T-Bar Rows to Add Volume to Back Routine

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]Antares wrote:

[quote]DoveofWar08 wrote:

I for one though don’t really see a huge problem with doing pullups and pulldowns in the same session. [/quote]

I agree with this. Pulldowns, and Pullups are as identical as Mech-Bench, and Barbell Bench.
Which of course is not the case…

Uhhh…What shitty oversimplification the above is ( as if there were no variations on those four movements ), but I hope the point is not lost.
[/quote]

The real point is that there needs to be some LOGIC behind how someone puts a routine together. I do the exercises that I do for specific purposes, not to simply do some more for no reason. Lat pull downs can be substituted for pull ups. I know this because I haven’t done pull ups in years but have stretch marks on my lats from the pull downs and rows.

That doesn’t mean don’t do both, but at least let there be a REASON to do so.

Pros like Victor Martinez keep pull ups in the routine. Others don’t. Your goal is to find what works for you.

62

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Your goal is to find what works for you.[/quote]

As usual, it boils down to this.

Problem is, most people are too afraid to get out of their rut.

63

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Antares wrote:

[quote]DoveofWar08 wrote:

I for one though don’t really see a huge problem with doing pullups and pulldowns in the same session. [/quote]

I agree with this. Pulldowns, and Pullups are as identical as Mech-Bench, and Barbell Bench.
Which of course is not the case…

Uhhh…What shitty oversimplification the above is ( as if there were no variations on those four movements ), but I hope the point is not lost.
[/quote]

The real point is that there needs to be some LOGIC behind how someone puts a routine together. I do the exercises that I do for specific purposes, not to simply do some more for no reason. Lat pull downs can be substituted for pull ups. I know this because I haven’t done pull ups in years but have stretch marks on my lats from the pull downs and rows.

That doesn’t mean don’t do both, but at least let there be a REASON to do so.

Pros like Victor Martinez keep pull ups in the routine. Others don’t. Your goal is to find what works for you.[/quote]

We are in total agreement here.

OP looks like he’s adding shit for the hell of it.

But that’s not the case, he is trying to fix his shit, but going about it the ‘wrong’ way.

Maybe ‘wrong’ is not the correct wording, but at least he’s not fixing his problem the way I would, if I were him.

And he does not know why he’s doing what he is doing now, in a more nuanced way than he wants to train his ‘back’ and those are all ‘back’ movements.

Nobody gets results from doing random-shit-half-assed-like.

Good luck to this boy.

64

Do you guys do your shrugs explosively (like in Doveofwar08’s video) or do you hold the contraction at the top for a few seconds?

65

[quote]jo3 wrote:
Do you guys do your shrugs explosively (like in Doveofwar08’s video) or do you hold the contraction at the top for a few seconds?[/quote]

I did them fast up until about a little over a year ago. I think most people SHOULD do them that way until they actually get to a point where they are stronger than most in the gym. The HS shrug machine I use now only holds 5 plates a side. I hit that as a max for that exercise several years ago.

I hold the contraction now briefly because this increases the work that needs to be done which leads to more muscle growth. I doubt most here are at that level yet.

If you can’t even do 3 plates a side without straps, save the holding of contractions for when that weight is actually easy for you.

66

An addition to that last post because I feel some will take that the wrong way…I did static holds in the beginning for shrugs to get my strength up. We would train traps normally, and then we would time each other with more weight on the bar than we could actually do full reps with and see how long we could hold that weight in a contracted position.

I credit this for why my strength went up so quickly…so in that effect, holding peak contraction can help even as a beginner here.

67

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jo3 wrote:
Do you guys do your shrugs explosively (like in Doveofwar08’s video) or do you hold the contraction at the top for a few seconds?[/quote]

I did them fast up until about a little over a year ago. I think most people SHOULD do them that way until they actually get to a point where they are stronger than most in the gym. The HS shrug machine I use now only holds 5 plates a side.

