[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
but then I never do any direct trap work, deadlifts work for me)[/quote]
I hear this a lot but I haven’t seen the massive traps on this site that make the statement justified.
I do shrugs. I think I look like it.
Any pics of your traps?
I am just being skeptical because most here seem to make the deadlift out to be the end all of all exercises yet their development isn’t exactly knocking me out of my seat.
This is not an attack on you either.[/quote]
I think you’re being a little obnoxious. To be blunt; it’s not all about you and there are other people out there that are big too and worthy of comparison. I don’t have any gripe with your size which I’m sure is superior, just the attitude.
I imagine a person could get to your size (weight relative to frame) without doing shrugs and I imagine that their traps would look somewhat big, then, given similar frame and leanness. And that’s when it might be more fair to compare people that are over 50 pounds apart at the same height. Point being that someone who is a lot smaller than you is bound to have less impressive traps regardless of what you and them are doing.
My back/traps are decent so I’ll chime in. Im currently training for strongman so my back owrkout is twice a week and looks like this
Fat grip DL one day rps one day for weight
Nuetral gripe power clean and press or farmers walk one of each per back day
DB rows 5x10
any other other exercise power rows, lat pulldown, or chest supported row is the norm
[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
but then I never do any direct trap work, deadlifts work for me)[/quote]
I hear this a lot but I haven’t seen the massive traps on this site that make the statement justified.
I do shrugs. I think I look like it.
Any pics of your traps?
I am just being skeptical because most here seem to make the deadlift out to be the end all of all exercises yet their development isn’t exactly knocking me out of my seat.
This is not an attack on you either.[/quote]
I think you’re being a little obnoxious. [/quote]
Am I? Ah, yes, how dare he want the discussion in bodybuilding to actually be worth something which usually implies the people giving advice actually have the experience to help other reach a goal faster.
In your world…the one where every clueless newb who weighs 120lbs has the exact same chance of being taken seriously as guys who actually LOOK like serious weight lifters…no one ever makes much progress.
[quote]
To be blunt; it’s not all about you and there are other people out there that are big too and worthy of comparison. I don’t have any gripe with your size which I’m sure is superior, just the attitude.[/quote]
Who cares if you don’t like my attitude? Don’t read my posts.
[quote]
I imagine a person could get to your size (weight relative to frame) without doing shrugs and I imagine that their traps would look somewhat big, then, given similar frame and leanness. And that’s when it might be more fair to compare people that are over 50 pounds apart at the same height. Point being that someone who is a lot smaller than you is bound to have less impressive traps regardless of what you and them are doing.[/quote]
I do believe most of us know a well developed physique when we see one whether they weigh 180lbs or 250. Why do you think otherwise?
Why don’t you do any deadlift on your back day or rack pull? and like profX said I don’t see why you would do lat pulldown after doing pull ups, I would rather do more sets of pull ups if you want to add more volume. Personally I’ve always had big traps and never trained them directly regulary, heavy row and dead do the tricks for me but LOL @ behind the back shrug!!!
Deadlifts alone are not enough unless the weight you are using is enough to put you into the running at a powerlifting competition…and even then direct training is going to produce more results.[/quote]
Even then, I’ve pulled 645, but don’t attribute my traps to DLs, but to heavy-ass shrugs. Until I bought some straps and really focused on shrugs (bringing them from 405x20 to 565x16 so far), I didn’t have very good trap development.
So I think it’s safe to say that even really heavy deadlifts won’t give you very good traps…
Deadlifts alone are not enough unless the weight you are using is enough to put you into the running at a powerlifting competition…and even then direct training is going to produce more results.[/quote]
Even then, I’ve pulled 645, but don’t attribute my traps to DLs, but to heavy-ass shrugs. Until I bought some straps and really focused on shrugs (bringing them from 405x20 to 565x16 so far), I didn’t have very good trap development.
So I think it’s safe to say that even really heavy deadlifts won’t give you very good traps…[/quote]
Shit I’ll go as far as to say one lift won’t progress without the other moving also, at least in my limited experience thus far.
Deadlifts alone are not enough unless the weight you are using is enough to put you into the running at a powerlifting competition…and even then direct training is going to produce more results.[/quote]
Even then, I’ve pulled 645, but don’t attribute my traps to DLs, but to heavy-ass shrugs. Until I bought some straps and really focused on shrugs (bringing them from 405x20 to 565x16 so far), I didn’t have very good trap development.
So I think it’s safe to say that even really heavy deadlifts won’t give you very good traps…[/quote]
Shit I’ll go as far as to say one lift won’t progress without the other moving also, at least in my limited experience thus far.[/quote]
Hell, as far as I know, maybe my lack of heavy shrugging was holding back my deadlifts, which is the reason for the recent increases in DL numbers. Who knows?
I think you need more frequency, and less volume. Getting in on doing things more, actually helps your connection or poundage, whatever you want. If I were you, I’d do something like 2-3 times a week, with about 2-3 back exercises each session. Not only that, but more frequency means practicing your lifts more which makes your lift poundage go up which will help your back grow. YOu should only do stuff like pullups/weighted pullups and variations, of course, deadlifts, and variation(s) of barbell row or dumbell row. You don’t realy need the shrugs. Deadlifting heavy will have filled in that for you.
