Eventually religion will be phased out. It will happen though. As more people come to realize no one is watching down on them or gives a rats ass.

Religion is both good and bad. It keeps some people on track that would other wise use their human instincts to do bad things.

But some take it over the top. I feel so sorry for these people. Like the people that feel they have to quote stuff out of a book that was made up. Don’t try to push your erroneous beliefs off on me. This wasn’t directed at you Lorisco i just got off on a tangent :slight_smile:

WWJD,
beau

173

I have had a butchers at the christian thread. No discussion at all, just backslapping. At least we have some discussion.

Probably an example of work in action…agreement and faith versus discussion and argument.

174

[quote]vroom wrote:
I’m wondering, from what I’m seeing, if non-theists should be attempting to convert people away from religion in the Christians thread.

Hmmm?[/quote]

I am here to convert no one! You make your own choice, and suffer whatever consequences there may be.

I.E.

  1. If there is no God than I could possibly have missed out on something.
  2. If there is a God you could all be going to hell
  3. I could be wrong about my choice of God and could still go to hell.

I am ok with my decision since I am always refining my faith.

175

[quote]karva wrote:
Fiat is italian.[/quote]

which makes it even more rediculous that four million frenchmen believe it’s the greatest auto manufacturer in the world…lol

176

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
ConanSpeaks wrote:
I think most people choose not to believe in God for the same reason most people are fat and out of shape, because they are too lazy to really look into the matter and too undisciplined to actually apply the principles they learn consistently enough to produce positive results in their lives.

You could say the same thing about people who choose faith over critical thinking. I find people who accept the lies of dogma to be lazy non-thinkers.

This is not to say I think science is the only way. Science is taken blindly as fact by many people simply because it is hard. I can be told that the measurement of ‘G’ is such and such a number but in order to prove it to within a certain order of magnitude requires diligence, precision, and uncanny discipline in the lab. Many people aren’t initiated enough to explore their universe on their own nor would they have the slightest thought as to how to begin this process.[/quote]

I would agree. Dogma is the crutch of the ignorant and uninitiated. Whether you believe in creation, evolution, or nothing at all, the fact remains that we (humans) have by some means been bestowed with the ability to contemplate our own existence. That alone should spur our desire to learn more about the purpose and reason behind our existence, regardless of whether that pursuit of knowledge leads to scientific or spiritual ends.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (New American Standard Bible)

For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.

177

[quote]DPH wrote:
haney wrote:
and in logic taking the negative is defying logic?

what do you mean by ‘defying logic’? do you mean not using the rules of logic?

what do you mean by ‘taking the negative’?

I don’t see it in the list of formal logic rules…do you?

propositional calculus: Propositional calculus - Wikipedia

or perhaps you were refering to some informal fallacy:

what are you talking about?[/quote]

it would be a debate form an an informal fallacy

178

[quote]haney wrote:
orion wrote:
Even if all you “theists” are right and that logically you cannot deny that there might be a god, that is still very very far away from “10 commandments/messiah/trinity” Jehova.

True but it does take away the “I use logic to not believe” argument.

[/quote]

Haney,

Do you want someone to lay out a logical argument for not believing in God? I’ve already mentioned that an omniscient being who knows how he will judge someone before even creating them seems pretty non-sensical.

Also, since there is no actual evidence for his existence, why is it not logical to assert he doesn’t exist?

179

[quote]haney wrote:
(“Surrounding areas” is your added words).[/quote]

What added words? Look it up, it says: “…and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof…”

I take it that those “coasts thereof” are the surrounding areas. How can you be so sure of the historical accuracy of the Bible when you haven’t even read it?

It’s always the same thing from you guys. You ask for an example of X. We give you an example of X. You then claim that example to be invalid because of some reason or another. Anything to preserve your precious Bible and it’s supposedly perfect historical record.

Josephus recorded a lot of trivial details about Herod and his life. How he could miss the massacre of infants, a rather unusual event, is at least worth questioning. Soldiers going around killing kids is difficult to miss. Even if you miss the secret meeting Herod might have held, you’ll probably hear from it on the streets.

But hey, in fantasy land, I guess anything goes.

How many babies have to die before it concerns you?

Yeah, let’s kill all those babies in secret. No one will notice. Shhhhh!

180

[quote]miniross wrote:
But that is the beauty. A poster on the other thread decided that his moment of conciousness on this planet was subservient to bringing more into heaven (sounds dangerously like a bomber to me).
[/quote]

The difference is that the poster in the christian thread wants more people to go to heaven. A bomber wants to send more infidels to hell so that the bomber earns their place in heaven with the virgins and all that shit.

Can you explain what you mean by ‘get more done’. More of what?