I hit that as a max for that exercise several years ago. I hold the contraction now briefly because this increases the work that needs to be done which leads to more muscle growth. I doubt most here are at that level yet.

If you can’t even do 3 plates a side without straps, save the holding of contractions for when that weight is actually easy for you.[/quote]

I don’t see the point about straps. If your grip is limiting you, use straps. Your doing it for your Traps. If your grip needs work do extra grip work.

68

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jo3 wrote:
Do you guys do your shrugs explosively (like in Doveofwar08’s video) or do you hold the contraction at the top for a few seconds?[/quote]

I did them fast up until about a little over a year ago. I think most people SHOULD do them that way until they actually get to a point where they are stronger than most in the gym. The HS shrug machine I use now only holds 5 plates a side. I hit that as a max for that exercise several years ago.

I hold the contraction now briefly because this increases the work that needs to be done which leads to more muscle growth. I doubt most here are at that level yet.

If you can’t even do 3 plates a side without straps, save the holding of contractions for when that weight is actually easy for you.[/quote]

Thank you sir.

69

[quote]Professor X wrote:
An addition to that last post because I feel some will take that the wrong way…I did static holds in the beginning for shrugs to get my strength up. We would train traps normally, and then we would time each other with more weight on the bar than we could actually do full reps with and see how long we could hold that weight in a contracted position.

I credit this for why my strength went up so quickly…so in that effect, holding peak contraction can help even as a beginner here.[/quote]

Interesting. I have never given static holds/peak contraction holds much thought. Did you do this for other movements as well or was it only shrugs? If so, what kind of strength increases did you get?

70

[quote]Antares wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Antares wrote:

[quote]DoveofWar08 wrote:

I for one though don’t really see a huge problem with doing pullups and pulldowns in the same session. [/quote]

I agree with this. Pulldowns, and Pullups are as identical as Mech-Bench, and Barbell Bench.
Which of course is not the case…

Uhhh…What shitty oversimplification the above is ( as if there were no variations on those four movements ), but I hope the point is not lost.
[/quote]

The real point is that there needs to be some LOGIC behind how someone puts a routine together. I do the exercises that I do for specific purposes, not to simply do some more for no reason. Lat pull downs can be substituted for pull ups. I know this because I haven’t done pull ups in years but have stretch marks on my lats from the pull downs and rows.

That doesn’t mean don’t do both, but at least let there be a REASON to do so.

Pros like Victor Martinez keep pull ups in the routine. Others don’t. Your goal is to find what works for you.[/quote]

We are in total agreement here.

OP looks like he’s adding shit for the hell of it.

But that’s not the case, he is trying to fix his shit, but going about it the ‘wrong’ way.

Maybe ‘wrong’ is not the correct wording, but at least he’s not fixing his problem the way I would, if I were him.

And he does not know why he’s doing what he is doing now, in a more nuanced way than he wants to train his ‘back’ and those are all ‘back’ movements.

Nobody gets results from doing random-shit-half-assed-like.

Good luck to this boy.
[/quote]

I agree here also that his lifting should be based on how he progresses and that logic should dictate how his program is designed. His results should also be the key factor in what movements he chooses to do. However, the dude has 1 post and no info up in his profile at all, so we are really just guessing at what he is/is not doing.

I also agree on the pull-ups. Once I got past 250 it became damn near impossible to progress in total reps performed, and they never seemed to make dip/chin belts that were big enough for my waist.

71

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]jo3 wrote:
Do you guys do your shrugs explosively (like in Doveofwar08’s video) or do you hold the contraction at the top for a few seconds?[/quote]

I did them fast up until about a little over a year ago. I think most people SHOULD do them that way until they actually get to a point where they are stronger than most in the gym. The HS shrug machine I use now only holds 5 plates a side.

I hit that as a max for that exercise several years ago. I hold the contraction now briefly because this increases the work that needs to be done which leads to more muscle growth. I doubt most here are at that level yet.