You can cycle shrugs in and out of your routine as need be but to never shrug is a mistake. Unless of course less than maximum development is your goal.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I do behind the back shrugs in a smith. Leaning away from the machine. Any other type of shrug causes pain and doesnt allow me to get a good enough contraction. [/quote]
+1. I lean forward like a ski-jumper (not so much but you get the pic) so your arms are well behind you. Only way to do it. I feel a much more severe contraction from these than regular barbell shrugs off the front.
[quote]deadman123 wrote:
You don’t realy need the shrugs. Deadlifting heavy will have filled in that for you.[/quote]
is there an echo in here?
and can you explain why you want the OP to work back 2-3 times a week?
I hit back twice in an 8 day cycle. Directly on my back/bis day and indirectly on my shoulders day. I do shrugs on both of these days. I’m sore for the interim between these two days. Anybody please feel free to call me out on this, but I think 3 times in a 7 day cycle is a tad overboard.
Henceforth (and retroactively as well in this thread), everyone saying you only need deadlifts must post a picture of their own massive traps, in, say, a most muscular pose. If you’re not willing to post the pic, you don’t have the right to give the advice. The end.
Just to interrupt I’ve seen shrugs done so many different ways I’d be interested in details or maybe a video of what the best way to shrug is.
I alternate one week shrugging with barbell and one week with dumbbells. Sounds like maybe I should just stick to barbell though. I always do it in front. I find often when I lift my legs are moving a tad even sometimes coming up on my toes. I find I really have to focus to keep from using my legs on this particular move. Then what grip do you all use palms up, palms down, alternating? Y’all do them in Squat Rack or in Smith Machine?
Sounds like I might not be doing enough weight or reps. This was my last time doing it with Barbell:
Barbell Shrug
140 lb x 8
155 lb x 12
155 lb x 12
155 lb x 12
Should I push for 20 reps and much more weight? To compare I just hit 275 on my deadlift.
Then the other question is for Prof X or anyone who knows what are the HS High Rows and HS Mid Rows that you spoke of?
Enders Drift, i don’t know anything about the “best” trap exercise, but I know some stuff that has worked well for me.
Hang cleans
both DB and BB shrugs.
I like to lean a little forward and drag the BB up my quads to activate the lower traps more.
After a set of DB’s I’ll turn my wrists so that they’re facing forward, and try to use my traps to lift the weight away from my body, as if trying a lateral raise. you won’t get very far. hold for ten.
Do a light set of smith press bb rows, then: pick up a 45lb plate with one hand and use the other to single arm shrug the smith press bar. then alternate. The 45 gives you a nice static hold with one arm while you try to isolate the opposite side.
i know you didn’t ask me directly but shit, i figured it wouldn’t hurt to let you know what works for me.
So for the smith press one you’re saying to load it with like 150 lb or so for me. Do a set of 12. Then pick up a 45 lb plate in say my left hand and try to single arm shrug that 150 lb bar with the other one even though I probably won’t even move it? Then alternate? Or do you lower the weight of the barbell after the set to something like 70 lb (again for me)?
I stopped doing Hang Cleans for now because I’m trying to bulk and found Hang Cleans as well as Clean and Jerks (or Push Presses) in general burn me out like HIIT. My bulk is going pretty poorly as it is, can’t seem to keep the weight on. Finally got up to 165 last week but today the scale read 159 again. >:O
Any idea on what the HS Midrow and HS Highrow is?[/quote]
That machine I am sitting on in that recent picture is a Hammer Strength high row machine. That is what HS stands for. It is not like a regular plate stack machine and uses 45lbs plates.
note: HS shrugs are done with your hands at your side (as if you were hammer curling DB’s)
any idea of which is best or does only it only matter which can give you the greatest ROM and contraction?[/quote]
I started with a barbell and would recommend that for beginners (because they need to learn the technique). I now only use the hS shrug even though different models can hold a different number of plates.
This thread has already been hijacked so I don’t mind asking this question here.
What is the correct form for just standing barbell shrugs, without leg drive?
When I do them standing fully upright, since I have relatively short arms, I find that my genitalia get in the way. I almost need to just set my balls down on the bar and allow them to move up and down as I shrug, which as great as that sounds, is uncomfortable as hell. I have tried widening my legs out a bit but that can cause me some problems too because then my legs get in the way of my hands. I wonder if I tried leaning forward a bit if that might help. Anyone have a similar problem?
Rack Pulls are all the Trap work i can afford to do - i hold the top and try and shrug upwards.
Not as good as just doing Shrugs but it does the job.
You have some serious volume in there ! I would put forward you put Rack Pulls last so there’s nothing else to do and really just blow into it.
At the end of the day, you should know your body better than anyone, so change 1 exercise at a time if you feel it’s not working don’t nuke your program every other week.
Get a set template then adjust as needed, that’s the best program you can do.