If you can’t even do 3 plates a side without straps, save the holding of contractions for when that weight is actually easy for you.[/quote]

I don’t see the point about straps. If your grip is limiting you, use straps. Your doing it for your Traps. If your grip needs work do extra grip work.[/quote]

The point about straps was meant to portray a level of strength. I could go pick up 3 plates a side with no straps because that weight isn’t a challenge at all. Obviously if a weight is easy for you, you shouldn’t need wrist straps to do it.

72

[quote]DoveofWar08 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
An addition to that last post because I feel some will take that the wrong way…I did static holds in the beginning for shrugs to get my strength up. We would train traps normally, and then we would time each other with more weight on the bar than we could actually do full reps with and see how long we could hold that weight in a contracted position.

I credit this for why my strength went up so quickly…so in that effect, holding peak contraction can help even as a beginner here.[/quote]

Interesting. I have never given static holds/peak contraction holds much thought. Did you do this for other movements as well or was it only shrugs? If so, what kind of strength increases did you get? [/quote]

We did it for biceps at times but nothing long term. Shrugs is the only movement we did this regularly for. I am not sure what you mean by strength increases. My strength went up because of EVERYTHING I was doing, not just because of some static holds at the end of a training session.

73

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]DoveofWar08 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
An addition to that last post because I feel some will take that the wrong way…I did static holds in the beginning for shrugs to get my strength up. We would train traps normally, and then we would time each other with more weight on the bar than we could actually do full reps with and see how long we could hold that weight in a contracted position.

I credit this for why my strength went up so quickly…so in that effect, holding peak contraction can help even as a beginner here.[/quote]

Interesting. I have never given static holds/peak contraction holds much thought. Did you do this for other movements as well or was it only shrugs? If so, what kind of strength increases did you get? [/quote]

We did it for biceps at times but nothing long term. Shrugs is the only movement we did this regularly for. I am not sure what you mean by strength increases. My strength went up because of EVERYTHING I was doing, not just because of some static holds at the end of a training session.[/quote]

You said

I was not sure if you attributed your strength increases primarily to the static holds or the total work that you did. Since I have never really done them, I was not sure if they helped your other lifts or not either. But now I know.

74

[quote]tiktokz1 wrote:
I want to add more volume to my back routine and am wondering if t bar rows could be a viable addition.

My routine so far is

pullups- 3 sets to failure
dumbell rows - 3 sets of 8-10
lat pulldowns- 3 sets of 8-10
cable rows- 4 sets of 10
rack pulls- 3 sets of 5
behind the neck shrugs- 4 sets of 10 [/quote]

sigh…I would treat machines as supplements…

75

I don’t see the point in trying to train your grip separately for the sake of a lift that does exactly that anyway. Your grip strength increases really quickly.

So for something like rack pulls, you can train your grip up to a certain point, after which, I don’t think anyone would feel “guilty” about using straps since you’re already ahead of you full deadlifting grip strength.

Of course though, not saying one shouldn’t train grip/forearms altogether, because it does have a carry over effect to other exercises. Just saying that to train your static grip strength, you need to hold heavy ass weights, which is exactly what you do with those lifts anyway…

76

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
I don’t see the point in trying to train your grip separately for the sake of a lift that does exactly that anyway. Your grip strength increases really quickly. [/quote]

Agree.

On something like shrugs i dont use straps untill my grip has become the limiting factor. Then i use the straps so that my traps are cooked. Best of both worlds?

Unless you are pretty advanced, a competing bodybuilder or have particularly small foearms I dont see the need to train them directly YET!

77

[quote]Shontayne wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
I don’t see the point in trying to train your grip separately for the sake of a lift that does exactly that anyway. Your grip strength increases really quickly. [/quote]

Agree.

On something like shrugs i dont use straps untill my grip has become the limiting factor. Then i use the straps so that my traps are cooked. Best of both worlds?

Unless you are pretty advanced, a competing bodybuilder or have particularly small foearms I dont see the need to train them directly YET![/quote]

I do the same, but some of us just have a weak grip… without chalk I can only hold onto 4 plates for about 5 reps, and I’d need to use a mixed grip for that, however I can shrug a lot more, the problem is when I get up to about 5 and a half plates the grip is the limiting factor even WITH STRAPS, so in my case, it’s getting to the point where I need to start doing direct grip work, even though I am no where near strong/advanced/dont have big traps/forearms/etc

78

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:

[quote]Shontayne wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
I don’t see the point in trying to train your grip separately for the sake of a lift that does exactly that anyway. Your grip strength increases really quickly. [/quote]

Agree.

On something like shrugs i dont use straps untill my grip has become the limiting factor. Then i use the straps so that my traps are cooked. Best of both worlds?

Unless you are pretty advanced, a competing bodybuilder or have particularly small foearms I dont see the need to train them directly YET![/quote]

I do the same, but some of us just have a weak grip… without chalk I can only hold onto 4 plates for about 5 reps, and I’d need to use a mixed grip for that, however I can shrug a lot more, the problem is when I get up to about 5 and a half plates the grip is the limiting factor even WITH STRAPS, so in my case, it’s getting to the point where I need to start doing direct grip work, even though I am no where near strong/advanced/dont have big traps/forearms/etc[/quote]

Thats interesting! I would guess that as you become more advanced at this your grip will catch up pretty quick? If this has not been the case i would still personally just throw in a few static holds into my routine in preferece to forearm curls or a designated forearm workout etc.

Im not saying dont train muscles directly, dont get me wrong. Just from personal exprience my grip strength has always caught up to increased demands.

79

[quote]Shontayne wrote:

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:

[quote]Shontayne wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
I don’t see the point in trying to train your grip separately for the sake of a lift that does exactly that anyway. Your grip strength increases really quickly. [/quote]

Agree.

On something like shrugs i dont use straps untill my grip has become the limiting factor. Then i use the straps so that my traps are cooked. Best of both worlds?

Unless you are pretty advanced, a competing bodybuilder or have particularly small foearms I dont see the need to train them directly YET![/quote]

I do the same, but some of us just have a weak grip… without chalk I can only hold onto 4 plates for about 5 reps, and I’d need to use a mixed grip for that, however I can shrug a lot more, the problem is when I get up to about 5 and a half plates the grip is the limiting factor even WITH STRAPS, so in my case, it’s getting to the point where I need to start doing direct grip work, even though I am no where near strong/advanced/dont have big traps/forearms/etc[/quote]

Thats interesting! I would guess that as you become more advanced at this your grip will catch up pretty quick? If this has not been the case i would still personally just throw in a few static holds into my routine in preferece to forearm curls or a designated forearm workout etc.

Im not saying dont train muscles directly, dont get me wrong. Just from personal exprience my grip strength has always caught up to increased demands.[/quote]

I can’t speak for Bababaganoosh, but I’m pretty sure for most people traps eventually win the battle over grip. I doubt there’s many people who can overhand grip 5 1/2 plates on a bar with out straps. I think it’s damn impressive PX could grip 4 plates. Keep in mind he is now using a Hammer Strength and 5 plates on that is going to be way easier than 4 plates on a bar.

80

[video]1657[/video]

In my experiance, straps are used to save my hands from getting torn to hell. Whenever my grip fails, its because a large chunk of one of my callouses has ripped off. TO be sure, your grip still gets some stimulation from the use of straps. The bar would fall from your hands if you straped up but did not squeeze the shit out of it at the same time. Like others have said, I really only think grip strength should be worried about if you have small forearms or if you fail at max attempt deadlifts because of your grip. Even if one of those two situations is the case, I still think straps have a place in training.